Advice on Products for White Paint, Newbie

[JayG30]

Hello,

Hopefully this is an appropriate place to ask the assortment of questions I have. I'll be honest and say that I've been overwhelmed with the amount of information about detailing cars and am pretty much a newbie. I've read quite a bit around here and other places, but still feel I don't know what to do and am afraid I'll end up just wasting my money if I don't ask first.

I'm looking at getting some stuff to take car of a white 1997 Toyota Supra. From what I've read this is a single stage paint systems. From what I've read a single stage white should be pretty hard. The car is driven pretty daily. I do have some 3 stage Meguires products, clay, detailer spray, MF cloths, etc. from when I use to do things by hand. My guess in the product won't work with a machine polisher.

I pretty much have decided I want to get the new Griots Garage 6" DA polisher, unless someone wants to talk me out of it, lol. What I really want to do is remove some pretty bad swirls from the paint. I was going to go with M105 & M205 combo, but than again I don't know much about other product and just have seen a lot of people using these and they seem to be a favorite. Pads I really have no clue, just have heard that people recommend 5.5" pads for better correction and that they like flat over CCS pads.

Now I'm on a budget, and seeing as this is a new venture for me I want to make sure I enjoy it and can produce decent results before I dive head first into things. So I guess I'm looking for advice for product and pads. Will M105/205 be a good choice or should I look at something else for my needs? What types of pads should I get to remove swirls from a hard white paint? And any other advice? I'm all ears.

Thanks.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Since this is your first post here,

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:

Hello,


I pretty much have decided I want to get the new Griots Garage 6" DA polisher, unless someone wants to talk me out of it, lol. What I really want to do is remove some pretty bad swirls from the paint. I was going to go with M105 & M205 combo,

Hang on for a few seconds...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

If you get the Griot's Garage ROP then add a couple boxes of the 6.5" Surbuf pads for use with the M105, read this thread,

Surbuf MicroFinger Buffing Pads now at Autogeek!


Surbuf R Series 4 Inch Buffing Pads 2 Pack
Surbuf R Series 5.5 Inch Buffing Pads 2 Pack
Surbuf R Series 6.5 Inch Buffing Pads 2 Pack

We were shooting a video on how to Machine Damp Sand using Meguiar's Unigrit #3000 Foam Finishing Discs and then how to remove your sanding marks using a rotary buffer and took a moment to show that if you choose, you can also use a DA Polisher with Surbuf MicroFinger buffing Pads to remove shallow sanding marks like those left by the #3000 Unigrit Foam Finishing Discs and a compound.

Just to note, for years now, the question about whether the you can use a DA Polisher, like the Porter Cable 7424XP, the Meguiar's G110v2 or the Griot's Garage ROP to remove sanding marks out of modern clear coat paint has been a hot topic.

While there are a number of factors involved that affect a "Yes" or "No" answer, generally speaking you can remove light or shallow sanding marks out of clear coat finished using a DA Style Polisher with their Free Rotating Spindle Assemblies for drive mechanisms, you just need to use the right pads, products and techniques. Top Coat Hardness is a huge factor when it comes to determining whether or not a DA Style Polisher can remove sanding marks and this will vary between cars.

While the most effective way is still by using a direct drive, rotary buffer with a cutting pad and a compound, especially if you sanding down an entire car, we demonstrated using the Surbuf MicroFinger Buffing Pads with a SMAT product like M105 you can easily remove a controlled sanding mark pattern, in this example, #3000 Unigrit Foam Finishing Papers by Meguiar's were used. Autogeek will have the new Unigrit Foam Finishing Discs very soon. Stay tuned for an upcoming article on this topic.

Surbuf MicroFinger Buffing Pads

And then get a few polishing foam pads and a few finishing foam pads, both in 6.5" for the backing plate on the GG, get either CCS or LC Flat Pads, both styles will work.


If it's single stage it will be hard and you will see white paint coming off. In fact you should be able to take a piece of dark cloth or any medium to dark cloth and go out and rub on the paint with your "Paint Cleaner" and if it's a single stage you'll see white paint coming off onto the cloth. If all you see is the color of the product you're using then it's likely clear coated.

This can be a hard test to do if your paint cleaner is white in color but if you have the old Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner I think it's kind of greenish brownish, if it's the most updated formula it will be white. Just do the best that you can.

With harder paints, just shrink the size of your work area down and spend more time on each section.



Call customer Care and they can help you get the right pads so you'll have everything you need....

1-800-869-3011


Lots of information here,

How-To Articles
How-To Videos


Also, this is new and the link below goes to a page with everything included on the DVD

Mike Phillips' Principles of Machine Polishing

Hope that helsp...

 

[JayG30]

Thanks Mike!

You certainly do respond with complete and insightful posts all the time. I appreciate the time you take to respond.

I did come across the Surbuf pads in my reading. I remember some people mentioning these are pretty aggressive pads, is that correct?
Is this a better approach than using an orange LC pad? Or perhaps how do they compare?
I'm pretty sure that if these pads can remove wet sand marks they will be able to handle the swirls I have.

So you don't feel that I need to bother purchasing a 5" backing plate and get 5.5" pads, at least for the time being?

Finally, is there any reason I should get something other than the M105/205 combo?

I'm going to go out and see what I can find out about the white paint being a single coat. This car was produced from 93-98 in the US. I know that the black paint is definitely a single stage because I have the same 1997 Supra in black as well. It's single stage (paint comes off) and is VERY soft. I believe the red paint is single stage as well.

 

[JayG30]

Checked it out and it is indeed a single stage white.

The paint code is Super White 040 (Acrylic enamel single stage paint).
It's used on a range of Toyota and Lexus cars, even recent ones.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I did come across the Surbuf pads in my reading. I remember some people mentioning these are pretty aggressive pads, is that correct?

Is this a better approach than using an orange LC pad? Or perhaps how do they compare?

I'm pretty sure that if these pads can remove wet sand marks they will be able to handle the swirls I have.

With the M105 you can stop as soon as you see the defects are gone, you can control how aggressive the cutting action is by pressure and time spent on a single section. They cut very well but the do leave micro-marring but so do most foam cutting pads, especially when used aggressively.

So you don't feel that I need to bother purchasing a 5" backing plate and get 5.5" pads, at least for the time being?

Personal preference. The GG has lots of power and can rotate a 6.5" pad easily if the pad is held flat to the surface. You'll have more correction power with smaller pads of any type.

Finally, is there any reason I should get something other than the M105/205 combo?

I'm a big fan of testing the least aggressive product needed to get the job done so in a perfect world you would have a number of product to try. 105 is a very aggressive cutting compound compared to most compounds, it's rated at being able to pull #1200 grit sanding marks on fresh paint.

#4 in the XMT Line is probably more aggressive, it's like liquid sand paper and very effective for serious correction work.

The entire XMT line, (4 correction products ), would give you 4 product to test and use.

Mother's compounds and foam pad glaze offer great cutting and polishing ability, I've only used the compounds a little with a DA but had had good luck. The Foam Pad Glaze does work well with a DA for swirl removal.

The Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover is actually a pretty aggressive cutting product so that's an option.

You said you were on a budget and you listed M105/M205 so I didn't stray from your original interest...


Heck, with good technique anything we sell will work...

 

[JayG30]

Heck, with good technique anything we sell will work...

In my reading that seems to be the major takeaway, and I'll be sure to practice and get the technique down.

As for the M105/205 combo, I mentioned it because it seems to be pretty popular. I'm certainly not against something else.
For instance I've also seen a lot of mention of the "Pinnacle Twins" and "Wolfgang Twins" but to this point didn't know how it would compare to the M105/205 combo.

The budget issue isn't really because I don't have the money or being against spending the money. Basically I have to start somewhere and I figure I should start off with some good quality products that will give me decent results and allow me to figure out if this is something I can do and am willing to pursue. I have a LOT of hobbies (including cars) and eventually they all end up tearing holes in my pockets. I'm sure if all goes well this will end up being the same and I'll end up with TONS of products. We all have to start somewhere though.

 

[JayG30]

Hey Mike!

Hopefully I'm not being to much of an annoyance.

I feel like I have a good idea about everything I want to do expect for one area...pads.

Above you recommended a combination of the Surbuf pads with some foam polishing and finishing pads.
I'm curious why this would be better than just using a foam cutting pad, like an orange pad (or even tangerine hydro-tech)?

I was originally looking at just going with a 6 pack of LC flats to start with, 2 orange, white, and blacks.
Than from there decide if I like them or if I wanted to try something different like the hydro-tech or CCS pads.
I know 6 pads isn't much for doing a whole car, but I figured it would give me an idea if I like them before buying a lot of them.
I'll have to do some on the fly cleaning and it will take longer I'm sure.

It would seem that instead you would advise replacing orange pads with Surbuf and adding some foam white, black, and blue pads?
Also, is white considered a "polishing" pad?