New Guy with Questions

[Swimmer]

As you can guess from the title, I'm new to detailing. I have two cars and a boat all of which I have improperly hand waxed for years (at least according to what I have read in this forum). Now I want to buy a good machine polisher and the wax, etc to go with it to hopefully save some time and energy. My two cars are relatively new, but both have water spots that when I wax I can see them underneath. Nothing I've used seems to get them off, but then I'm a little too tentative to use anything that might smack of abrasiveness. I want my cars to shine and when I get close, see no water spots. My boat has the typical baked in the sun look w/oxidation and little shine, although it is only 5 years old. Would like to bring back some of the old shine without too much effort.

Bottom line, I've read so much in the last two weeks that I'm a bit confused and have two questions:

1 - What is the best polisher to use (not so much into swirl removal as I am into water spot removal). Really like the Flex, but that is only because I admire German engineering. I think it has features that are awesome, but probably more than I need, but may want in the future. Also have looked at the PC and Groits. Not to offend any one, but they look to be the same. Have favored the PC more only because it looks to have more user flexibility.

2 - And then there are the numerous and confusing car kit packages. Please break it down for me in terms of will get rid of the water spots and provide an enduring shine. I was looking at the Pinnacle products, but don't know how abrasive their polishes are. I've also looked at Klasse and the combination with Pinnacle.

I must say it is all overwelming for a new guy. And like I said, I have been reading alot, really too much. Should probably take the plunge and learn from experience. That is where you all come in. Can anyone help me? I know most of you have seen this "thread" before, but I would be most appreciative if you would comment one more time.

Thanks.

 

[BobbyG]

Welcome to Autogeek Online!

After reading and understanding some of the basics, the more hands on your are the quicker you'll build your knowledge and gain experience.

Everyone starts off as a beginner but with some reading, questions, and trial, error, and practice you'll be amazed how much you'll be able to do.

This link contains articles written by Mike Phillips and has allot of great reading within.

Articles by Mike Phillips

Basic steps in order are:

• Wash
• Clay
• Paint Correction & Polish
• Seal
• Wax

Make detailing enjoyable and practice. Take your time and do not become overwhelmed. Just because there are a thousand product doesn't mean you have to use them all.

Pick one product from each category from the steps above. You already have some great waxes so you're that far ahead of the game..

Autogeek has a kit section that contains everything you need to get started.


Kit Page

Car Care Kits, Car Care Cleaning Kits, Complete Detailing Kits

Decent kit

Pinnacle Twins & Meguiar's G110v2 Dual Action Polisher Kit FREE BONUS

Much better kit

Menzerna Porter Cable XP Maximum Shine Kit FREE BONUS

Flex Kit

If I were in the market for a kit this would be the one I'd choose.
Pinnacle Flex XC3401 Polishing & Swirl Remover kit, Pinnacle polishes, swirl removers, finishing polish, flex buffer


One Step Product

Menzerna Sealing Wax

Menzerna Sealing Wax APO 60, Menzerna APO 60, Menzerna wax

Meguiar's D151

Meguiars Paint Reconditioning Cream D151


Sealants

Menzerna Power Lock Paint Sealant

Menzerna Power Lock Polymer Paint Sealant, Menzerna auto sealant, car sealant, paint sealant protectant

Other quality sealants

• Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant
• Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze
• DP Poli-Coat Paint Sealant

Wax

Collinite 845

Collinite Liquid Insulator Wax #845, liquid wax, heat-resistant wax, car wax

Pinnacle Signature Series ll

Pinnacle Signature Series II Carnauba Paste Wax will give you a deep, wet finish will exceed your expectations. car wax, carnauba paste wax, pinnacle

Detailer’s Pro Series Max Wax

DP Max Wax- Made with pure carnauba wax and advanced polymers.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Wow Bobby! Way to share links!

Here's what I would add... when it comes to water spots they are either topical like a mineral deposit "on" the surface, or they are an etching "in" the paint. It sounds like you have etchings in the paint and if so the only way to remove them is to abrade the paint and remove a little bit of the top surface until the highest points of the surface are level with the lowest depths of the etchings.

Then don't let it happen again or the cycle will repeat itself.


The Griot's Garage DA Polisher has the most power, the Porter Cable has the longest history of reliability, if you're using 5.5" pads you'll finish the car in about the same amount of time with either of the tools. The Griot's will do a better job of keeping a pad rotating under pressure on non-flat surfaces and it does beat out the PC in this area and modern cars have lots of curves and body lines, (non-flat surfaces), so this is a benefit.

Griot's offers a lifetime warranty so if there is a quality issue they'll replace it. With my limited experience in customer service I always tell people if they're the type that gets upset if a tool breaks then get the PC, if you take things in stride and don't mind going through whatever the process is to get a repair or replacement, then take a look at the Griot's unit.

The PC is pretty much bullet-proof, I know we deal with more returns for the Griot's unit than the PC so check your personality type and then make your choice. The Flex 3401 is a lot more powerful than both but a totally different type of feel when using it as it's a direct drive, forced rotation tool, power with safety as I like to say.

Here's some info on water spots from my list of articles, you can find the link in my Signature Line

Water Spots

3- Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III

How To Remove Sprinkler Water Spots

How to remove water spots by hand


Here's a car Jon aka P.A.R. Detailing and I buffed out last week using Pinnacle and the Advanced Swirl Remover works great for a medium strength polish, it's no where near as aggressive as a true compound and very easy to use and get great results from.

1956 Pontiac Star Chief Convertible

 

[BobbyG]

Wow Bobby! Way to share links!

Thank you, thank you very much! My Elvis impression!

I've learned this from some of the more "familiar faces" on Autogeek.

It makes too much sense NOT to do this and for newer members it helps minimize some of the confusion. Providing links also makes it a cinch for immediate access to the information in the article without allot of fuss.

 

[HeavyMetal]

As you can guess from the title, I'm new to detailing. I have two cars and a boat all of which I have improperly hand waxed for years (at least according to what I have read in this forum). Now I want to buy a good machine polisher and the wax, etc to go with it to hopefully save some time and energy. My two cars are relatively new, but both have water spots that when I wax I can see them underneath.

I was in the same spot as you a few months ago. I read everything I could find and viewed all the videos on this site and others. I'll save you some time, stick with Mike P's articles and videos that Bobby G linked above.

As far as a polisher, I'd pick the Porter Cable. Yes, the Griot's has a little more power and the lifetime guarantee, but as Mike points out, AG has more returns. After using the PC, it has more than enuf power to do the job. If you really wanna spend the bucks for the absolute best, then go with the Flex. But I doubt that a hobbyist really needs that.

For polishing products, I'm an unapologetic Wolfgang fan. I read a lot of posts before I made my choice, and while these are a bit more expensive than others, they are almost foolproof. I had zero experience with a DA other than some practice a few weeks ago with some wax, and I had NO PROBLEM using the Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and Finishing Glaze (really a light final polish). I followed that up with Menzerna PowerLock sealant, which is repeatedly mentioned on several forums as one of the nicest and longest lasting sealants. I topped that off with Collinite 845 wax to tone down the plastic look of the sealant and add a bit more protection.

For pads, I'd recommend the Lake Country 5.5" flat pads. As many note, DA's have an easier time spinning these smaller pads than the bigger 6.5. I bought quite a few pads, but if I had it to do over I'd buy just one 6 pak - 1 orange, 2 white, and 2 grey and 1 blue pad. I used white for the TSR, grey for the FG and blue for wax. The Menz Powerlock comes with a free red pad that's just fine for that product.

If you clean your pads on the fly like Mike shows, you can probably get away with one or two pads per polish step. I managed to get by with just one white pad for the TSR and one grey for the FG. But I kept the pads very clean by cleaning every two panels.

You will likely need the heavier TSR polish to get rid of the water spots. Fortunately, I didn't have that problem. Just some slight swirls and hairlines from washing and driving the car for 3 years. It happens, no way to avoid it.

I got my microfiber towels at Wally World and Autozone. While others may feel the cheaper towels aren;t up to the quality, I found them to be just fine. Ditto for by microfiber wash mitt and wheel brushes.

If you wanna save a few bucks, wait until the products go on BOGO (buy one, get one) here. I did that and have enuf product to last me a few years.

Best of luck to you. Just make sure you read Mike's articles, view the videos and UNDERSTAND his processes BEFORE you pick up a DA. If you do that, you'll be fine.

 

[Swimmer]

Thanks to both of you for the words and links. I'll go do my homework assignment, but before I go I have couple more quick questions.

Bobby, you mentioned clay, yet that is not part of the flex kit mentioned. I had taken a look at that kit and was sold until I read more about using clay which is not part of that kit. Is that something really necessary. I mean I take really good care of my cars, but then I'm not working show cars. My cars are work cars I just want to look good without the water spots. As for my boat, I certainly won't go through the whole process you mentioned. Not enough hours in the day.

Mike, you had some real good words. I know it gets boring to tell the same thing over and over to all the new guys that come on the forum, but I do appreciate those words. My question about the flex and it's forced drive system. Other than cost, is that something a novice detailer can learn on and become comfortable with, or is it a polisher you take on once you've leared the polishing ropes? Also, I've heard it rotates opposite the other polishers. Is that something easy to deal with?

Again, appreciate all the info. I'll work on my homework next. Thanks guys.

 

[Swimmer]

HeavyMetal, I just got your reply. Thanks for the great info! I check out the Wolfgang product line.

Forgot to ask Mike, how do you keep the water spotting from happening again. Is the twice a year polishing/waxing enough? I previoiusly waxed twice a year without the polishing. There's is only enough room in my garage for one car, but even so it has to get out in the rain sometime.

Thanks again. You all are helping clear my head again. Now back to the homework.

 

[HeavyMetal]

Bobby, you mentioned clay...

Definitely clay before you polish or wax. You'll be amazed at the crud you get off your car after you wash it. It doesn't take that long. I did my RAV4 in like 30 min. I wash, leave it wet and clay. I mist the car with some watered-down No Rinse car wash as a lube. Very easy.

Keeping your car waxed and/or sealed with high quality products will help prevent the etched water spots you got. But you still can't leave a car get wet, dry out and not clean off the surface residue. That residue will eventually etch thru wax, sealant and into your paint. If you have spots on the car, take some Quick Detailer and wipe it off or wash it, of course.

 

[HeavyMetal]

One more comment, I'd clean an area and get a good close-up shot of the water spots and upload for Mike to take a look. If you get a good shot, he should be able to give you some idea of what it's gonna take to get them out.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, you had some real good words. I know it gets boring to tell the same thing over and over to all the new guys that come on the forum, but I do appreciate those words. My question about the flex and it's forced drive system.

Other than cost, is that something a novice detailer can learn on and become comfortable with, or is it a polisher you take on once you've leared the polishing ropes? Also, I've heard it rotates opposite the other polishers. Is that something easy to deal with?

Let me get back to you tomorrow... have to go to a car show tonight...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

My question about the flex and it's forced drive system. Other than cost, is that something a novice detailer can learn on and become comfortable with, or is it a polisher you take on once you've leared the polishing ropes?

It's easy to learn how to use, actually, it teaches you to hold the pad flat because if you tilt it or put too much pressure to one side of the pad it will try to walk on you and it's this walking action that is fixed by simply adjusting your hold so the pad is flat, so it self-teaches you.

Also, I've heard it rotates opposite the other polishers. Is that something easy to deal with?

The pad on the Flex 3401 does rotate opposite of a rotary buffer but it really doesn't make a difference as far as using it.

Forgot to ask Mike, how do you keep the water spotting from happening again. Is the twice a year polishing/waxing enough?

I previously waxed twice a year without the polishing. There's is only enough room in my garage for one car, but even so it has to get out in the rain sometime.

Keep water from drying on the paint is the best way, besides that, keep a good coat of wax, paint sealant or a coating on the paint.

3-Categories: Waxes, Paint Sealants and Coatings

Thanks again. You all are helping clear my head again. Now back to the homework.

It's usually best to introduce yourself in the "Introduction Forum Group" and then ask questions in a forum group dedicated for "questions".

By using this approach you'll get a lot more feedback because many members don't visit the "Introduction Forum Group" to answer questions, it's where we "welcome new members".


Here's a good place to post questions...

Auto Detailing 101


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