Topping a LSP

[galaxy]

So, I'm sure this question or one similar has been asked, but here goes.

Started another thread about trying a different LSP process got me thinking of another question...

Do you guys top an already LSP?? I use BFWD anyways and had topped it in the past with SSII and now thinking about trying BFMS to top it. BUT, is that even necessary?? What do you base the decision on to do something like this? Is it based off looks, protection, both, etc?

 

[rider9195]

If it's a customers car I always ask if they want a carnauba topped to give some wetness. But I have topped Midnight Sun over Wet Diamond multiple times and love it. I feel like the MS adds extra durability and awesome looks.

If you have the time to do it, go for it :dblthumb2:

 

[Jimmie]

I absolutely do it. Always have. My car I used to top Klasse AIO with Liquid Souveran because I thought KAIO was too plastic looking. I wanted the warm wet glow of a nuba. I've since switched to topping with WG DGPS which is real close to a nuba look. Then I top that with WG Spritz Sealant at times. I've never been too concerned about durability since I'm always applying something, lol.

 

[05xrunner]

i have BFWD and MS..I just put another coat of MS on the car tonight..I dont care about durability since its a garage queen i go for looks and wetness of the paint.

 

[Kurt_s]

My standard is to use a sealant (WGDGPS) as a base coat, then use a carnauba or carnauba-hybrid wax as a topper after the sealant cures (~24 hours). My goal is 6 month durability for DDs with a specific look. I want the car to stay looking clean between car washes. Some waxes collect dirt very quickly and some don't. If you are experimenting with finishes and change wax weekly, you may have different expectations than me.

You can do the same thing with different waxes. Some waxes are more durable and some have a higher oil content (or other component) to give a wetter look but may not last longer than a few days or a week.

99.9% of the cars that I play with today have a CC finish, but I grew up with SS paints which have their own characteristics and preferences. I personally prefer a finishing glaze and carnauba wax with SS paints, but I used plenty of synthetic waxes and sealants from the 60's (dad's cars) on.

My suggestion is to define your needs, then find something that you like and use it often. It doesn't have to be the best in other people's eyes unless your car is being judged at a car show.

My other observation is 95-99% of the finish is prewax. You can't make a silk purse from cow's ear. Get the prewax step perfect and the wax is the bling.

 

[Trevor]

My standard is to use a sealant (WGDGPS) as a base coat, then use a carnauba or carnauba-hybrid wax as a topper after the sealant cures (~24 hours). My goal is 6 month durability for DDs with a specific look. I want the car to stay looking clean between car washes. Some waxes collect dirt very quickly and some don't. If you are experimenting with finishes and change wax weekly, you may have different expectations than me.

You can do the same thing with different waxes. Some waxes are more durable and some have a higher oil content (or other component) to give a wetter look but may not last longer than a few days or a week.

99.9% of the cars that I play with today have a CC finish, but I grew up with SS paints which have their own characteristics and preferences. I personally prefer a finishing glaze and carnauba wax with SS paints, but I used plenty of synthetic waxes and sealants from the 60's (dad's cars) on.

My suggestion is to define your needs, then find something that you like and use it often. It doesn't have to be the best in other people's eyes unless your car is being judged at a car show.

My other observation is 95-99% of the finish is prewax. You can't make a silk purse from cow's ear. Get the prewax step perfect and the wax is the bling.

Agree with all of this. My cars are DD's so I start with a sealant, then play with different waxes that I know will wear quickly under the circumstances (daily driving, crazy heat, sitting outside most of the day while at work). I'm using WG3.0 sealant, followed by sig series ii or souveran on more special occasions. Switching to powerlock followed by 915 for the winter here in a few months.

Funny thing is, as mentioned above regarding the prewax step, twice now I have clayed, polished, and used p21s paintwork cleanser and truly felt the LSP added (especially the sealant) added almost nothing to the look I already had. I was pretty much just protecting it at that point. Granted the topper warmed it up a little and maybe a bit more shimmer, but still it was clear that the vast majority of what I was seeing was prepwork, not the LSP.

 

[Kurt_s]

Yup. Prep work is the key; however sometimes the LSP (or glaze) can hide defects as well.

Agree with all of this. My cars are DD's so I start with a sealant, then play with different waxes that I know will wear quickly under the circumstances (daily driving, crazy heat, sitting outside most of the day while at work). I'm using WG3.0 sealant, followed by sig series ii or souveran on more special occasions. Switching to powerlock followed by 915 for the winter here in a few months.

Funny thing is, as mentioned above regarding the prewax step, twice now I have clayed, polished, and used p21s paintwork cleanser and truly felt the LSP added (especially the sealant) added almost nothing to the look I already had. I was pretty much just protecting it at that point. Granted the topper warmed it up a little and maybe a bit more shimmer, but still it was clear that the vast majority of what I was seeing was prepwork, not the LSP.

 

[CEE DOG]

So, I'm sure this question or one similar has been asked, but here goes.

Started another thread about trying a different LSP process got me thinking of another question...

Do you guys top an already LSP?? I use BFWD anyways and had topped it in the past with SSII and now thinking about trying BFMS to top it. BUT, is that even necessary?? What do you base the decision on to do something like this? Is it based off looks, protection, both, etc?

It depends on the situation, vehicle, expectations, and time.

One thing I'll say is it is impossible to top an lsp (last step product) If you top it than it isn't an lsp. I know what you mean but everyone uses this term and it often seems like it's really not an lsp. This term needs to be replaced by IPS and FPS. IPS meaning Initial Protection Step and FPS meaning Final Protection Step. :bolt:

Then we could say how many FPS were you applying your FPS? :laughing:

Your thread would have been titled "Is your IPS your FPS?"

I think I will use those terms from now on.

 

[FUNX650]

It depends on the situation, vehicle, expectations, and time.

One thing I'll say is it is impossible to top an lsp (last step product) If you top it than it isn't an lsp. I know what you mean but everyone uses this term and it often seems like it's really not an lsp. This term needs to be replaced by IPS and FPS. IPS meaning Initial Protection Step and FPS meaning Final Protection Step. :bolt:

Then we could say how many FPS were you applying your FPS? :laughing:

Your thread would have been titled "Is your IPS your FPS?"

I think I will use those terms from now on.

What a novel approach and definition you have on "layering"!


I would ask:

-How does one prepare a paint surface in order to achieve maximum bonding/effectiveness to/with a wax/sealant/'hybrid'/coating (if I dare, may I call them: protection products)? Is it always "squeaky clean"?
-How does one prepare a layer of a protection product in order to achieve maximum bonding with the "next layer"?
-Will an additional layer(s) of the above protection products actually bond to the immediate underlying protection product?
-Would the characteristics of any preceding protection product layer impede that bonding?
-What is the measurable thickness of a layer of a given protection product?
-What has caused this "layering phenomenom"?


Not too long ago there were concerns with the "build-up" of protection products on a vehicle's paint caused by layering....Just saying.

Bob

 

[galaxy]

I'm mainly curious if I really gain anything by adding the MS on top of the WD, be it looks or protection. I don't know why I have this nagging feeling that I just have to put something on top of two coats of WD???!!!

I also know it simply can come down to personal preference. I have yet to try stopping with the WD. Considering how my vehicles are treated (DD's, but always garaged, washed, bla, bla, bla with the best of them...far from treated like DD's.), I like a product I can add a coat on now and then when I'm just in the mood. SSII doesn't seem to be the right product for this process...or at least it's not working for me that way. It seems to preferr a full up prep before you add a coat.

And I would imagine this may be in part to a system approach...I'm guessing WD and MS are probably engineered to work together in some fashion. Most likely more so that what I'm currently trying.

 

[CEE DOG]

What a novel approach and definition you have on "layering"!


I would ask:

-How does one prepare a paint surface in order to achieve maximum bonding/effectiveness to/with a wax/sealant/'hybrid'/coating (if I dare, may I call them: protection products)? Is it always "squeaky clean"?
-How does one prepare a layer of a protection product in order to achieve maximum bonding with the "next layer"?
-Will an additional layer(s) of the above protection products actually bond to the immediate underlying protection product?
-Would the characteristics of any preceding protection product layer impede that bonding?
-What is the measurable thickness of a layer of a given protection product?
-What has caused this "layering phenomenom"?


Not too long ago there were concerns with the "build-up" of protection products on a vehicle's paint caused by layering....Just saying.

Bob

I think whether or not one will bond to the other varies among products and in many cases is a waste of time. I don't generally layer IP and FP They are usually one and the same for me.

With UPGP I believe the layers do bond to each other. I'm sure it does with some other sealants as well. With products like the Duragloss line layering is designed into some of their products.

When I use UPGP I will place 3 layers of UPGP on my Sky 12 hrs apart and then a month or so down the line I layer it with a wax or something. When I apply the wax I wash the car properly but do not strip the protection. Does the wax bond to it? Yes, I think so because the water characteristics change and I'm sure the wax didn't remove the polymer allthough the waxes in some solvents are probably strong enough to do so. Does it bond as well as it would have if the wax had been placed on a stripped sealant free finish? I don't know.

Can you layer one wax over another wax? I don't do so because I believe that in most cases the second layer just removes the first.

I do think you can usually layer a wax over a sealant though. But if the paint is properly polished I'm not sure what that does for you other than retain more dust...

I used to boost my LSP with DG AW often but don't anymore. It certainly bonds for a little while.

 

[FUNX650]

I think whether or not one will bond to the other varies among products and in many cases is a waste of time. I don't generally layer IP and FP They are usually one and the same for me.

:iagree:

.....wax over a sealant....if the paint is properly polished I'm not sure what that does for you other than retain more dust...

:iagree:

Quite a conundrum....to layer or not to layer.

For Me: Once the paint is prepped to my satisfication; and, if a single layer of a protection product (meaning: a "sacrificial barrier") doesn't seem to foot the bill; then, I no longer will apply it to my paint.

Waste of time and product. That all adds up to: waste of money, IMO.

Bob

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Started another thread about trying a different LSP process got me thinking of another question...

I think it was you're other thread, and/or this one that reminded me I wrote an article about this back in 2004. I re-wrote it today... I have some pictures to add but can't get to them till probably next week. I added some fun pictures that the text explains...


Topping - Definition - How to Top also called Topping


An early car wash and detail shop