Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Surely that depends on how well it's been polished? and as the lsp will increase the gloss of the paint again, is it really an issue?

Certainly having chemically clean paint allows sealants to bond better, thereby increasing their longevity; in fact it's a must with some nano sealants.

I'm the first to admit that I can be a little anal when it comes to prep, but I've never thought of that as a bad thing tbh.

I'll just stick with what I originally wrote, which is targeted at traditional car waxes and synthetic paint sealants, not paint coatings.


Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

Sheldon explaining Quantum Physics to Penny on the Big Bang Theory

Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding
The topic of bonding as it relates to a wax or a paint sealant bonding to paint comes up on most detailing discussion forums from time to time, and there's a lot of confusion and probably miss-information about this topic.

The idea presented is that in order for a wax or paint sealant to properly bond to an automotive paint finish, the paint finish must be chemically stripped so that the paint is surgically clean and free from any residual polishing oils or any other substances.

The goal is to insure there's nothing on the surface that could potentially interfere with the bonding action between the protection ingredients in a wax or paint sealant and the paint.


Follow the Manufacturer's Recommendations
The first and primary consideration goes to the manufactures recommendations. If the manufacturer of a wax or paint sealant officially recommends that the surface of the paint must be stripped clean before their product can properly bond to the paint, then you should follow the recommendations of the manufacturer as they know their products best.

If the manufacturer does not specifically recommend that a painted surface needs to be stripped clean, then whatever recommendations they do provide should be followed as they know their products best.

To my knowledge, there are only a few manufacturers in the wax and paint sealant business that recommend that the surface of automotive paint be surgically clean and bare before their products can be applied. Besides these few companies, most manufacturers either recommend to apply their wax and/or paint sealant to the paint after first using their surface prep products which can include, compounds, polishes, paint cleaners and pre-wax cleaners. And of course, sometimes there are no specific recommendations.


Back in February of 2005, this topic came up when I worked for Meguiar's as it related to applying NXT Tech Wax over a surface previously polished using Meguiar's M80 Speed Glaze.

Here's the specific thread,

Do Glazes/Fillers affect the bonding of NXT?


I contacted R&D, communicated with one of the Chemists, and then posted a statement provided to me on this topic.

A wax, (natural or synthetic), is a substance that when applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own. Thus, it is necessary to add specialized miscible oils to allow the waxy material to spread and adhere evenly to the surface. These oils along with polymers are responsible for improving the functionality of the wax protection, appearance, adherence and the overall application.

This means the addition of any Meguiar's polishes prior to the wax application will not only enhance the paint finish, but also aid in the appearance, adherence and overall lasting ability of the wax which is applied over the top of it.

Since leaving Meguiar's and joining the Autogeek Team in 2009, the topic of bonding has come up from time to time. I knew I had written on this topic, but could not remember the keyword or words to help me locate the above thread. Then I remembered the word, did a search and found the thread.

Here are the key words, and note the portions I've formatted to be bold, red and italic...

Taken from TheFreeDictionary.com

Miscible
Relating to two or more substances, such as water and alcohol, that can be mixed together or can dissolve into one another in any proportion without separating.


Immiscible
Incapable of being mixed or blended together. Immiscible liquids that are shaken together eventually separate into layers. Oil and water are immiscible.
​

I'm not a chemist and don't ever claim to be one and do everything I can to avoid talking or typing over my head. That said, it is my opinion that while the above information is supplied by a chemist at Meguiar's, it's probably true for most quality waxes and paint sealants manufactured by reputable companies, unless they state otherwise, i.e., unless they state that the surface must be stripped clean before applying their wax or paint sealant.


So unless a manufacturer specifically states or recommends that an automotive paint finish must be stripped clean for their wax or paint sealant to properly bond or adhere, then I think it's safe to say that the chemist behind the brand has created their wax and paint sealant formulas to use the same miscible oils, (or other miscible substances), in their surface prep products to aid in the bonding or adhering of the protection ingredients used in their waxes and/or paint sealants to paint.

This would be called, Synergistic Chemical Compatibility.


It's entirely possible that a lot of popular waxes and paint sealants on the market will bond or adhere to paint correctly after the paint has been prepped using compounds, polishes and paint cleaners outside the brand of the waxes or paint sealants being applied. There's no easy way of knowing or testing, but in my opinion, I would think the chances for this type of chemical compatibility to be more likely than less likely as there is probably some common chemistry involved in surface prep products and protection products that overlaps among different polish and wax companies.

That's just my opinion or guesstimate, you can make up your own mind.

My good friend, Tom aka Mosca as he's known on detailing discussion forums, once posted,

I've never walked out into a garage only to find out that overnight the wax or paint sealant I applied slipped off the car's paint and piled-up on the floor surrounding the car because it didn't bond or stick to the paint.

I would have to agree with Tom.


To strip or not to strip?
Do you need to chemically strip your car's paint with some type of solvent before applying a wax or paint sealant to enable the protection ingredients to better bond or adhere to the paint?

Manufacturer's Specific Recommendation
Only if the wax or paint sealant manufacturer specifically recommends this procedure.

Or
​

Personal Preference
If after researching this topic you personally want and feel the need to chemically strip the paint.

Or
​

Forum Member's Recommendation
See what I wrote above under Personal Preference
​

If you use good quality products and follow the manufacturer's directions, plus work clean and use good technique, then you should be able to apply your choice of wax or paint sealant directly to your car's paint after wiping off the residue left by the last surface prep product used on the paint. This, by the way, is my normal practice, and below is my personal recommendation on this topic as taken from here.


How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results


Excerpt

Personal Recommendation For Removing Waxes and Paint Sealants
To remove any previously applied wax or paint sealant, I recommend using a light paint cleaner or a light polish applied by hand or machine. A light paint cleaner or abrasive polish will effectively remove any previously applied wax or paint sealant AND leave the paint looking clear and glossy. I call this working forward in the process because the goal is to create beauty.

Chemically stripping the paint will tend to dull the paint; it certainly doesn't increase gloss and clarity. You don't see the dulling effect unless you're working on black paint and repeat the process multiple times. Since not everyone works on black paint, and you're not going to make stripping your car's paint a daily routine, it could be you won't see the dulling effect on your car's paint but it does take place.

Wiping a clear coated black finish over and over and over again with any type of solvent isn't going to make the top clear layer of paint more and more clear, it's going to do the opposite, that is dull it down.

So chemically stripping paint is what I call working backwards in the process. I, personally, prefer to work forwards in all my detailing projects but do understand the reasons why some people want to chemically strip their car's paint, or their customer's car's paint, and each person can decide what the best approach is for their needs.

And again, since you're not chemically stripping the paint as a "practice" but only during a detailing session, the dulling effect is not an issue, but I wanted to point it out just for the most detail oriented detailing enthusiasts or Pro Detailers reading this article.

 

[Niblick]

its certainly an interesting read, but as i have said before, i believe there are significant differences between waxes and sealants that are being overlooked. In point of fact, the statement made by the meguiars chemist refers only to waxes, he makes no mention of bonding with sealants whatsoever. The assumption appears to be that what's best for one, is best for both, and that simply may not be the case. Added to which, manufactures aren't going to worry if their product doesn't last quite as long as it might. They want buyers to have everything looking shiny for very little effort, because thats what sells products. So they're not going to discourage anyone from using polish under sealant unless there is a significant risk of product interference, it really wouldn't be in their best interests. Quite the opposite in fact. I look on it like this, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and in the case of sealant over polish, that would be the polish. it's just not designed to last as long as a sealant, if it was, you wouldn't need sealants at all.
Also, being miscible only means that the polish and the sealant bond well to each other. It does not mean that they will bond as well to the paint surface when combined as the sealant would do on its own. in fact, a layer of polish that has been buffed to a finish could form a barrier preventing the sealant from bonding to the paint at all. this means that the sealant is then only attached to a weak layer of polish that will degrade relatively quickly.
will it look better? probably yes, because you're hiding faults in the paint. And to my mind, that is where the compromise is; polish more comprehensively, or disguise the damage with fillers and accept a weaker bond with the sealant. sometimes the latter is the only option, but in principle at least, i believe the former to be fundamentally better when it is practical to do so.
i suspect that we shall have to agree to disagree, but perhaps you can begin to understand why there are two very different schools of thought on the subject.
kind regards

 

[HUMP DIESEL]

I couldn't agree more Mike! I actually have that Meguiar's link bookmarked for when discussions come up on the forums that relate to it. :dblthumb2:

I typically just give the car a good wash with a regular car soap after polishing. No IPA wipe downs for me. I actually feel like IPA and other similar solvents dry the paint out...just look what it does to your hands.


The only time I have been wiping cars down to prep the surface is for paint coatings like Opti-Coat and CQuartz, which is actually recommended by those manufacturers.



Cheers,
Rasky

Same here. If I am waxing or even using a sealant such as Menzerna Powerlok, my last step is to wash the vehicle to remove all the dust. Other than that, I do not chemically wipe down the car. If I am doing a coating, yes.

I have never had an issue doing this.

HUMP

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

i suspect that we shall have to agree to disagree, but perhaps you can begin to understand why there are two very different schools of thought on the subject.

kind regards

Me begin to understand?


I completely understand, heck I write articles on these topics so other people can understand....


I just think it's all to easy for people to take things that are very simple, like washing and waxing their car, and make it as complicated as possible. Nothing wrong with that if that's what a person wants to do. Me? I like to keep things as simple as possible.

Instead of chemically striping paint just to apply a wax or sealant to try to eek out a little more time before it completely wears off I'll simply re-apply. Kind of like changing the oil in the engine in my truck before it breaks down 100%

:laughing:

 

[swanicyouth]

I have done my own testing will sealants "bonding" and glazes. I can tell you a glaze does not really affect a modern sealant's chemical resistance. In fact, many sealants today recommend using a paint cleaner that contains a glaze component to prep.

I don't think it's as difficult for sealants to last the duration as some may think...It doesn't need to be overthought. Ever try to get a sealant out of a foam pad? It's like impossible. If the sealant is quality - it will be equally as hard to get it off your paint. APC & IPA can't even dissolve a sealant. I wouldn't worry about a micro amount of polishing lubricants.

It just works.

Chemically stripping a polished car with Eraser or similar prior waxing is a waste of time & product IMHO. Wax doesn't "bond" - it's just sits there like an oily residue. I do not believe "polishing artifacts" on otherwise clean paint affect the durability of wax by one minute. Any polishing residue will be removed by the solvent in the wax - which all wax must contain.

IMHO you would be better served just wiping each panel down with a waterless wash or similar as you go along to make sure the panel is surgically clean (particle free) and dust free before slathering wax all over it with an applicator. That is what I focus on - cleanliness.

Stripping wax every time you want to top if off or renew it is just crazy. Just wash the car, wax it, and be done with it. Yes, it should be stripped down every once in a while - what defines "once in a while" will be different for each vehicle. I usually go about 5 months.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

On the topic of preventative maintenance....

Changing the oil every 3000 miles is a common practice called Preventative Maintenance, the idea being to change the oil BEFORE it's so far spent damage can occur to the motor parts.

If we apply that to washing and waxing our cars.

We wash our cars regularly to not only keep them shiny but to prevent the build-up of dirt and road film, which attracts moisture and then the entire matrix of stuff on the car's exterior would go to work deteriorating it.

We re-apply a car wax or synthetic paint sealant before every trace of the last application is scientifically documented to be gone because it's good preventative maintenance.

I think I talk about that here,

Sacrificial Barrier Coating = The purpose of a wax or synthetic paint sealant


Here's a small excerpt from the above article,




Two extremes and people in-between
How often you need to apply a coat of wax or a paint sealant is a personal decision that only you can make. That said, there are two basic categories of car waxers... the Minimalist and the Maximallist, and a third catagory... everyone in-between...


Minimalist
My guess is a minimalist is more than likely going to be the type of person that looks at their car as a means of transportation. Wax your car 1-4 times a year. This would be a benchmark number for the minimum number of times you can wax your daily driver and expect the paint to hold up over the service life of the car and for it to look good to some level. Assuming your car is a daily driver, parked outside, then waxing your car just one time a year won’t probably maintain your car’s finish to show room new condition but everyone has their own standards and expectations so find a routine that works for you.


Maximallist
My guess is a maximallist is more than likely going to be the type of person that looks at their car as an extension of their personality. This type of person usually doesn’t need anyone telling them how often to wax their car because they already wax their car often. They wax their car often to protect and preserve the paint but just as important to them is to make the paint and by default, the car look good.

In-between
My guess is that waxing your car is something that never makes it on to your "A-List" of projects and probably not even your "B-List" of projects. It probably gets done by you or someone, it's just not a priority or your passion.


Oil Change
Whether you’re the Minimalist or the Maximallist, or someone that falls in-between, here’s a better method to the madness as to determining when or how often to wax your car, two words… Oil Change

No I don’t mean wax your car every time you change your oil, what I mean is think of waxing your car in the same way you think of changing your oil. Here’s what I mean…


PM = Preventative Maintenance
Most people change their oil every 3000 miles as that is what the manufacture recommends to prevent pre-mature failure of the moving parts inside the motor. The motor won’t blow up at 3001 miles as going past 3000 miles doesn’t mean the oil is no longer lubricating the moving parts, it’s a Preventative Maintenance Practice.

The idea being to remove the old, worn out oil BEFORE it’s so worn out that damage can occur. This approach to engine maintenance works and millions of miles on millions of engines documents this practice.

Now take that same idea and apply it to waxing your car’s paint… that is re-apply a fresh coat of wax before all of the last coating has completely worn off. Apply a coat of wax BEFORE there is so little protection left on the surface that damage can occur.

If you car is in fact a daily driver, then a good minimum number of times to apply a coat of wax to your car’s finish to insure that it’s fully protected against attack would be 4 times a year, that's once every 3 months.

In a perfect world, if you have the time and inclination, then waxing more often certainly won’t hurt anything, you can decide how often for yourself. I put a coat of wax on my daily driver truck at least once a month. For me it’s different than it is for others because I work in the car wax industry… I usually have a new wax to test often enough, or a new wax I’m curious about that it’s just so easy to go out into the garage and apply a coat of wax. So don’t use me as a benchmark…

 

[RaskyR1]

its certainly an interesting read, but as i have said before, i believe there are significant differences between waxes and sealants that are being overlooked. In point of fact, the statement made by the meguiars chemist refers only to waxes, he makes no mention of bonding with sealants whatsoever. The assumption appears to be that what's best for one, is best for both, and that simply may not be the case. Added to which, manufactures aren't going to worry if their product doesn't last quite as long as it might. They want buyers to have everything looking shiny for very little effort, because thats what sells products. So they're not going to discourage anyone from using polish under sealant unless there is a significant risk of product interference, it really wouldn't be in their best interests. Quite the opposite in fact. I look on it like this, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and in the case of sealant over polish, that would be the polish. it's just not designed to last as long as a sealant, if it was, you wouldn't need sealants at all.
Also, being miscible only means that the polish and the sealant bond well to each other. It does not mean that they will bond as well to the paint surface when combined as the sealant would do on its own. in fact, a layer of polish that has been buffed to a finish could form a barrier preventing the sealant from bonding to the paint at all. this means that the sealant is then only attached to a weak layer of polish that will degrade relatively quickly.
will it look better? probably yes, because you're hiding faults in the paint. And to my mind, that is where the compromise is; polish more comprehensively, or disguise the damage with fillers and accept a weaker bond with the sealant. sometimes the latter is the only option, but in principle at least, i believe the former to be fundamentally better when it is practical to do so.
i suspect that we shall have to agree to disagree, but perhaps you can begin to understand why there are two very different schools of thought on the subject.
kind regards

All valid arguments. However, what would you say about coatings like Modesta that have their own primer polish, which can be used prior to applying one of their coatings, which claim 3-10 years durability? Or Optimum Opti-Coat Pro, which requires you to use their Primer Polish prior to applying their coating, which is permanent? On top of that, Optimum has said you can coat right over any other their polishes, and only wiping down with a damp MF towel is needed prior to application.

 

[swanicyouth]

its certainly an interesting read, but as i have said before, i believe there are significant differences between waxes and sealants that are being overlooked. In point of fact, the statement made by the meguiars chemist refers only to waxes, he makes no mention of bonding with sealants whatsoever. The assumption appears to be that what's best for one, is best for both, and that simply may not be the case. Added to which, manufactures aren't going to worry if their product doesn't last quite as long as it might. They want buyers to have everything looking shiny for very little effort, because thats what sells products. So they're not going to discourage anyone from using polish under sealant unless there is a significant risk of product interference, it really wouldn't be in their best interests. Quite the opposite in fact. I look on it like this, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and in the case of sealant over polish, that would be the polish. it's just not designed to last as long as a sealant, if it was, you wouldn't need sealants at all.

Also, being miscible only means that the polish and the sealant bond well to each other. It does not mean that they will bond as well to the paint surface when combined as the sealant would do on its own. in fact, a layer of polish that has been buffed to a finish could form a barrier preventing the sealant from bonding to the paint at all. this means that the sealant is then only attached to a weak layer of polish that will degrade relatively quickly.

will it look better? probably yes, because you're hiding faults in the paint. And to my mind, that is where the compromise is; polish more comprehensively, or disguise the damage with fillers and accept a weaker bond with the sealant. sometimes the latter is the only option, but in principle at least, i believe the former to be fundamentally better when it is practical to do so.

i suspect that we shall have to agree to disagree, but perhaps you can begin to understand why there are two very different schools of thought on the subject.

kind regards

I don't think Meg's chemists are offering any advice about traditional "waxes" (non polymer or hybrid LSPs) - since they don't make any.

All their products are sealants.

 

[jfelbab]

I don't think Meg's chemists are offering any advice about traditional "waxes" (non polymer or hybrid LSPs) - since they don't make any.

All their products are sealants.

Meguiar's M26 High Tech Yellow Wax - a premium yellow Carnauba wax blended with silicones, polymers and other waxes.

Gold Class Carnauba Plus - a special blend of premium Carnauba plus clear coat safe protecting polymers.

These are both "traditional waxes" containing Carnauba, polymers and other waxes, IOW, hybrid LSPs.

 

[swanicyouth]

^ shows what I know. I thought they stopped using carnauba years ago.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

IOW = In Other Words, hybrid LSPs.

Correct Jim....


A few years ago I wrote an article to try to explain this as well as a lot of other things, but one of the points I made was there are very few car waxes that are solely based on Carnauba wax. Even if they use the name Carnauba in the name and on the front label there is often more and other ingredients in the formula.

Most quality waxes with Carnauba ALSO include a lot of other ingredients and therefore are what I call blended waxes or hybrid waxes. That is a blend or mix of not just naturally occurring Carnauba wax but also man-made or synthesized ingredients.

Here's the deal...

If you use a product where the protection and beauty benefits are supplied by only a single ingredient then you only get the benefits and features from a single ingredient. That's very limiting in this day and age of science.

If you use a product where the chemist has blended together multiple ingredients then you get more benefits and features.

A good chemist includes ingredients that provide things like protection, (of course), beauty, (things like gloss and shine), as well as easy application, easy wipe-off, sometimes fast drying is a feature or no drying at all, just depends on the goal.

Then there's cleaner/waxes, waxes that clean, polish and protect.


Here's that article....


The Difference Between a Cleaner/Wax and a Finishing Wax



In the long run, what's most important is to find something you like and use it...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

^ shows what I know. I thought they stopped using Carnauba years ago.

I asked one of their chemists about Carnauba as an ingredient one day and his answer was very simple. Carnauba is a wax that when properly prepared for use on car paint will add a lot of gloss.

I think it's safe to say we all like a glossy looking finish... I know I do....


1954 Ford F-100 - Extreme Makeover - Process and products used

After all the polishing work, the paint on this old Ford was topped with a Carnauba wax....

 

[PiPUK]

Of course the use of 'hybrid' for a wax which is just a blend of silicon chemicals and hydrocarbon type waxes confuses matters - how then does one identify when a product contains a silicon based wax?

'Blended' waxes have been around for so long that they are pretty much the norm. I would suggest that 'pure' waxes are really only re-appearing as more amateur brewers decide to release their homebrews to the market. Amusingly enough, we get a whole lot of people coming to us looking for the more interesting ingredients which they cannot source elsewhere. And thus the homebrew waxes tend back towards the professionally manufactured waxes which they were seeking to improve upon... interesting!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

how then does one identify when a product contains a silicon based wax?

Um...don't we call that a "sealant"?

 

[PiPUK]

Um...don't we call that a "sealant"?

Nope! This is a wax with sealant chemistry. It is both wax and sealant, in one. It is not a mix or blend and out performs both.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Nope! This is a wax with sealant chemistry. It is both wax and sealant, in one. It is not a mix or blend and out performs both.

I know you are the one person not to argue terminology with, and maybe I should have reviewed the earlier part of this thread before saying this, but isn't the "accepted" terminology that a wax is a natural product, while a sealant is a synthetic one? And therefore a wax with sealant chemistry would be a sealant?

 

[PiPUK]

I know you are the one person not to argue terminology with, and maybe I should have reviewed the earlier part of this thread before saying this, but isn't the "accepted" terminology that a wax is a natural product, while a sealant is a synthetic one? And therefore a wax with sealant chemistry would be a sealant?

No harm in a bit of debate! :xyxthumbs:

This depends on who the terminology belongs to! In detailing circles, you are probably correct. Unfortunately, as with many things, this falls apart when you know a bit more of the chemistry.

Waxes very much do not need to be natural. There are numerous examples of waxes, which have been in automotive products for years, decades probably, which are synthetic. Take polythene wax, for example. In my mind, a wax is generally going to be a hydrocarbon based product (so that means carbon chemistry). On the molecular level, they are great big long chains.

Sealants can be very broad and, yes, it would seem that they are synthetic. Now, the group which I would consider to be the majority are based around something distinctly different. I am sure you know that we are carbon based lifeforms. Well many sealants are effectively aliens - silicon based lifeforms! Basically, the carbon atoms are replaced by silicon atoms. I have seen the term 'sealant' used even on very simple silicone oil type products.

Hybrids are a combination of the two. So the type which Mike refers to is quite valid, it is a mix of two different chemicals, one with carbon and one with silicon chemistry - the product is a hybrid. This is an acknowledged group but, as I noted, there is a second group where there is a single chemical which has a wax like structure (whether that is long chain fatty or whatever), but centred around silicon, not carbon. So, in this instance, the actual active component is itself a hybrid, not just the product you make with it.

It is an interesting distinction because the higher level hybrids are very high tech whilst the blends can be very simple. The performance is notably different, as is the cost (at an estimate, the high tech hybrids will cost something like 10x as much). So it is something which would be nice for the market to know about, if a product is genuinely higher tech - but the looser use of terminology in the detailing sector means that it is basically impossible to know which product is a mix or traditional wax and silicones and which which contains a genuine hybrid wax.

Complicated....

 

[Loach]

What specifically causes a degradation in the base layer bonding of a sealant or wax? Or what does that even look like at a microscopic level, this breakdown process that determines that the surface is less protected at a certain level compared to the panel directly after immediate application of said wax/sealant? Say you wax or seal a paint surface and this surface sits in a temperature controlled showroom. Why does the bonding of the surface degrade over time, and how does one even determine and view this degradation to conclude that the wax or sealant is no longer even effective?

The answers of those questions are most certainly different depending on the exact wax/sealant/coating product we're talking about, but I'm thinking in general terms, say M26 or even Meguiar's Gold Class vs. Meguiar's Ultimate Wax. Where one product category is commonly referred to as being of a lower "durability" than the other product. If anyone has any insight or can direct me to any articles that could shed light on this subject I'd appreciate it.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

No harm in a bit of debate! :xyxthumbs:

I agree... discussions are great... but I've never seen anyone win a wax war.

Complicated....

That's why I like to "try" to keep it more simple...

A person can study and study and study detailing products and that's all good but at the end of the day at some point they are going to go out into their garage and slap something on the paint and wipe it off.

Hopefully it will look good and then they can move on...


Years ago I started using the below in my Sig Line....


"Find something you like and use it often"


The point being if you liked it that generally means you like how it applies, like how it wipes off and like how it looks and sometimes you like how long it lasts.

Use it often simply means if you use the product on a regular basis, even if it's mediocre product, just the act of regularly applying "something" to your car's paint has a cleaning and polishing effect and the result is the paint will always look great. It's only when a person neglects their paint over time that it goes down hill.

I think the quote is popular, (I see people sharing it all over the Interwebs), because it's true and if the quote is put into action it works.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

No harm in a bit of debate! :xyxthumbs:

I did look back in the thread later and there was no discussion of the chemistry per se, so I guess if a "wax" is a long chain fatty acid and a "sealant" is something else, it really doesn't matter if it's natural or synthetic or whether it's carbon or silicon based. And that gets to the way it bonds to the surface (I guess); the usual distinction used on detailing forums is whether it "cross-links".

As Mike says, in the end it's simply academic, no one really knows what's in these products and you have to use what works for you, and make judgments on trying new products based on the opinions of people you trust.

I guess we are all worried we are paying a huge amount for a bottle or tub of something that is a bulk product, and we are paying for marketing hyperbole rather than expensive chemistry, so we try to figure it inside out, which of course doesn't really help us in the end.