Corvette With Swirls - NEED ADVICE PLEASE

[ScottB]

I find Vettes respond rather well to Menzerna SIP/Nano and my preferred polishes on Vette. The Wolfgang polishes are nice also.

 

[BarryK]

By you and Mike's accounts, it's sounding like I should be upgrading my DA to a Flex or XP. Are they that far superior to my G100/PC7335. Is the additional money I'm going to spend on a new DA really justified?

no, I'm not saying you need to upgrade your buffer. Your G100 can get the job done but as Mike suggested using the smaller size pads will help. On a DA, smaller size pads, with all else equal, will work more efficiently in terms of cut ability. If you were to have all else the same but compare two test spots and the only difference was smaller and larger sized pads - such as 6.5" and 5.5" pads, the smaller size pad would exhibit a greater ability to cut and make paint corrections. At the very least it would make the same level of corrections in fewer passes or in extreme cases achieve a major correction to a level that the larger pad may not be able to.
The trade off is that it simply takes a bit longer to do a vehicle because the smaller size pads are working a smaller area at a time.

As a hobbist or enthusiasts detailer a less powerful buffer such as your G100 isn't costing you any real disadvantage in making corrections to your paint and only costing you a bit of extra time that it may take to do the vehicle because you mayt need to take the time to do extra passes to get the same level of paint correction as a more powerful machine.

on the other hand the more powerful Flex that i use was worth the additional higher cost to purchase because i'm using it all the time and for me to save an hour or two or three on a vehicle means money. The faster I can complete a customers car the better. As a weekend hobbyist detailer the extra hour or two or so doesn't mean as much.

On the other hand forget what I just said because only YOU can determine how much your time is worth to you. If you are machine buffing your vette and maybe other cars in the family on a steady or regular basis that it very well may be worth it to you to upgrade your machine. If it's only the vette you work on and you maybe machine buff it once or twice a year than personally i think your current G100 will do you just fine.

 

[BarryK]

No problem. How did you address the stripe of paint in between the vinyl stripes? Also, what did you do to clean and protect the vinyl stripes?

on ANY car I work on that have any type of vinyl stripes, pinstripping tape, or even the 3M clearshield I use blue painters tape to tape these areas off.

There is usually no harm polishing or waxing over the stripping or pinstripping tape or the clearshield BUT sometimes the pad can catch an edge and lift the tape which is not good as once it's been pulled up almost never wants to stick again. Also, and more common and annoying is getting compound, polish and/or wax along the edges of the tape. Clean up on this can be time consuming so the time spent taping it off beforehand is usually well worth worth it.

 

[xxxc5]

no, I'm not saying you need to upgrade your buffer. Your G100 can get the job done but as Mike suggested using the smaller size pads will help. On a DA, smaller size pads, with all else equal, will work more efficiently in terms of cut ability. If you were to have all else the same but compare two test spots and the only difference was smaller and larger sized pads - such as 6.5" and 5.5" pads, the smaller size pad would exhibit a greater ability to cut and make paint corrections. At the very least it would make the same level of corrections in fewer passes or in extreme cases achieve a major correction to a level that the larger pad may not be able to.
The trade off is that it simply takes a bit longer to do a vehicle because the smaller size pads are working a smaller area at a time.

As a hobbist or enthusiasts detailer a less powerful buffer such as your G100 isn't costing you any real disadvantage in making corrections to your paint and only costing you a bit of extra time that it may take to do the vehicle because you mayt need to take the time to do extra passes to get the same level of paint correction as a more powerful machine.

on the other hand the more powerful Flex that i use was worth the additional higher cost to purchase because i'm using it all the time and for me to save an hour or two or three on a vehicle means money. The faster I can complete a customers car the better. As a weekend hobbyist detailer the extra hour or two or so doesn't mean as much.

On the other hand forget what I just said because only YOU can determine how much your time is worth to you. If you are machine buffing your vette and maybe other cars in the family on a steady or regular basis that it very well may be worth it to you to upgrade your machine. If it's only the vette you work on and you maybe machine buff it once or twice a year than personally i think your current G100 will do you just fine.

Thanks for taking the time to thoroughly clarify. I will give my G100 a try with 5.5" pads. I can always upgrade if I'm not satisfied. I believe the factory installed backing plate is 5.5". Is there any need to upgrade to another plate or is the Megs installed one fine?

 

[xxxc5]

on ANY car I work on that have any type of vinyl stripes, pinstripping tape, or even the 3M clearshield I use blue painters tape to tape these areas off.

There is usually no harm polishing or waxing over the stripping or pinstripping tape or the clearshield BUT sometimes the pad can catch an edge and lift the tape which is not good as once it's been pulled up almost never wants to stick again. Also, and more common and annoying is getting compound, polish and/or wax along the edges of the tape. Clean up on this can be time consuming so the time spent taping it off beforehand is usually well worth worth it.

That's what I figured. I presume when you detailed the Z16, you did the paint in the middle between the silver stripes on the hood, roof and trunk by hand. Did you use a specific applicator or procedure? Thanks!!

 

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

You are going to need a smaller backing plate if you are going to use the 5.5 onch pads. You will be just fine with the pc with those size pads. Like I said earlier I would suggest getting some 105 to remove your swirls then move in steps to your least aggressive polish and pad.

 

[DLB]

For the OP - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-swirl-remover-3-0-finishing-glaze-3-0-a.html

Found this helpful.

DLB

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

By you and Mike's accounts, it's sounding like I should be upgrading my DA to a Flex or XP. Are they that far superior to my G100/PC7335. Is the additional money I'm going to spend on a new DA really justified?

It just depends on what your time is worth to you. The new generation XP, ROP and 3401 all have substantially more power.

The longest part of any paint polishing session is the correction step or what I've always called the work step, (because that's when the job is real work, applying the wax is usually the fun and easy step), it takes the longest because you're removing paint off the car in an effort to level or flatten out the surface. The harder the paint the more difficult it is to remove small particles of it especially when using a tool with a free rotating spindle assemble.

With a Flex 3401 or a rotary buffer the correction step or work step goes much faster because these are both direct drive tools and have the ability to remove paint very quickly; that's a two-edged sword however as if you're not careful with a rotary you can make a mistake, with the Flex, it has more power but you're not going to have the same risk like you'll have with a rotary.

The time factor with a DA style polisher is related to you can't move the tool quickly over the surface to remove swirls, you have to move it slowly and only work a small section. For a Corvette with swirls, I would guesstimate about 45 minutes to an hour per panel to thoroughly remove the swirls. This is just a guesstimation because depth of scratch and skill level are huge factors not including your personal criteria for the definition of "good enough".

That's just the correction step, in most cases you'll have to re-polish each square inch again with less aggressive products and pads and the start applying your LSP, then after that the clean-up portion, removing tape, digging residue out of cracks, dressing tires and such.

Here's an article I did to show the difference between how long it takes to remove defects using a machine and how long it takes to do the same level of work by hand to just one half of a car hood. The times listed are very accurate and while I won't say "I'm good at this", I will say I've had a lot of experience at both working on clear coats by hand and by machine.

Man versus Machine



So it's just a time factor. Get some small pads and only tackle small sections at a time and when you move onto a new section be sure to overlap a little into the previous section.

Also... clean your pad often. I clean my pads after every other application of product either using a pad washer or the Clean your pad on the fly technique.

How to clean your foam pad on the fly

Cleaning Pads with the Flex 3401 and the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer



As your pads become saturated with product, the wet foam acts to absorb and dissipate the power from the tool without rotating the pad, again this means you're not removing swirls.

It's all about keeping the pad rotating...

As a hobbyist or enthusiasts detailer a less powerful buffer such as your G100 isn't costing you any real disadvantage in making corrections to your paint and only costing you a bit of extra time that it may take to do the vehicle because you may need to take the time to do extra passes to get the same level of paint correction as a more powerful machine.

On the other hand forget what I just said because only YOU can determine how much your time is worth to you.

Great points... :xyxthumbs:

 

[BarryK]

That's what I figured. I presume when you detailed the Z16, you did the paint in the middle between the silver stripes on the hood, roof and trunk by hand. Did you use a specific applicator or procedure? Thanks!!

nope, did everything by machine buffer except a few very tight areas such as tight around the sideview mirrors which the machine can't get close to so that I do by hand but the hood, roof, trunk and such was all done by machine after taping off areas that need protection

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I believe the factory installed backing plate is 5.5". Is there any need to upgrade to another plate or is the Megs installed one fine?

5" and 6" Backing Plates on 6.5" pads (Pictures to show safety margin)



Below are the new Lake Country Hydro-Tech 6.5 Inch Foam Pads with backing plates affixed to show the fitting comparison.


The backing plate on the Cyan Cutting Pad is the The Edge DA-500 Backing Plate, which measures 4 7/8" in diameter.

The backing plate on the Tangerine Polishing Pad is the 3M Hook-It 6" DA Backing Plate and it measures 5 7/8" in diameter.

This is to give you an idea as to how much safety margin of foam there is surrounding the 5" and 6" backing plates.

Also just to note, from a quick measuring of all the DA backing plates we care,

5" backing plate = 4 7/8" Diameter
6" backing plate - 5 7/8" Diameter

Exception
Meguiar's W68DA = 5 7/8" Diameter for the Velcro but there is a lip or rubber surrounding the Velcro portion that measures approximately 1/2" so the total Diameter of the backing plate is 6"

You can see the rubber lip surrounding the Velcro in the below picture,

This extra material is a matching design feature for their Softbuff 2.0 Pad System as the entire backing plate nestles inside a perimeter of foam.

I compiled the above because of a question that arose about which backing plate a person should get if they only wanted to get one backing plate but be able to use it for multiple pads. While it's always best to match the best backing plate size-wise to the pad being used, if you're only getting one backing plate whether with an initial purchase or as a replacement, here are two middle prices options,


The Edge DA-500 Backing Plate
Note the Edge DA-500 no longer looks like the image in the store.

Meguiar's W67DA

***Update***

Here's 5" backing plates on 5.5" pads to show how they fit. Shown are the Meguiar's W67DA and the Edge DA 500 on 5.5" Hydro-Tech pads and 5.5" CCS pads

5.5" Hydro-Tech pads

5.5" CCS pads

 

[xxxc5]

5" and 6" Backing Plates on 6.5" pads (Pictures to show safety margin)



Below are the new Lake Country Hydro-Tech 6.5 Inch Foam Pads with backing plates affixed to show the fitting comparison.


The backing plate on the Cyan Cutting Pad is the The Edge DA-500 Backing Plate, which measures 4 7/8" in diameter.

The backing plate on the Tangerine Polishing Pad is the 3M Hook-It 6" DA Backing Plate and it measures 5 7/8" in diameter.

This is to give you an idea as to how much safety margin of foam there is surrounding the 5" and 6" backing plates.

Also just to note, from a quick measuring of all the DA backing plates we care,

5" backing plate = 4 7/8" Diameter
6" backing plate - 5 7/8" Diameter

Exception
Meguiar's W68DA = 5 7/8" Diameter for the Velcro but there is a lip or rubber surrounding the Velcro portion that measures approximately 1/2" so the total Diameter of the backing plate is 6"

You can see the rubber lip surrounding the Velcro in the below picture,

This extra material is a matching design feature for their Softbuff 2.0 Pad System as the entire backing plate nestles inside a perimeter of foam.

I compiled the above because of a question that arose about which backing plate a person should get if they only wanted to get one backing plate but be able to use it for multiple pads. While it's always best to match the best backing plate size-wise to the pad being used, if you're only getting one backing plate whether with an initial purchase or as a replacement, here are two middle prices options,


The Edge DA-500 Backing Plate
Note the Edge DA-500 no longer looks like the image in the store.

Meguiar's W67DA

***Update***

Here's 5" backing plates on 5.5" pads to show how they fit. Shown are the Meguiar's W67DA and the Edge DA 500 on 5.5" Hydro-Tech pads and 5.5" CCS pads

5.5" Hydro-Tech pads

5.5" CCS pads

Mike, I see that there aren't many 5.5" pad choices to use for my G100 as suggested. Should I use the Hydro-Tech pads above or some CSS pads? Also, which color pads for which product. I will be using either WG TSR & FG or Menzerna SIP & Nano for correction and either DGPS or Four Star UPP for sealant. Thanks for all the time and knowledge you have devoted to my thread. Much appreciated!!