Wolfgang DGPS 3.0 amount to use

[indianaryan]

I detailed my car using a Griot's ROP for the first time over the weekend. This is my first experience using a machine to detail my car. For applying the wax, I used the red LC CCS pad. I've read the how-to on how much product to apply to the pad, which I followed, but I'm not sure if that's the right amount to use in the case of this sealant.

When I've applied the sealant before by hand, it was a bit more simple. It was easy to see the product on the surface as I applied it (maybe I was applying it too thick). By machine, it was tough to see where I had gone over. I could barely see the product on the surface as I made my passes. It seems like the pad is absorbing too much product, and not applying it to the surface of the car.

Then again, maybe I did everything right. When I did the swipe test to see if the sealant was ready to be removed, I could clearly see the layer of sealant I had applied.

I guess I'm asking this:

1. Am I using the right pad?
2. Am I using the right amount?
3. Do I need to apply more pressure?
4. How thin of a coat is too thin?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

This is my first experience using a machine to detail my car. For applying the wax, I used the red LC CCS pad. I've read the how-to on how much product to apply to the pad, which I followed, but I'm not sure if that's the right amount to use in the case of this sealant.

I could barely see the product on the surface as I made my passes. It seems like the pad is absorbing too much product, and not applying it to the surface of the car.

Then again, maybe I did everything right. When I did the swipe test to see if the sealant was ready to be removed, I could clearly see the layer of sealant I had applied.

By machine, it was tough to see where I had gone over.

Sounds right to me...

Are you working on a white or light colored car?

The goal is to work in and over a thin coating. Some product will go inside the pad, that's just how it goes... save that pad for future applications in a clean place where it won't get dirt or dust on the surface.

You can try to clean it but you'll find that waxes and paint sealants don't wash out of any pad easily because they're not water soluble.

They're not supposed to wash off your car so they're not going to wash out of a pad.

I guess I'm asking this:

1. Am I using the right pad?
2. Am I using the right amount?
3. Do I need to apply more pressure?
4. How thin of a coat is too thin?

Great questions...

1. Yes
2. Guess so... I just made a video that includes showing how to prime a pad when applying a paint sealant and explain why.
3. You only need to apply light pressure, just enough to maintain the pad flat against the paint. The exception to this rule is if you machine applying a cleaner/wax to neglected paint, then you apply pressure like you were using a compound or polish to correct paint.
4. You should be able to see a continuous film on the surface, I have some testing to do this week, some details and some videos, I'll try to capture a picture of a "thin coating".

 

[TLC Auto Detail]

Thinner is better, sounds like you did it perfectly to me! BTW what speed were you using? When I apply sealant via machine I usually use speed 2 or 3.

 

[Kurt_s]

I detailed my car using a Griot's ROP for the first time over the weekend. This is my first experience using a machine to detail my car. For applying the wax, I used the red LC CCS pad. I've read the how-to on how much product to apply to the pad, which I followed, but I'm not sure if that's the right amount to use in the case of this sealant.

When I've applied the sealant before by hand, it was a bit more simple. It was easy to see the product on the surface as I applied it (maybe I was applying it too thick). By machine, it was tough to see where I had gone over. I could barely see the product on the surface as I made my passes. It seems like the pad is absorbing too much product, and not applying it to the surface of the car.

Then again, maybe I did everything right. When I did the swipe test to see if the sealant was ready to be removed, I could clearly see the layer of sealant I had applied.




I guess I'm asking this:

1. Am I using the right pad?
2. Am I using the right amount?
3. Do I need to apply more pressure?
4. How thin of a coat is too thin?

1. Red is fine. What size did you use?
a. I find that a 4" red flat pad works well for me, however it takes longer than using a 5.5" or 6.5" pad. I was thinking that I should have used the 5.5" last night.
b. I felt that I was wasting product with a 6.5" pad and I can use the 4" pad to apply manually to spots too tight for the DA.

2. Should be fine.
a. I like to see a very light haze when applying.
b. I used maybe 4-6 applications (thin X) to a 4" red flat pad to seal my wife's car yesterday, and probably didn't need that much. Maybe 1/4-1/2 ounce total.
c. Applying a thin X two times to the clean pad for the hood will normally prime the pad pretty well and you won't need to add much for for the rest of the vehicle.

3. No. Weight of the DA is fine. I try to keep the pad spinning (2-3 speed) but I read one of Mike P's comments that it wasn't necessary some time ago.
a. I apply 1x horizontal and 1x vertical passes per panel while overlapping each pass to assure complete coverage. I'm not sure that one needs to do both, but I feel safer with that procedure.
b. The double pass technique seems to spread a thinner and more even coat over the surface but that's only a guess. It wipes off very easily so I'm happy.

4. When none is applied.. You don't need much. You are probably better off applying 2 thin coats versus 1 thick coat but you need to wait 12 hours for the second coat. I'm planning to apply a coat of Fuzion so one coat is fine for me.

The nice think about WG DGPS is the ease to buff off the hazed sealant if you apply too much. Again, you don't need to overapply to get good coverage.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

When I apply sealant via machine I usually use speed 2 or 3.

I used to use and recommend the 3.0 setting all the time but now days for a finishing wax or sealant it's the 4.5 setting.

On the 3 or lower setting, it always feels like finishing pads are lagging behind the movement of the tool. I think this is because they are soft and pliable and on a low speed setting have so much thorough contact with the paint.

Bump the speed setting up to the 4 or 5 setting, (depending upon size of pad), and you should notice the polisher and pad move easier over the surface.

Just an observation and a personal practice, completely personal preference when it comes to applying a finishing product except the 6.0 and even 5.5 speed setting is just too fast for the task at hand.

 

[indianaryan]

Are you working on a white or light colored car?

It's a metallic silver, not as dark as a gunmetal gray, but not as light as say a Honda Civic silver.

Thinner is better, sounds like you did it perfectly to me! BTW what speed were you using? When I apply sealant via machine I usually use speed 2 or 3.

I set the speed to 3. Though I wondered if I should set it lower when I switched to the 4" pads...

 

[indianaryan]

Thanks for the quick replied everyone! Sounds like if anything I might have used too much product, as I continued to apply an "X" on the pad for each large panel on the car. Sounds like at first this would be ok, but after the pad soaks up some of the product, I can back off on adding any.

Mike, a video showing a thin coat would be outstanding! I'm looking forward to it.

 

[BobbyG]

It's a metallic silver, not as dark as a gunmetal gray, but not as light as say a Honda Civic silver.

I set the speed to 3. Though I wondered if I should set it lower when I switched to the 4" pads...

I pretty much apply all my sealants and waxes by machine now. I find I can easily control the amount of product I lay down and it seems to just do a much nicer overall job plus it's allot faster.

For sealants and waxes I dial down the polisher's speed to 3 and it always works really well.

For pads I like the red CCS or blue flat pads, both do the job nicely! rops:

 

[Kurt_s]

I used to use and recommend the 3.0 setting all the time but now days for a finishing wax or sealant it's the 4.5 setting.

On the 3 or lower setting, it always feels like finishing pads are lagging behind the movement of the tool. I think this is because they are soft and pliable and on a low speed setting have so much thorough contact with the paint.

Bump the speed setting up to the 4 or 5 setting, (depending upon size of pad), and you should notice the polisher and pad move easier over the surface.

Just an observation and a personal practice, completely personal preference when it comes to applying a finishing product except the 6.0 and even 5.5 speed setting is just too fast for the task at hand.

Hi Mike so you changed your recommended technique on us?

I normally use a 4" pad so the 2-3 speed seems to keep the pad spinning. Somewhere, I remember you commenting that the head didn't need to spin, but I keep the pad spinning to maximize contact between sealant on the pad and the paint. Is this the recommended technique?

 

[TornadoRed]

Thanks for the quick replied everyone! Sounds like if anything I might have used too much product, as I continued to apply an "X" on the pad for each large panel on the car. Sounds like at first this would be ok, but after the pad soaks up some of the product, I can back off on adding any.

That sounds like too much to me. How was it to remove?

Did you pay attention to how many ounces you used? I used about half a 2oz. sample that got me two coats on my GTI (same size as your 3) plus I put a coat on our shower. Once I primed the pad, I put a small pea sized drop on my 4" pad. for each panel.

 

[TLC Auto Detail]

It's a metallic silver, not as dark as a gunmetal gray, but not as light as say a Honda Civic silver.



I set the speed to 3. Though I wondered if I should set it lower when I switched to the 4" pads...

Nope speed 3 is still fine, you aren't going to really see a sealant that well especially on a light colored vehicle. Thin coats are key for bonding, and removal purposes.

Thanks for the quick replied everyone! Sounds like if anything I might have used too much product, as I continued to apply an "X" on the pad for each large panel on the car. Sounds like at first this would be ok, but after the pad soaks up some of the product, I can back off on adding any.

Mike, a video showing a thin coat would be outstanding! I'm looking forward to it.

I use 5.5 pads, but it should apply the same for 4 inche pads. I do one big x on the pad for the drivers side hood (where I start), that x on a midsize car will easily get me all the way down that side of the car and over the trunk lid. Then I go to the passenger side of the hood, apply a smaller x to the pad and that usually is plenty to knock out the rest of the vehicle.

another way to do it is start eith a small x on the pad, and add a few dots of sealant if you feel you are running low at any point on the vehicle. This will help you from over applying product.

I pretty much apply all my sealants and waxes by machine now. I find I can easily control the amount of product I lay down and it seems to just do a much nicer overall job plus it's allot faster.

For sealants and waxes I dial down the polisher's speed to 3 and it always works really well.

For pads I like the red CCS or blue flat pads, both do the job nicely! rops:

I used to use CCS but I feel like they absorb alot of product. I currently use black uber pads from detailers domain (made by buff and shine) and they are still plenty soft but seem to hold more product on the face of the pad without absorbing it.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi Mike so you changed your recommended technique on us?

Any speed "can" work, and for years when I was at Meguiar's I posted on MOL and taught in the Meguiar's classes to use the 3.0 setting for applying finishing waxes and sealants and the 5.0 Speed Setting for removing defects, but that was Meguiar's protocol at that time, things change.

Here at Autogeek I'm able to freestyle quite a bit more... but seriously, for me the 3.0 speed setting on a Porter Cable style is a little slow and the pad will move better over the surface at the 4.0 setting.

Anyone reading this, next time you're machine applying a wax or paint sealant, try both speed settings on a horizontal panel and see if you can feel the drag characteristic of the pad over the surface at the slower setting as compared to the higher setting and then use what works best for you.

Somewhere, I remember you commenting that the head didn't need to spin,

When applying a finishing wax or sealant since you're not trying to remove defects, or in other words remove a little paint, then technically the pad does not need to rotate. It doesn't hurt if it rotates but with tools with free floating spindle assemblies, when applying a finishing wax or paint sealant, the goal is to apply, work-in to whatever level possible a thin coating. Rotating or a combination of just jiggling and sporadic rotating works just fine for this.

but I keep the pad spinning to maximize contact between sealant on the pad and the paint. Is this the recommended technique?

Oh I don't think maintaining maximum contact between the sealant on the pad and the paint is hard to do at any speed with most pads sizes as long as you're holding the polisher in a way that the pad will be flat to the surface.

But keeping the pad spinning can't hurt anything... as long as it's clean and soft.

Personal preference...

 

[WestEnd]

Sounds like if anything I might have used too much product, as I continued to apply an "X" on the pad for each large panel on the car.

I am giggling here at myself thinking about my first time applying sealant by DA, sometimes I still feel like you. I too thought the same things about not being able to see the sealant on a white car. So I added more product, then more and more.

The funny part is that I thought it was not enough throughout the process until I removed the pad from the backing plate. I could hardly get it free it was so slimy. There was so much product in the pad that when it folded coming off of the plate it oozed sealant all over the place. I should have collected it and reused it later there was so much.

Now (thx to this forum) I do a quick swipe test as mentioned if I think its not applying. I have also done a quick swipe on the pad to see if my finger comes up wet, it just makes me feel better for some reason.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I remember someone coming up with the idea to tint white waxes to make them easier to see on white and light colored cars...

Another suggestion I've heard in the past is a color changing wax or sealant, it goes on one color and then after it's ready to wipe off it will have changed to a different color.

Thinking outside the box or the wax bottle...

 

[indianaryan]

That sounds like too much to me. How was it to remove?

Did you pay attention to how many ounces you used? I used about half a 2oz. sample that got me two coats on my GTI (same size as your 3) plus I put a coat on our shower. Once I primed the pad, I put a small pea sized drop on my 4" pad. for each panel.

I probably used 2-3 oz. Way too much, I know. It actually wasn't too hard to remove.

I am giggling here at myself thinking about my first time applying sealant by DA, sometimes I still feel like you. I too thought the same things about not being able to see the sealant on a white car. So I added more product, then more and more.

The funny part is that I thought it was not enough throughout the process until I removed the pad from the backing plate. I could hardly get it free it was so slimy. There was so much product in the pad that when it folded coming off of the plate it oozed sealant all over the place. I should have collected it and reused it later there was so much.

Now (thx to this forum) I do a quick swipe test as mentioned if I think its not applying. I have also done a quick swipe on the pad to see if my finger comes up wet, it just makes me feel better for some reason.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! The pad was actually soaked through to the backing plate with sealant. :doh:

Do you just let the pad air dry, then reuse it?

I remember someone coming up with the idea to tint white waxes to make them easier to see on white and light colored cars...

Another suggestion I've heard in the past is a color changing wax or sealant, it goes on one color and then after it's ready to wipe off it will have changed to a different color.

Thinking outside the box or the wax bottle...

I'm surprised that hasn't been done yet. That would be really helpful for people with lighter colored cars.

 

[Shawn T.]

I only use about an ounce or less when applying by machine or by hand. Thin, thin, thin, thin, thin is key.

 

[WestEnd]

I'm glad I'm not the only one! The pad was actually soaked through to the backing plate with sealant. :doh:

Do you just let the pad air dry, then reuse it?

haha Yup, I can relate!

I clean mine, then when dry store it and reuse with the same sealant. As Mike mentioned, it is tougher to clean due to the nature of the product but mine seem to come out ok.

Now that first one soaked throughout? Yeah, that took wash after wash to clean. LOL

 

[fj610]

At the end of the day, is there any real difference in performance between applying LSP by machine or by hand?

 

[Kurt_s]

The machine tends to make it easier to apply a thin, even coat without missing spots. If you can apply thin even coats by hand and enjoy the pleasure of using a fine paste wax, all will be good!