Moving from PC to Rotary, Flex or Makita?

darksparkz

darksparkz

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So I've got a PC7424, and looking to upgrade to a rotary to save me time, not for a business or anything, just for friend's cars and my own cars to save time and over using my PC.

I know the most recommended one for cross over is the Flex 3403, with a weight of 4.8lbs. While the Makita 9227 is the workhorse to get, with weight of 6.6lbs. 2lbs is a lot, but the PC has a weight of 5.75lbs. So in reality, if I get the Makita, it'd only be 1lb heavier then what I'm used to.

For almost the same price between the Makita 9227 and the Flex 3403, think I should get the Makita instead? The Makita is rated from 600-3000rpm, while the Flex is 1100-3700rpm.

I'm not so sure I'll really need the difference from 600-1100rpm for a slow speed, since I'd mainly use it for correction purposes anyways, and apply any sealant/wax by hand or just use very light pressure to spread out. What exactly is jeweling?

But maybe the higher speed of 3700rpm on the Flex would be useful for any extreme needs.

I'm leaning towards the Flex as a crossover rotary to use though since I won't be doing heavy volume work or anything, just something to save me lots of time as compared to a PC.

I currently have CCS 5.5" and Edge 2000 6" pads, I'll do more research on proper pads/backing plates and any polishes I should get instead.

I've looked at this thread which has helped a lot too:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-polisher/22554-first-rotary-flex-makita.html
 
darksparkz said:
So I've got a PC7424, and looking to upgrade to a rotary to save me time, not for a business or anything, just for friend's cars and my own cars to save time and over using my PC.

I know the most recommended one for cross over is the Flex 3403, with a weight of 4.8lbs. While the Makita 9227 is the workhorse to get, with weight of 6.6lbs. 2lbs is a lot, but the PC has a weight of 5.75lbs. So in reality, if I get the Makita, it'd only be 1lb heavier then what I'm used to.

For almost the same price between the Makita 9227 and the Flex 3403, think I should get the Makita instead? The Makita is rated from 600-3000rpm, while the Flex is 1100-3700rpm.

I'm not so sure I'll really need the difference from 600-1100rpm for a slow speed, since I'd mainly use it for correction purposes anyways, and apply any sealant/wax by hand or just use very light pressure to spread out. What exactly is jeweling?

But maybe the higher speed of 3700rpm on the Flex would be useful for any extreme needs.

I'm leaning towards the Flex as a crossover rotary to use though since I won't be doing heavy volume work or anything, just something to save me lots of time as compared to a PC.

I currently have CCS 5.5" and Edge 2000 6" pads, I'll do more research on proper pads/backing plates and any polishes I should get instead.

I've looked at this thread which has helped a lot too:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-polisher/22554-first-rotary-flex-makita.html
Click to expand...


Personally, I do not see any need for the lightweight things. The weight of my Porter cable 7428, NOT 7424, is right at around 8-9 lbs or just around the weight of the DeWalt 849 and I have yet to have any signs of fatigue except for my back. Can blame football and my height for that one... 2lbs is not that much weight and your body will become used to it. Besides, you can always use a good shoulder workout, right? I kid. It's not that bad at all.

There is nothing wrong with the Makita at all though. It is a very well built polisher.

The rotary will take alot of practice man. I've had mine for 2 months and have been practicing non stop on my spare hood and friends' cars. I just now felt comfortable working on my own vehicle with it yesterday and will be using it on customers' vehicles here soon. I still ahve alot to learn, but I'm to a point where I need to make that jump. Just as long as i tape tape everything off correctly, I should be good.

There is no need to venture upwards of 1800rpm. Anywhere past that and you're looking for trouble. If it's stubborn paint, pull out the PTG, get measurments, and pull out the wool pad. Simple as that. If it doesn't come out the first pass, take another PTG test and run the wool pad over it again.

You can either use your PC 7424 or your hands for sealant/wax applications.

Jeweling is when you take a finishing polish like 3M Ultrafine/Ultrafina (Blue pad) or Menzerna P085RD (Gray pad) and apply moderate pressure on the first couple of polishing passes, then slowly easing up on the pressure as you work the polish very well.

I use the Meguiar's W64 backing plate with the Kompressor pad with a few CCS pads all of which are 6" and 5.5", respectively. I also have a 3M Superbuff III wool pad with the 3M double sided adapter. I also have a set of 4" spot buff pads with a 4" PFW pad if I feel that I cannot get the 3M wool pad into a tight area.

I think that about covers it.
 
I'd look into more advanced methods used with DA polishers before going to a rotary. I've been using a rotary full time since the early 90's and since learning the true potential of the PC XP, I haven't used my rotary all that much. That, and time needed has nearly been reduced 50%.
 
David Fermani said:
I'd look into more advanced methods used with DA polishers before going to a rotary. I've been using a rotary full time since the early 90's and since learning the true potential of the PC XP, I haven't used my rotary all that much. That, and time needed has nearly been reduced 50%.
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Never the less, there is still much to be said about learning how to use a rotary. There are things a rotary can do (good and bad) that a DA cant touch. Given the same philosophy of correct pad and polish, you can do MARVELOUS things with a rotary at less dangerous RPMS with the correct pad and polish.

Take the training wheels off and master this more difficult machine. You will be happy you did. Not to mention its fun. Guns are dangerous too in the wrong hands but with the proper training and common sense its not the big bag scary devil most people make it out to be.
Just go slow.

As far as which one to get, flex makes a killer DA polisher. But their Rotary has NOTHING on the makita rotary. Thats the one I use and its like butta....Been using it non stop for the past month and purposefully ruining junk yard cars just to see what it takes to do so. And fearlessly polishing out BAD swirls and scratches until I got the feel for it. Its a good machine.

Have at it.
 
KRIS R said:
Never the less, there is still much to be said about learning how to use a rotary. There are things a rotary can do (good and bad) that a DA cant touch.
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Really? Do you mind explaining all the things a rotary can do that a DA can't? I can name a couple more things a rotary can't do. Feed back please
 
David Fermani said:
Really? Do you mind explaining all the things a rotary can do that a DA can't? I can name a couple more things a rotary can't do. Feed back please
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A DA can not generate heat for one. RPMs are more effective in removing defects than OPMs. A Rotary doesnt shake your arm to death and a rotary removes scratches better than a DA. I've removed scratches with my makita that my Menz and rough pads didnt with my UDM. Took a fraction of the time with the rotary. I can pull a boat with a VW beetle too but it would be a lot easier with a truck.

:nomore:
 
KRIS R said:
A DA can not generate heat for one. RPMs are more effective in removing defects than OPMs. A Rotary doesnt shake your arm to death and a rotary removes scratches better than a DA. I've removed scratches with my makita that my Menz and rough pads didnt with my UDM. Took a fraction of the time with the rotary.
Click to expand...

I don’t find your opinion shocking. If you experimented more with a DA, you might be very surprised. If you haven't achieved great results with a DA polisher, maybe you’re not using it as correctly as you think. I have/do and can tell you from almost 2 decades of using a rotary; you will get the same (or better) finish with a DA polisher. And in less time. All too many times will a rotary require 3, 4 or more steps to “finish out” properly. With a DA, you usually only need two buffing steps at the very most. And, you’ll NEVER have the fear of defect return or buffer trails to deal with.

Speed = Heat. You don’t want heat when removing defects (for many reasons). Heat is NOT your friend! Friction is the more efficient/effective way of leveling paint. If RPMs are so effective at removing defects, then by that rational, the faster you go the more defects will be leveled? If that were the case, you’d be burning through paint faster than defects. And from reading your recent posts you’ve been experimenting and finding out what heat can do:

KRIS R said:
After practicing on some random junkers with the rotary I find that i risk burning paint trying to eliminate or diminish deep scratches. ESPECIALLY on painted plastic. 2 bumpers at the junkyard I melted a bit of paint using a mild polish, a yellow pad and 1500 rpms with the rotary.
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Using a DA with the precise combination of pressure (not too much), product and movement allows you to carefully level defects in a more uniform manner. Uniform by way of “Dual Action” which means spinning and orbiting on a flat plane; removing paint (defects) in a parallel/equal fashion to the paint’s surface. You can’t duplicate that with the circular motion of a rotary. Your pad needs to be properly primed and constantly clean. If not, the buildup of removed paint will in effect clog the pad's pores and reduce the effectiveness of the correction. I hear/read people constantly not following this key step and in turn they fail at both leveling the defects and leaving the least amount of micro marring of the finish.


KRIS R said:
I can pull a boat with a VW beetle too but it would be a lot easier with a truck.
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And you wouldn’t want to use a chain saw to prepare your Thanksgiving Day Turkey dinner either. :hungry:
 
Fermani I dont wish to have my words picked apart and have the meaning re-purposed. And I certainly dont want to engage in a pissing match on AG. So I think I will refrain from any more debate with you.

Thanks
 
David Fermani said:
I'd look into more advanced methods used with DA polishers before going to a rotary. I've been using a rotary full time since the early 90's and since learning the true potential of the PC XP, I haven't used my rotary all that much. That, and time needed has nearly been reduced 50%.
Click to expand...

Nearly 50% my butt. :nomore: bs'ing. The rotary is the best tool and that is that.:dblthumb2:
 
KRIS R said:
Fermani I dont wish to have my words picked apart and have the meaning re-purposed. And I certainly dont want to engage in a pissing match on AG. So I think I will refrain from any more debate with you.
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I don't see David doing what you imply, plus "knowing" him (from his posts over the years) he is not the kind that does so.

What I _do_ see though is gross inaccuracies in your post and facts in his. If he didn't post that first I would have been saying exactly same thing.
 
ZoranC said:
I don't see David doing what you imply, plus "knowing" him (from his posts over the years) he is not the kind that does so.

What I _do_ see though is gross inaccuracies in your post and facts in his. If he didn't post that first I would have been saying exactly same thing.
Click to expand...

To each his own. I will use my rotary when I please and or my DA and I will not give a customers car back until it is absolutely perfect which is what Ive done since I was 19. (13 years ago) My rotary is a time saving tool for me. I get the heavy stuff with that and finish up with my DA. However you do it is fine by me but I have shaved an hour or more off my polishing time with my Rotary/Pad/ polishes and so far Im happy and so are my customers.

Thanks
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Nearly 50% my butt. :nomore: bs'ing. The rotary is the best tool and that is that.:dblthumb2:
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I challenge you to a "buff off" when you come down here!!!! :buffing: :pc7424:

I say we go at it on Adam's Vette after shotgunning a 12 pack!!!! :cheers:

I'll put $$ that you'll be doing this: :surrender:

And then this: :urtheman:
 
KRIS R said:
To each his own. I will use my rotary when I please and or my DA and I will not give a customers car back until it is absolutely perfect which is what Ive done since I was 19. (13 years ago) My rotary is a time saving tool for me. I get the heavy stuff with that and finish up with my DA. However you do it is fine by me but I have shaved an hour or more off my polishing time with my Rotary/Pad/ polishes and so far Im happy and so are my customers.
Click to expand...

:iagree: That's totally fine by me. Keep it up if it's working for you!
 
David Fermani said:
I challenge you to a "buff off" when you come down here!!!! :buffing: :pc7424:

I say we go at it on Adam's Vette after shotgunning a 12 pack!!!! :cheers:

I'll put $$ that you'll be doing this: :surrender:

And then this: :urtheman:
Click to expand...

Since I don't drink and I did shotgun 12 beers you would win. If I don't drink then I would make you look bad and I would have to take you off one of the top detailers in FL and mix you in with some of your favorites-lol. I am coming down to to put holograms in Adams's vette so come over so you can help me get them out.
 
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