Headlight Help!!

Kilgore

Kilgore

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Has anyone ever seen the INSIDE of brand new headlights look like this? Does anyone know what it is or if anything can be done to fix it?? It's on a 2011 Audi Q5 w/ 500 miles and is definitely on the inside of the casings and also on the lamps. I noticed it about a week after I got it. It's only visible with the lights on. Everything is crystal clear with the lights off. I took it to the dealer and told them it looks like a manufacturing defect to me and would like them replaced under warranty. They said they checked with Audi USA who supposedly told them it was perfectly normal and that they ALL do that. I kinda doubt it! After hearing their answer, I'm just a little PO'd. The only good part is that I don't have to look at them at night while I'm driving and you can't see it during the day. Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated. Here's some pics, ugly as they may be.


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Feed back please
 
Forgot to mention, I seriously doubt it's condensation. The residue hasn't changed shape or appearance since I first saw it. Also, the humidity here in Colorado is about 15%.
 
That looks like haze on the inside of the lens and they should replace them under warranty.
 
Looks like my 2008 A6. Maybe I'll try for a warranty replacement.
 
dougaross said:
Looks like my 2008 A6. Maybe I'll try for a warranty replacement.
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Not a bad idea, this is BS! I found a logo on top of the lights, they're made by Koito Mfg. in Japan. I just sent them an email w/ pics asking if this is "normal" and if "they're all like that" like the dealer said, or should they be replaced. I'll post their reply... if I get one. :mad:
 
its a manufacturing residue or failure to properly clean the lens before assembly. short of taking it apart and cleaning the inside no there is no way to clean it. you may be able to remove the projection housing though. i would remove the entire headlight and then remove the projector and then fill it with cleaner and slosh it around, empty it and leave it to dry. run a hair dryer in it possibly.


that is, if you cant get a warranty repair. I doubt the dealer will do anything those new audi lights run about $900-1800 a piece for the housing.
 
Headlights are vented for ambient temp changes. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but some manufacturers have put out Service Bulletins that address condensation in the lights and state it's perfectly normal. If it's dried condensation and no more is getting in, then I'm sure it won't change shape or severity. I know it's an eyesore to you and quite frankly, it would probably bother me too, especially on a new vehicle. Since it may be a normal condition, the headlight housing is, technically, working as intended by the manufacturer. You could try sloshing some cleaner around like someone else posted but be weary about it leaving residue and making it worse or it damaging the paint or "chrome" on the inside. I've heard the "chrome" paint is very delicate and can easily peel. If you find a solution, let us know.
 
Since its new warranty it, if you complain enough any respectable audi dealer will resolve the issue.
 
g35_coupe said:
Headlights are vented for ambient temp changes. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but some manufacturers have put out Service Bulletins that address condensation in the lights and state it's perfectly normal. If it's dried condensation and no more is getting in, then I'm sure it won't change shape or severity. I know it's an eyesore to you and quite frankly, it would probably bother me too, especially on a new vehicle. Since it may be a normal condition, the headlight housing is, technically, working as intended by the manufacturer. You could try sloshing some cleaner around like someone else posted but be weary about it leaving residue and making it worse or it damaging the paint or "chrome" on the inside. I've heard the "chrome" paint is very delicate and can easily peel. If you find a solution, let us know.
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Thanks very much for the input. Dried condensation makes a lot of sense considering it came from Germany on a ship and was delivered to the Port of Houston, talk about humidity! I'm not going to even attempt cleaning them, probably screw something up even worse. I'm going to wait for a reply from the Mfg., but as you pointed out, they (and the dealer) are more than likey going to stick to their stories and say it's normal. I'm not done fighting this yet but it looks like I'm SOL.
Thanks again, it's good to hear from someone who knows headlights :xyxthumbs:
 
Kilgore said:
Not a bad idea, this is BS! I found a logo on top of the lights, they're made by Koito Mfg. in Japan. I just sent them an email w/ pics asking if this is "normal" and if "they're all like that" like the dealer said, or should they be replaced. I'll post their reply... if I get one. :mad:
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Ok, so here's the reply from Koito, end of story. They should change their motto to Caveat Emptor!

From: Jon Bridge [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:27 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Koito headlight issue - 2011 Audi Q5

Dear Mr.....
Firstly thank you for taking time to raise this issue. I have now had a response from our technical people.

This type of “foggy“ appearance is normal for HID Headlamps and is caused by light transmission through the specific plastic material and is not always visible from all angles.
A warranty replacement is not recommended in this instance.

Once again thank you for contacting Koito and I hope this answers your question.

Best Regards

Jon Bridge

Commercial General Manager
Koito Europe
Tel. +44 (0) 1905 79 0928 (Direct)
Fax +44 (0) 1905 79 4466
 
Find out who preps the Audi cars for the big international car shows. I'm sure that the company wouldn't want to show the cars with headlight housings like that. They may have a technique to clean the insides of the headlight housing.

To me, it looks like either condensation or a chemical hazing from the plastic's solvents gassing off but thats a SWAG.
 
Hum..... So their attitude is that because "They all have the same issue" doesn't mean there is anything wrong with their manufacturing process??? Sure glad they are not the manufactures behind the Toyota's acceleration problem. After all, if all the models have the same "problem", it must not be a PROBLEM! I've worked in the banking business for many years and if every account was missing 5 dollars at the end of the month, what do you think the account holders response would be if we were to tell them, "Oh, don't worry about it, it happens to every one of our accounts so then it really isn't a problem"?????
 
Midnight1700 said:
Hum..... So their attitude is that because "They all have the same issue" doesn't mean there is anything wrong with their manufacturing process??? Sure glad they are not the manufactures behind the Toyota's acceleration problem. After all, if all the models have the same "problem", it must not be a PROBLEM! I've worked in the banking business for many years and if every account was missing 5 dollars at the end of the month, what do you think the account holders response would be if we were to tell them, "Oh, don't worry about it, it happens to every one of our accounts so then it really isn't a problem"?????
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I don't think they are implying that a serious defect is okay if all of their vehicles did it. They are saying this is a normal condition and most, if not all, cars may do this. It's a little unfair to compare a hazy lens with almost 100% of intended light output against an accelerator problem which could lead to accidents or death. Back to the Audi... does this shorten the life of the bulb or lens housing? No. Does it impair the light output? No. Is it an eyesore? Yes. If manufacturers recalled every single product with a cosmetic flaw, most of them would go out of business. I would like to see he get his light fixed but he's going to have a very difficult time getting most dealerships to cover it.
 
From a manufacturing point of view, to allow a product to leave the assembly line with a "Known Defect" is an indication of their poor quality. Especially when the majority of other automobile manufactures do not have this problem. It doesn't have to be a "Safety" issue to be a defect. Audi has been know for building quality vehicles for many years, why would they jeopardize their reputation on something that would be a relatively simple fix in their manufacturing process? If they don't know who to fix the problem, maybe they should call Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Honda, or who ever to find out how???
 
g35_coupe said:
I don't think they are implying that a serious defect is okay if all of their vehicles did it. They are saying this is a normal condition and most, if not all, cars may do this. It's a little unfair to compare a hazy lens with almost 100% of intended light output against an accelerator problem which could lead to accidents or death. Back to the Audi... does this shorten the life of the bulb or lens housing? No. Does it impair the light output? No. Is it an eyesore? Yes. If manufacturers recalled every single product with a cosmetic flaw, most of them would go out of business. I would like to see he get his light fixed but he's going to have a very difficult time getting most dealerships to cover it.
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I generally agree with this commentary.

From a headlight performance standpoint, light output to the road should be well within design specs. Since the housing is clear except when the lights are on, it's really hard to fault the vendor.

That being said, there may be a way to clean the inside of the housing but it will probably a process that a specialist used for showcasing the cars for auto shows or commercials.
 
g35_coupe said:
I don't think they are implying that a serious defect is okay if all of their vehicles did it. They are saying this is a normal condition and most, if not all, cars may do this. It's a little unfair to compare a hazy lens with almost 100% of intended light output against an accelerator problem which could lead to accidents or death. Back to the Audi... does this shorten the life of the bulb or lens housing? No. Does it impair the light output? No. Is it an eyesore? Yes. If manufacturers recalled every single product with a cosmetic flaw, most of them would go out of business. I would like to see he get his light fixed but he's going to have a very difficult time getting most dealerships to cover it.
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I would say it does imapair light output. How could it not? I guess if the paint peeled off the hood of most Audis this would just be a cosmetic flaw and not worthy of repair.
 
Kurt_s said:
I generally agree with this commentary.

From a headlight performance standpoint, light output to the road should be well within design specs. Since the housing is clear except when the lights are on, it's really hard to fault the vendor.
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If this is ONLY when the light is on and the lens is completely invisible, then I'm thinking of two more possibilities. Keep in mind I'm only speculating here. It may be a spot on the back of the projector (like hand puppets with a flashlight). Cleaning the projector would correct this after the housing is opened up and the projector assembled is disassembled. Another possibility is something in the polycarbonate got embedded during the molding process which refracts light into a hazy or blotchy pattern.

dougaross said:
I would say it does impair light output. How could it not? I guess if the paint peeled off the hood of most Audis this would just be a cosmetic flaw and not worthy of repair.
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I think any impairment of light output is negligible here. Again, you're talking about two totally different things. Paint or clear coat is designed to keep the body panel protected. If it begins to peel, it is not doing what the manufacturer intended it to do. If a lens is slightly hazy, the bulb is putting out light on the road, at the right level, with the correct brightness, and the lens is keeping the elements (less any NORMAL condensation) outside of the projector housing, it is doing everything the manufacturer intended.
 
If necessary contact Audi of America to resolve the problem. I hate when dealers blow you off on a brand new vehicle that should be perfect.
 
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