Help! Will I remove all of the scratches and swirls with WG TSR?

spike

spike

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Hey everyone, I am now in the process of polishing my first car with a flex 3401. I have WG TSR, FG, and DGPS. I have performed my test spot on the trunk lid, and I have gone over the area like 3 times with a CCS orange pad, at about 5 mins total buffing time on speed 5 each time, with slow hand movements and overlapping passes, and I can't get all of the scratches and swirls out!! Do I need something stronger, like Megs 105/205? I guess my main question is, what can I expect from the TSR? I am getting some very clear paint, and it's really looking nice, but there are some scratches that aren't coming out. Does the TSR get most of them, then the FG gets the rest?
 
BTW, it's a 1999 toyota camry XLE in sage grey paint color. It's so hard to take pics of the swirls! I can't seem to capture them. But, I guess y'all know what swirls look like...the TSR is getting most of the swirls, just not all of the scratches. I thought I heard somewhere that toyota paint was kind of on the softer side, and not hard like say an infiniti...
 
Since the car is 10 years old, there might be some deep scratches in the paint that TSR cannot remove.
 
Did you place a tape line down?


Here's why this is POWERFUL when doing a test spot.


It shows you the DISTINCT difference between before and after results. And the reason this is important is because you may be removing zillions of lighter or shallow below surface defects, (swirls, scratches, water spots), but not all the RIDS and that's normal for a DA Polisher.

It's also good enough for most people because removing ALL the defects means removing all the paint it takes to level the surface.

By using a tape line it's easier to see how much of a true effect you're making to the paint as "we" tend to forget how bad the paint started out when the difference between the before and after is some fuzzy area with no distinct line.

I always use a tape line for test spots for myself for for a class or a video. It only takes a few seconds and I aways have painter's tape with me.


If the TSR isn't working fast enough or effective enough for you then get a more aggressive product like the UC or M105, it's always good to have a few tools in the tool box for this project or for the next project.



:)
 
Thanks Mike. I did not put a tape line down (I guess I should have), but I eyeballed the difference between the finished side and the unfinished side. What I saw was that the paint was definitely clearer and more polished, thus most of the swirls were removed. What was left was probably RIDS. I guess the TSR is doing it's job as far as removing swirls and making the paint look clearer. I tried UC, but it didn't seem to make that much of a diffference, so I stuck with TSR. I am happy with how glossy and smooth the paint is now, but I guess I had such "high hopes" of getting 100% defect removal my first time polishing...oh, I'm such a newbie!!

But, is this what you would expect from the TSR? Clarity and smoothness in the paint, but doesn't remove all the RIDS? That makes sense now. And yes, I DO need to order more stuff for my reserves in case one product doesn't do the job...
 
Let me just ask this question in a different way...is WG TSR capable of removing RIDS? Or is it just not aggressive enough? This was my first time polishing, and I probably didn't put enough downward pressure on the flex during the TSR polishing phase due to inexperience (and fear of screwing up!). But if I had put the right pressure, would the TSR have done the job? It did a great job of removing the swirls from the clear, but it did not touch the RIDS.
 
TSR is not as aggressive as a true compound. If you want to go after the deeper swirls and scratches then try a more aggressive compound. There's so many terms for products and no standard definitions that it's hard to say exactly what products like TSR are except to refer to them as polishes or cleaner/polishes or swirl mark removers.


spike said:
Let me just ask this question in a different way...is WG TSR capable of removing RIDS?
Click to expand...
The answer to your question is sort of no and sort of yes.

For everyone reading this into the future...

Removing swirls and scratches means removing a portion of the top layer of paint, this in effect levels the surface. In most cases here's what will happen, the shallow swirls and scratches will disappear. The scratches that remain are deeper and will stick out like a sore thumb BECAUSE the shallow zillions of lighter swirls and scratches that all over the surface acted to camouflage or mask the deeper scratches.

Make sense?

Now Spike's question is what will it take to remove the deeper scratches or the RIDS

RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...

The answer is you can use a more aggressive product, you can use a more aggressive pad or both. You can also use a more aggressive tool depending upon what you're using up to this point.

Keep in mind that removing deeper scratches mean removing more paint so at some pint you need to make a value judgment as to how badly you want a show car finish or whether or not you can be happy with the results you've already achieved and live with the deeper defects that remain. If you car is a daily driver and you plan on keeping it for a long time then you might want to live with the deeper defects, if the car is a garage queen that you only drive occasionally and it deserves a finish worthy of it's marque, then continue working on the paint.


:)
 
Thanks Mike. I really don't want to over-thin the clear coat, so I appreciate your input. It seems like I should get Megs 105/205, and if the 105 doesn't touch the RIDS, then I will stop trying to get them out because they are just too deep. I will post some pics soon and a write up of my first detailing experience using a polisher for the very first time. The claying alone made the paint soo much smoother and cleaner. My piece of clay was so dirty!
 
spike said:
I will post some pics soon and a write up of my first detailing experience using a polisher for the very first time.
Click to expand...

Looking forward to reading your write-up, I'm confident it will inspire others to follow in your footsteps.

spike said:
The claying alone made the paint soo much smoother and cleaner. My piece of clay was so dirty!
Click to expand...

It's amazing how the clay will reveal to your eyes just how contaminated your car's paint can become over time.


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
TSR is not as aggressive as a true compound. If you want to go after the deeper swirls and scratches then try a more aggressive compound. There's so many terms for products and no standard definitions that it's hard to say exactly what products like TSR are except to refer to them as polishes or cleaner/polishes or swirl mark removers.



The answer to your question is sort of no and sort of yes.

For everyone reading this into the future...

Removing swirls and scratches means removing a portion of the top layer of paint, this in effect levels the surface. In most cases here's what will happen, the shallow swirls and scratches will disappear. The scratches that remain are deeper and will stick out like a sore thumb BECAUSE the shallow zillions of lighter swirls and scratches that all over the surface acted to camouflage or mask the deeper scratches.

Make sense?

Now Spike's question is what will it take to remove the deeper scratches or the RIDS

RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...

The answer is you can use a more aggressive product, you can use a more aggressive pad or both. You can also use a more aggressive tool depending upon what you're using up to this point.

Keep in mind that removing deeper scratches mean removing more paint so at some pint you need to make a value judgment as to how badly you want a show car finish or whether or not you can be happy with the results you've already achieved and live with the deeper defects that remain. If you car is a daily driver and you plan on keeping it for a long time then you might want to live with the deeper defects, if the car is a garage queen that you only drive occasionally and it deserves a finish worthy of it's marque, then continue working on the paint.


:)
Click to expand...

Mike,

Would a move to a more aggressive pad (yellow) or a more aggressive polish/compound (megs 105) make more sense as a first step for Spike and others like me? I guess what all of us want is safe and fast correction, which may be an oxymoron.

From personal experience, the orange CCS pad and TSR took a lot of work to clear the paint on my BMW. Granted, it was the first time with a PCXP and I ended up doing 2-3 circuits with TSR before going to the FG.

I ended up with a very nice finish after TSR and FG3, but I've wondered if it would have been much faster and easier to use something like megs 105 with an orange pad or to just pick up a yellow pad for the future.
 
I would try to avoid yellow pads, they are like trying to polish with a brick. In my experience with TSR and 105, yes 105 is going to correct a lot faster (and more defects)...I have done some pretty heavy correction with 105 and have never needed any pad more aggresive than a ccs orange or a cyan hydrotech.
 
DARK HORSE said:
I would try to avoid yellow pads, they are like trying to polish with a brick. In my experiecnce with TSR and 105, yes 105 is going to correct a lot faster (and more defects)...I have done some pretty heavy correction with 105 and have never needed any pad more aggresive than a ccs orange or a cyan hydrotech.
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That was my guess. What do you use to finish after the 105?
 
Kurt_s said:
Mike,

but I've wondered if it would have been much faster and easier to use something like megs 105 with an orange pad or to just pick up a yellow pad for the future.
Click to expand...

DARK HORSE said:
In my experience with TSR and 105, yes 105 is going to correct a lot faster (and more defects)...I have done some pretty heavy correction with 105 and have never needed any pad more aggressive than a CCS orange or a cyan hydro-tech.
Click to expand...

Good summary... M105 is a true compound, TSR is a light cutting polish, both have their place for defect removal.


Kurt_s said:
That was my guess. What do you use to finish after the 105?
Click to expand...

Most people using M105 follow with M205, they are kind of the SMAT Tag Team, one product finishes and tags the other to enter the ring and finish the job.

I've had very good luck with M205 with both rotary buffers and DA Polishers.


Used M205 on Nate Trueman's Batmobile when it M205 was still a "Lab Sample", both Nick Chapman and I were completely impressed with it before it even went into production.

Cutting with M105 a wool pad with a rotary buffer
RotaryBufferBatmobile01.jpg



After M205 with a foam finishing pad on a rotary buffer...
RotaryBufferBatmobile02.jpg
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Good summary... M105 is a true compound, TSR is a light cutting polish, both have their place for defect removal.




Most people using M105 follow with M205, they are kind of the SMAT Tag Team, one product finishes and tags the other to enter the ring and finish the job.

I've had very good luck with M205 with both rotary buffers and DA Polishers.


Used M205 on Nate Trueman's Batmobile when it M205 was still a "Lab Sample", both Nick Chapman and I were completely impressed with it before it even went into production.

Cutting with M105 a wool pad with a rotary buffer
RotaryBufferBatmobile01.jpg



After M205 with a foam finishing pad on a rotary buffer...
RotaryBufferBatmobile02.jpg
Click to expand...
Holy Cow, Batman!! Now that car brings back some memories.

I will stick to my plan of staying with less aggressive pads and pick up a DA suitable compound like 105 for problems. Thanks!
 
Kurt_s said:
That was my guess. What do you use to finish after the 105?
Click to expand...

I follow 105 with 205, and for a show car finish on dark colors I follow 205 with Menz 85rd. (Remember you can vary the cut of 105 by pad selection. Less aggressive pad, less aggressive cut)...However as stated many times, always try the least aggressive combo (polish/pad) first, and work up to what you find works best to accomplish you goals.
 
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