My thoughts on the PCXP Menzerna max shine kit

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Lurchalicious

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So starting off I will say that I understand all cars are different and I know that my02 VW has a clear coat that is hard to work, but

I have been using the PCXP in 18"sq sections with intensive polish and a white CCS pad that came with the kit. I went with this kit as I heard it was one of the best for harder paints. However I have to ask, why a 5" back plate with 6.5" pads? there is no, i say NO rotational force after 3 section passes and on vertical surfaces dont even try -I have to take weight away just to get the pad to spin (which is probably the cause of the paragraph below) - why do they include such big pads with this kit? for that matter why 6.5" pads with the PCXP?

I have to say I am more than frustrated at this point and it has taken 2 sets of 6 section passes on an 18" sq area to remove swirls, and not even all the swirls are gone. There is still oxidation and scratches all over even after using the intensive polish and white pad. I really wish they would have put an orange pad in this kit - especially when you pay 280 dollars, you would think to have a kit that should be complete, it would have one.


I think Menzerna is great product, but for this "maximum shine" kit - it really needs an orange pad
 
i just used menzerna power finish with white 5.5 inch pads and pcxp. i didnt buy any kits cause most are sold with 6.5 inch pads. i think they should give you an option to choose pad sizes you want. i also use super intensive polish and super finish nano. i also am only using flat pads. orange pad is a must for heavier blemishes.
 
I am with you on this one. I also bought the PCXP kit here and feel like I was sold pads too big for my backing plate. It was my first into to car detailing so I didn't know any better.
 
yeah i just bought everything separately, it seemed like a better deal. PCXP ($125), 6 LC Flat 5.5" pads of my choice ($42), and 3 menzerna polishes 32 oz ($125). Total $292
 
jslym777 said:
yeah i just bought everything separately, it seemed like a better deal. PCXP ($125), 6 LC Flat 5.5" pads of my choice ($42), and 3 menzerna polishes 32 oz ($125). Total $292
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wish i had done that :( - only got 3 pads in the kit, 3 polishes and the pcxp

max - any more info on how you came to dislike the ccs pad?
 
i feel like they put the 6.5 inch pads in the kits because they dont really sell otherwise. AG def needs to inventory less 6.5 inch pads and more 5.5 inch and allow people to choose which pads they prefer with the kit. the experts here at AG even suggest using 5.5 inch pads with the PCXP so why sell them with the kit? To sell more products make more money?
 
Lurchalicious said:
wish i had done that :( - only got 3 pads in the kit, 3 polishes and the pcxp

max - any more info on how you came to dislike the ccs pad?
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I have just used it one time. It was the 6.5" red pad that I got free with something. I used it to spread a LSP and I could see little circles where the product was not touching the paint. I probably didn't use it long enough and made a quick judgement on the pad, but I have not tried to use it since. :rolleyes:
 
I don't know what it is with AG and the 6.5" pads, and the CCS too boot. There are plenty of forum posts noting that DA's, and particularly the PC, work better with 5.5 FLAT pads. I was lucky/smart (whichever way you wish to look at it) and read almost every post on every product before I bought.

As I said on a similar thread, this is one of those rare places were AG needs to do a better job of education and offer the 5.5 flats as standard with an explanation. Perhaps as Mike P notes in his videos, they offer the 6.5 because they feel it's a safety issue to keep people from bumping the backing plate into trim and edges. My take on that is don't polish if you're careless or spastic. I had no probs and I was polishing around the roof rack, mirrors, lights, etc on my RAV4. It's really not that hard if you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Sorry for the long-winded peeve. Get the 5.5 flat pads. :buffing::buffing:

BTW, if you keep the pads clean I've found you only need ONE pad per step on small to medium size cars. But then I use dilute car wash (DP No Rinse) as a pad conditioner, spraying the pad several times between panels and using Mike P's on-the-fly cleaning technique. If you do it right, you can keep a pad clean. Not sure if it's my technique or the DP NR doing most of the cleaning. Don't really care; it works.
 
Flash Gordon said:
Don't cuss me, but why didn't you buy the Griots
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Not sure who you directed that at, but the reasons I didn't by the Griot's are the comments that the PC had plenty enuf power when used with 5.5 pads, Mike P's comment that they see a lot more returns of the Griot's and I got a great AG price-match deal on it. I've used the PC 4 times now with 5.5 pads and have no problems. Works just fine and produces GREAT results with the pad/polish combo I use. That's all that matters to me.
 
With 5.5" diameter pads that are thin, the Porter Cable is completely capable of maintaining pad rotation when used correctly.

Used correctly means holding the pad flat to the surface, not at an angle with more pressure applied to one side of the pad.

It also means that you're not pushing down so hard that you're bending the panel you're buffing on.

One thing for sure, hundreds of thousands of cars have been buffed out with the first generation Porter Cable polishers and we're on the way with hundreds of thousands of even more cars being polished out with Porter Cable XP versions, which are much better able to maintain pad rotation over the first generation units and I know first hand as I've buffed out hundreds of cars with the first gen and plenty enough with the new XP model to know the difference.

The Griot's has more power but the build quality is not as high as the PC, that's just the facts, the lifetime warranty makes up for it but if and when it does break on you, don't get upset, just follow the path to replacement.

Better yet, have more than one tool, after you purchase one tool, plan on adding a rotary buffer like the Flex PE 14 or the Flex 3401, both of these are powerful and reliable tools that will last longer than you...


:)
 
I like the PC as well , it has plenty of power for 5.5" pads
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
With 5.5" diameter pads that are thin, the Porter Cable is completely capable of maintaining pad rotation when used correctly.

Used correctly means holding the pad flat to the surface, not at an angle with more pressure applied to one side of the pad.

It also means that you're not pushing down so hard that you're bending the panel you're buffing on.

...

The Griot's has more power but the build quality is not as high as the PC, that's just the facts...
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I'll take your word on the build quality versus GG (I did!), that's a main reason I went with PC. I can say that I'm quite impressed with the tool, and I've used a lot of tools in industry. The PC certainly is industrial quality.

I will take very slight exception to maintaining rotation. I think it's a good bit easier than Mike says. While the PC is somewhat sensitive to angle of attack, I really have no probs with it when tilted slightly (like maybe 20 deg) and, at least to my feel, you have to be pretty far off in pressure to stop it - like 70/30? - just a guess.

I find the PC to be a very well-balanced tool that is very easy to operate and provides excellent feedback allowing the user to easily see and feel the proper pressure.
 
I have the first generation Porter Cable 7424

PC7424.jpg


I can't remember what size pad it came with but I don't think it was a 6 1/2 inch.

Like many here and elsewhere we all learn through reading and trial & error. I learned "after" I bought the 6 1/2 inch CCS pads that they were just too big to be effective in both aggressiveness and efficiency.

Once I tried the 5 1/2 inch flat pads with the appropriate backing plate it was like having a polisher on steroids compared to using the 6 1/2 inch variety.

Since then I've added a few machines to my stable, left to right;

  • Porter Cable 7424
  • Makita 9227
  • Flex 3401
  • Flex PE14-2-150

Collection_RD18.jpg


Both the rotary polishers; Makita 9227 and the Flex PE14-2-150 make easy use of the 6 1/2 inch pads I bought.

The Flex 3401 dual action polisher muscles the 6 1/2 inch pads around without working up any sweat at all.

I do all my sealant applications using the Porter Cable 7424 and either a 6 1/2 inch gray or red pad and it does this effortlessly.

I have a decent supply of both 5 1/2 flat pads as well as the 4 inch variety for smaller jobs or tight spots, so the machine does get used......allot!

i can't answer the question regarding why the 6 1/2 inch pads are offered with these machines because in my opinion and many others they shouldn't be....
 
Has anyone addressed why they sell the PC kits with 6.5 inch pads when they recommend using 5.5 inch pads with them? Thats why I didnt buy a kit. If it's a safety reason that's a bad excuse because with the 6.5 inch it doesn't produce enough rotation to do anything, there is way too much surface area. Kinda like selling an electric carving knife with butterknife blades.
 
agreed

I bought everything separately too. It's important to read the articles on here before jumping in. Either that or post your wish list and let the senior guys give their opinions.
 
jslym777 said:
because with the 6.5 inch it doesn't produce enough rotation to do anything, there is way too much surface area. Kinda like selling an electric carving knife with butterknife blades.
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Great Point!

Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.

The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction your really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2 inch pad and the 7 inch pad...........Size does matter!

Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²

Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²

Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²

There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving it's overall performance.
 
haha thank you for taking the time to mathematically explain my point, no it does not change the frictional resistance of the actual surfaces but increasing the diameter of the pad increases the amount of force it takes to move the pad from a static position and the 6.5 inch pads definitely want to stay in static position haha.
 
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