MF Pad System...Devil's Advocate Thread

[Spicy McHaggis]

OK, this thread isn’t trying to start any arguments. I mean it only to be a thread playing devil’s advocate about the new MF Pad System. I am by no means saying the system doesn’t work, isn’t good, or shouldn’t be purchased.

Cost:
For this I am just going to base it on the 5/5.5 inch pads since that is the most popular size on the PC.
MF Compound Pads– Two pads cost $20 so $10 per pad (intro price, could go up)
Surbuf Pads – Two pads cost $12 so $6 per pad.

I know we are only talking $4 per pad, but when you are doing several cars, or want to have enough on hand that you don’t have to keep cleaning them, that will add up very quickly. Also for the MF System you are supposed to purchase the special compound as well which adds another $28 to the cost. We don’t need to take the second step into consideration because obviously both of these pads will need to be followed up by something.

Results:
This can be argued until the cows come home, which one removes more defects faster. Since the MF system isn’t out for consumers yet, there are only a few people’s reviews out there and that just isn’t enough to go on. Needless to say both pads remove defects very well. However, both pads also NEED to be followed up by some sort of finishing polish. I’ve read reviews saying the MF first step will finish ALMOST lsp ready, but from what I’ve seen, in person, this just isn’t the case. The MF pad finishes well, but it does need to be followed up. Surbuf pads also finish well, but they too leave little tick marks in the paint that must be removed by another finishing step. So as far as results it doesn’t matter what pad you use, because it will need to be followed up.
In my personal opinion I feel that the Surbuf pads remove defects faster, and better than the MF system, but I don’t expect everyone to believe or agree with me.

Pad cleaning:
I know not many have used them, again from what I’ve seen, the MF pads need to be constantly cleaned. They need to be brushed and blown out with air after every section. Otherwise the nap will get stuck down and not cut well, if at all. With the Surbuf pads they too will get matted down but it takes much longer before that happens. Also on the Surbuf a quick cleaning on the fly with a MF towel will fluff the fibers right back up. Again in this category I feel the Surbuf is superior. The constant cleaning of the MF pads will inevitably add time to your detail. Now if you are the type to not clean pads and just put a new one on and go, the higher price of the MF pads will come in to play. Even buying just 10 MF pads will cost you at least $40 more than the Surbufs. That’s enough to buy almost 7 more Surbuf pads.

Pad Life/Durability:
As far as how long the MF pads last, I cannot speak for this. I have seen them in action on 2 occasions which is not enough to make a fair assessment. As for durability I think both the MF pads and Surbuf pads are on the same level. Both pads tend to let fibers go as you polish. With the MF pads puffs of MF will come off sometimes randomly, but definitely if you catch an edge. Same with the Surbufs. They will shed fibers as you polish. Neither shed anything that affects the job, but I would be interested to see how long a MF pad lasts before it needs to be replaced.


So from my point of view the MF pads are a product that solves a problem that didn’t exist. Also after the crazy hype for these, which wasn’t ALL Meguiars’ fault, they just fall short, again in my opinion. I personally am always excited when advancements are made in detailing. Even if it isn’t something I will use it’s great to see companies working hard to get us great products and tools. However in this case I don’t think the product is quite as impressive as everyone expected. I personally will stick to using Surbufs (when I even us a PC) and leave the MF pads for everyone else.

I hope everyone enjoyed this read, and I hope it may spark some good, read not insulting, responses. Again this isn’t meant to piss anyone off, just a view from someone who isn’t totally blown away by this system. Thanks.

 

[kronos]

We definitely need to consider that these pads may not live up to the hype so I see the point in starting this thread.

However, don't take this the wrong way, but are you speaking from first hand experience?

 

[Spicy McHaggis]

We definitely need to consider that these pads may not live up to the hype so I see the point in starting this thread.

However, don't take this the wrong way, but are you speaking from first hand experience?

Not first hand user experience, but in person viewing experience, yes.

 

[kronos]

Some of the photos did show a little haze, especially after only using the compound, but other photos looked stunning. Does it seem the system is very paint-type dependent?

 

[Spicy McHaggis]

Some of the photos did show a little haze, especially after only using the compound, but other photos looked stunning. Does it seem the system is very paint-type dependent?

In my experience any polish/pad system is paint specific. Haze was noted with this system on a hard factory paint job and a softer repaint. Also more haze was noticed when the pad was used on the Flex DA, we assume due to the forced rotation.

Again, not saying it doesn't work, but IMO it must be followed up, just like the surbufs.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Personally while I do see the point of having this thread, I feel that it may be a bit premature. Until more people have the chance to use the system (as developed/designed) and do side by side comparisons against surbufs, foam, wool, etc. and use the pads with other liquids than just D300/301, we really don't have much to base any debates on. I will say that I do value the praise this system has received thus far from some very reputable detailers whose opinions I trust, but I can't really speak to much more than that for the time being.

I've already placed my pre-order and am willing to give it a fair chance before passing judgment on the product itself. I've already vocalized my opposition to the "hyping" that was done prior to this release several times, so I don't think that really needs to be rehashed yet again at this point.

 

[embolism]

everyone seems to be comparing the cutting pads to surbuffs. I'm assuming these pads are comparable in aggressiveness to a yellow pad or wood pad on a rotary? If so, isn't that a bit of overkill in terms of people who have softer paint or correct a couple times a year?

I mean I can see where a bit more aggressiveness, for ppl that use DAs only, means less passes and a faster detail, but now I'm getting nervous about being unable to dial down the aggressiveness if I need to. The only option I have when compounding (short of using different products) is to limit the pressure and passes I guess...

 

[Spicy McHaggis]

Personally while I do see the point of having this thread, I feel that it may be a bit premature. Until more people have the chance to use the system (as developed/designed) and do side by side comparisons against surbufs, foam, wool, etc. and use the pads with other liquids than just D300/301, we really don't have much to base any debates on. I will say that I do value the praise this system has received thus far from some very reputable detailers whose opinions I trust, but I can't really speak to much more than that for the time being.

I've already placed my pre-order and am willing to give it a fair chance before passing judgment on the product itself. I've already vocalized my opposition to the "hyping" that was done prior to this release several times, so I don't think that really needs to be rehashed yet again at this point.

My only issue is I think some, not all and not most, but some people have over sold how well this system works, or how well it works. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Not saying the system is junk. Basically giving my feelings plus a few points that could be food for thought.

everyone seems to be comparing the cutting pads to surbuffs. I'm assuming these pads are comparable in aggressiveness to a yellow pad or wood pad on a rotary? If so, isn't that a bit of overkill in terms of people who have softer paint or correct a couple times a year?

I mean I can see where a bit more aggressiveness, for ppl that use DAs only, means less passes and a faster detail, but now I'm getting nervous about being unable to dial down the aggressiveness if I need to. The only option I have when compounding (short of using different products) is to limit the pressure and passes I guess...

Surbuf is the best thing to compare the first step pad to in terms of cut and how it finishes. Wool on a rotary cuts much faster than either pad on a pc.

 

[john b]

My only issue is I think some, not all and not most, but some people have over sold how well this system works, or how well it works. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Not saying the system is junk. Basically giving my feelings plus a few points that could be food for thought.



Surbuf is the best thing to compare the first step pad to in terms of cut and how it finishes. Wool on a rotary cuts much faster than either pad on a pc.

i would like to see how versatile the products can be-meaning can you use these polishs and pads with other products and pads ? otherwise it seems to be very specific in design

 

[PAR Detailing]

I understand where you are coming from spicy. I think to be a wise consumer you have to listen to others and then after that make your own conclusions. This system really could be the greatest thing since sliced bread or it could be a less dusty version of 105/surbuf... who knows.

I will say I am anxious to try it out and to see what it can do. I might make my sisters car the test dummy. I want to really put this system to the test to see if it really is "worth" it and if it is a valuable weapon to have in your back pocket. I dont believe this will replace anyting in my arsenal but possibly be a "go to" product.

When I get it in I will compare results to several other products that many would reach for prior to getting the MF system and I will try and do a good write up/review from an unbiased perspective

 

[Mike Moore]

i would like to see how versatile the products can be-meaning can you use these polishs and pads with other products and pads ? otherwise it seems to be very specific in design

It was very specific in design D300 to MF cutting pad and D301 to MF finishing pad.
A lot of research has been done to pair these two products up exactly.

Now that being said...I have already heard of folks experimenting with different products with the MF pads.
There is rumor the someone tried the MF finishing pads with PO 85RD with excellent results.
People are going to do this it's in our nature.

 

[David Fermani]

Great thread and interesting assessment from what you saw being used. I’d love to see this and on what vehicle it was used on. No one said you are “supposed to” use the MF liquids with the pads. I personally prefer using M105 because I feel it cuts and finishes better IMHO on certain jobs, but still find myself reaching for D300 1st many times. On harder clears I’ve totally been able to finish off with just this combination using the KBM finishing method. I haven’t talked to anyone that can do this with SurBufs as they always leave moderate micro-hazing behind. No, I’ll agree. SB’s do cut better. I just prefer using a final finishing polish (like 85rd) as my 2nd/final step when needed. I don’t think this can always be done with SB’s. Many times you need an intermediate polishing step to knock-down the marring to be safe in the end. Otherwise you might be overstepping your polish’s correction boundaries. Again, this is mostly paint and user specific. As far as durability, I feel the MF pads hands down last longer that SB’s. My original 5 inch test pad(singular)pictured in my thread and below has 10 complete corrections on it and still works like new. Even if I had access to back up pads(which I didn‘t initially), I’m not sure if I’d need to reach for them. The outside edge of the foam is a little deteriorated(from me tilting the pad mostly), but the important part(the surface) is very much alive. Here’s some shots of this wear as well as the comparison of a used pads to a brand new pad:

I know this wouldn’t be the case with SB’s(or foam for that matter) as they tend to break down almost immediately. I also don’t find the MF’s to shed either. If they did, I certainly wouldn’t be able to get this many uses out of them. As far as cleaning, it only takes me 10 seconds to totally clean the pad with compressed air (I don't brush)so the extra time spent cleaning your pad might be a total of 5 minutes per entire vehicle. Hardly anything that is significantly noticeable when doing the correction of an entire vehicle. Everyone’s opinion is going to vary with this system as well as its components which is totally understandable. I do tend to think the MF pads are an important advancement to paint correction as it replaces the need to use foam for leveling defects in so may ways from my testing thus far.

 

[Flash Gordon]

I'm giving this thread a 5 star review. I will reserve comment at this time as I am currentally watching the Preacher Man on TV.

I sincerely hope this thread stays on a mature enough level that it doesn't get shut down. On the other hand, I would like to here the opinions of both the fan -vs- non fan of this New System -vs- Surbufs

Everyone just try to refrain from calling another posters "Yo Momma So Fat" jokes and I am confident we can get through this thing and it will prove to be a very insightfull thread

 

[Mike Moore]

...As far as cleaning, it only takes me 10 seconds to totally clean the pad with compressed air (I don't brush) so the extra time spent cleaning your pad might be a total of 5 minutes per entire vehicle. Hardly anything that is significantly noticeable when doing the correction of an entire vehicle.

OK while we're doing "MF Pad System...Devil's Advocate Thread"

Here's another interesting observation besides the OEM paint only...

It is recommended that the MF pads be cleaned with compressed air.
It does appear this is probably the best method to clean the MF pads.
The brush or on-the-fly cloth doesn't clean spent material as efficiently.

I do not own an air compressor. I'm not going to buy one to use MF pads.
How will that effect the performance of the pad/product on the paint finish?

 

[ScottB]

very interesting conversation and alot of valid points ... it will be interesting to see/hear more results as it gets into more users hands and evaluated in its public release.

 

[cnfowler]

Here is some good reading on the MF System. Most of the reviewers are professional detailers, and top notch ones at that. People like Joe Fernandez of Superior Shine, Nick Chapman of Nick's Custom Detailing, Rasky of Rasky's Auto Detailing, Todd Helme of Bella Macchina etc. Some of these guys have had a version of these pads in their hands for quite some time.

Nick Chapman believes in the system so well that he has all but put the rotary down. And anyone who knows Nick knows he is a truly gifted detailer.

I think the new system is very promising, and I don't believe it is hype based on what I've read and seen. This could be a revolutionary system that changes the detailing world.

Meguiar's MF System Reviews


Colin

 

[Flash Gordon]

Here is some good reading on the MF System. Most of the reviewers are professional detailers, and top notch ones at that. People like Joe Fernandez of Superior Shine, Nick Chapman of Nick's Custom Detailing, Rasky of Rasky's Auto Detailing, Todd Helme of Bella Macchina etc. Some of these guys have had a version of these pads in their hands for quite some time.

Nick Chapman believes in the system so well that he has all but put the rotary down. And anyone who knows Nick knows he is a truly gifted detailer.

I think the new system is very promising, and I don't believe it is hype based on what I've read and seen. This could be a revolutionary system that changes the detailing world.

Meguiar's MF System Reviews


Colin

With all due respect. I only see Nick posting on the Meguiars Forum. So his opinion on the matter is next to worthless IMO

Furthermore, if he is stating that this new system will completely remove the need to use a Ratory, then I know he is blowing smoke

 

[Spicy McHaggis]

With all due respect. I only see Nick posting on the Meguiars Forum. So his opinion on the matter is next to worthless IMO

Furthermore, if he is stating that this new system will completely remove the need to use a Ratory, then I know he is blowing smoke

You literally took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you!
Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

 

[MI Mike]

I sincerely hope this thread stays on a mature enough level that it doesn't get shut down. On the other hand, I would like to here the opinions of both the fan -vs- non fan of this New System -vs- Surbufs

I agree. One of the reasons we all use this forum is to learn... about new products and the way we detail and care for our cars. We can all agree to disagree, but respect each others views. We may find that the system can be utilized to meet our other detailing needs. Partially/Fully. Lets give it a chance to reach user hands, then we can comment on its use and place in our car care, etc. We have alot of experience out there and have found excellent ways to use equipment and products and learn from each other.

 

[WestEnd]

This is very interesting. A lot of great thinking points.

Mentioning that all of the reviewers have been pros is a very valid argument. Technique is more than half of the battle. I want to see people like myself with this system. What kind of results will the hobbyist get out of them? That will come soon with reviews.

Also mentioning things like using air compressors to clean the pads makes me think this is more of a pro, volume, auto dealership focused system.

This may create a system for pros to use instead of using a rotary, or at least bring the differences closer together. So in that regard I think it is an advancement.

I am not by any means knocking this system, or for that matter excited about it. My vote is still out and I am interested to see more hobbyist reviews in the future.