Are Waxes & Sealants Even Necessary??
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DLB
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So really, the answer wouldn't be just a yes or no - it would be something like "For a newer clear, NO, For any older clear without the UV protection, etc. and a single stage paint, YES.
Then you have to know what clear technology each vehicle you work on has, and if it has been resprayed, etc. So really Dave, quit making our heads hurt.
Flash - no one is baiting you. It is REALLY easy - if you have nothing valuable to add, don't post. Take a read: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-forums/24372-satire-how-refrain-posting.html
DLB
BobbyG
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I agree completely!
rops:Need is like defining Best. Both Need and Best are defined by the individual and no two are the same............sort of like snowflakes.....:laughing:
Everyone's goal isn't the same...
there's something that this question reminded me of. Glare products claim that their polish needs no wax or sealant as a last step, and it sounds to me, well, sorta outlandish, just like the claim that will last for five years. can anyone with first hand experience enlighten me about this?
=JSMet;437578]there's something that this question reminded me of. Glare products claim that their polish needs no wax or sealant as a last step, and it sounds to me, well, sorta outlandish, just like the claim that will last for five years. can anyone with first hand experience enlighten me about this?
David Fermani
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Well, that certainly eliminates the need for IPA wipedowns now doesn't it?
Not really. Unless you're washing your car with it constantly, I don't think it will hinder the lifespan of clear. :xyxthumbs: I've actually been using IPA for removing tar and debris on my company w/o any problems. Works pretty good actually.
I'd take a wild guess that there's more to detailing than just waxing/sealing your car, so I think they're all safe (for now).
So really, the answer wouldn't be just a yes or no - it would be something like "For a newer clear, NO, For any older clear without the UV protection, etc. and a single stage paint, YES.
Then you have to know what clear technology each vehicle you work on has, and if it has been resprayed, etc. So really Dave, quit making our heads hurt.
Wax & Sealants offer no UV protection. Nothing will guard against UV rays better than modern clearcoats. There's no documentation showing that waxing/sealing paint will make paint last longer. I see way too many 10+ old cars down here in S Florida that I know haven't been protected yet there paint is intact and healthy. Yes, they are swirled up, but I don't see that posing any longevity issues either. If you talk to a paint manufacturer rep they'll tell you it isn't necessary either. Many Body Shops that repaint cars offer a lifetime warranty through their paint line. No warranty states that you have to wax your car to keep the warranty in effect.
No need to worry about an infraction if you follow the rules and use the forum in the way it's designed...to share information in a useful manner. :dblthumb2:
Shawn T.
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LOL! I enjoy waxing too much not to do it; even if it provides no real help.
jimmyjam
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I've owned three Honda's that I've purchased brand new, and the first two I never waxed/sealed, but washed faithfully. They looked good the first year, and then the finish went down hill quick. The last and current Honda is a 2006 Civic Si Taffeta White has been polished once and waxed regularly. Peoples jaws drop when they hear that my car is near 6yrs old. The finish sparkles/reflects the light when parked in the sun, and has minimal swirls. Now it's going to be hard to sell the idea of the lack of wax/sealant is just as good to me. Maybe someone is applying a glaze with carnauba in it and their confusing it by thinking wax isn't needed thus far....Of course IMO
BobbyG
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Jimmy,
if you want the finish to maintain it's new like look for years to come, it's awfully hard to argue with common sense.... :dblthumb2:
DLB
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While I can certainly understand AND agree that the best protection against is a modern clearcoat, I can't say I totally agree that the correct LSP will offer no protection/help for the paint.
I have a single stage paint truck (painted in 2000) that I daily drive and if I neglect to keep a fresh coat of wax on it, I can tell a big difference. The biggest difference I was able to tell was actually with Souveran, I suppose because of the same oils that attract dust also nourish my single stage. If I don't wax it, the finish will oxidize almost weekly. You may say that the oxidation doesn't matter to the life of the paint job, in which I would have to say, it may not (I admittedly don't know as much about paint as you), but in order to remove the oxidation, you must take some paint with you. Do this too much on a single stage, and you are back to another layer (either primer or metal).
On another vehicle I used to detail there was a spot on the roof where a bird dropping had etched, and eventually there was clear coat failure in that spot. I know if the owner would have removed it safely in a timely manner, this wouldn't have been the case, but they didn't.
Albeit not a wax or sealant like I believe the original post was inferring, but do you think one of the coatings - Opti-Coat (which I know you are testing), CQuartz, C1, etc. would aid in such a case where there is a barrier there?
Also these coatings do claim UV protection as well. (Again, I understand we are out of the wax/sealant realm as commonly discussed).
Thanks for your insight.
DLB
HeavyMetal
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And I see way too many 6 year old cars up here in PA that look like crap. So now what we have is a typical variation in a manufactured product. Some units last for ever others die quickly and others in-between. And your example of a warranty? That's what we in industry called a non-warranty warranty. Why? Because most people will forget about it. And, if you read the fine print, there will be exclusions and qualifications.
So, what we are left with is your opinion. I, along with several others here and elsewhere, obviously do not share that opinion. Feel free to cease waxing or sealing your personal cars and those of your customers. Feel free to tell them it's unecessary. If you really feel that way, then to do anything else is dishonest and ripping off your customers for a process you feel is totally unwarranted.
BobbyG
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I think the point David is trying to make is nothing at all is "necessary", meaning you don't "have" to do anything.
While I'm not he, I don't believe David's telling us not to seal and wax but rather it's a personal choice and it's totally up to the individual to determine for himself how he'd like the finish on his car or truck to look.
There's little argument whether or not there's a huge difference in the finish of a 5 year old finish that's been fully maintained and one that's only seen an occasional wash.
The paint serves as a protectant for the underlying metal. Whether or not you keep it looking new is totally up to you. Is sealing and waxing necessary? NO... Is it advisable?... YES..
At least this is my take on the title..
While I'm not he, I don't believe David's telling us not to seal and wax but rather it's a personal choice and it's totally up to the individual to determine for himself how he'd like the finish on his car or truck to look.
There's little argument whether or not there's a huge difference in the finish of a 5 year old finish that's been fully maintained and one that's only seen an occasional wash.
The paint serves as a protectant for the underlying metal. Whether or not you keep it looking new is totally up to you. Is sealing and waxing necessary? NO... Is it advisable?... YES..
At least this is my take on the title..
cobalt9123
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So according to this logic, washing isn't necessary either. Claying a vehicle is useless. And polishing, well that's just the completete opposite of what you want to do. I hate to tell you chaps, our whole detailing escapade is over. We had a good run though! :laughing:
The next time a customer asks for a detail, I'll tell them their car doesn't need it, it has clearcoat!
The next time a customer asks for a detail, I'll tell them their car doesn't need it, it has clearcoat!
DLB
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I think he is saying more than that. I can't speak for him, but I read him saying that it doesn't help protect.
While that is impossible to argue with (rationally), what about protecting the protection? Is there anything that can do that, and if there is, how does it not help? Are newer paints insusceptible to deterioration (or most paints)? If I knew the paint would never break down and start losing its ability to protect the underlying layer, then I might would agree more readily - but I think that with the paint being a porous membrane, you can and should maintain it, so that it doesn't lose its effectiveness.
That's my take.
I don't think David is saying all of that. He is a successful detailer - I think it is more scientific than that. But that did make me laugh.
DLB
BobbyG
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Hey Dalton,
If this is what David's implying then I'll respectively disagree with him.
I think all of us that have been close to automobiles over the years can easily tell which finishes have been maintained and protected and which ones have not.
Dalton,
Again I agree completely.
Any additional protection certainly can't hurt and as I said above, it's easy to tell which finishes were maintained and protected and which ones have not. This is a testimony to the natural degradation and wear over time and the relentless assault by mother nature.
The finishes that I'm aware of will and do degrade over time therefore it's only a matter of time before these finishes break down and become ineffective. The only way around this is to keep it indoors out of the elements or work religiously to maintain it.
I don't think David is saying all of that. He is a successful detailer - I think it is more scientific than that. But that did make me laugh.
DLB
When I see titles like this I just shake my head because I know what's next! :laughing:
Sometimes I wonder if these guys like to throw something abstract out there to see the types of responses it receives. I remember a while back Mike Phillips started a thread similar to this but I can't remember the title....
HeavyMetal
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I think with his example of the 10 year-old cars he says he's seen, he's trying to take it a bit further.
In a sense I do agree with him. As I noted previously, you don't have to polish, seal or wax your car. That is if you don't mind it looking like a beater in a few years. Will the paint system still protect the car from rust? Probably, they're pretty tough. Will the clear begin to fail? Maybe, we've all seen that. Is the clear and color really guaranteed to last as David claims? Not by the car maker. Take a look at a new car warranty. Paint's only guaranteed for the length of the base warranty and there are exclusions for airborne contamination, road chips, etc, etc.
In sum, David's playing fast and loose by not saying exactly what he means. To what end? I don't know, nor do I much care.