Hi Michael,
Must have missed your first questions, I was out of the country in
Germany since last week and then upon returning was offline till yesterday, (Thursday, October 6th), I try to keep up with the forum as much as I can but alas it's sometimes hard to do.
I just received some Terryclothe and Microfiber Bonnets from autogeek.
The Terryclothe feels real Stiff and Hard; Seems like it will scratch soft jetblack BMW
Paint?? Do I need to wash them first?
Any thoughts?? Is it safe to use??
Thanks in Advance,
Michael
Yes. Wash them first. That kind of goes for most products made out of cotton. For example, a cotton T-shirt will feel softer as will a cotton bath towel after you wash it a few times.
Sizing
I'm not an expert in the textile manufacturing industry but years ago I did do a little research into cotton and if I remember correctly there is a process performed to cotton raw material referred to as sizing. Sizing is where a substance is applied to the fiber for a variety of reasons but one of them is to give it strength throughout the rest of the manufacturing processes to create the finished product.
I looked up sizing on Google and that led me to Wikipedia for some information on sizing as it pertains to the manufacturing of paper. You can also find it referenced as a process for manufacture raw cotton material here but it doesn't go into the depth of the process when used for textiles as much as it explains about the process for sizing toward paper materials but I'm pretty sure the chemicals, process and functions are similar.
From Wikipedia: Sizing
Surface sizing
Surface sizing solutions consists of mainly modified starches and sometimes other hydrocolloids, such as gelatine, or surface sizing agents such as AKD or acrylic co-polymers.
Surface sizing agents are amphipathic molecules, having both hydrophilic (water-loving) and hydrophobic (water-repelling) ends. The sizing agent covers the cellulose and forms a film, with the hydrophilic tail facing the fiber and the hydrophobic tail facing outwards. This creates a water-repellent situation.
Sizing improves the surface strength, printability, and water resistance of the paper surface. In the sizing solution, optical brightening agents (OBA) may also be added to improve the opacity and whiteness of the paper surface.
My guess is that like most cotton products, the toweling used to sew the bonnets has been through some type of sizing process to maintain the quality of the cotton fibers as it moves from a raw material to a finished product.
Washing with a detergent laundry soap should remove the sizing as it does with most cotton towels and apparel products.
That is Correct.
They are really rough; Like sandpaper--Almost.
I have the bonnets mentioned right here on my desk and I think to describe them as feeling like sandpaper, which is sand glued to paper is a little bit of a reach. I would agree the cotton material doesn't feel as soft as a cotton towel that has been washed and broken-in, but it doesn't scratch my face when it rub it against my skin.
Absolutely Not!! I just find it Ironic/Troubling that a "Legitimate" seller--Autogeeks--
Would sell these advertized as :
Bonnets are fabric pad covers used to buff off waxes and polishes with your polisher or buffer. microfiber bonnet, micro fiber bonnet, terry cloth
The terry bonnet is 100% soft, absorbent cotton, like the traditional terry towels (back in the days before microfiber took over) that were used in a variety of ways, safely, on the surface of the car: Drying, applying or buffing away a wax or polish. Whether polishing or waxing, a terry bonnet can serve the same purpose; but, instead of your arm and hand doing the majority of the work, the polisher or buffer will.
That whole paragraph is a Big Misrepresentation that if followed would absolutely Destroy you Paint finish!!
Let me break the above down... :xyxthumbs:
The terry bonnet is 100% soft, absorbent cotton, like the traditional terry towels (back in the days before microfiber took over) that were used in a variety of ways, safely, on the surface of the car: Drying, applying or buffing away a wax or polish.
That is an accurate statement. This cotton is 100% soft, absorbent cotton, like a traditional terry cloth towel used
back in the days before microfiber was introduced and became the new standard for the softest material to work on delicate automotive finishes.
Before microfiber was introduced I used nothing but 100% cotton on every car I buffed out and all my work came out swirl and scratch free. Cotton might not be as gentle to paint as microfiber but it can work if used correctly and I have years of experience using it correctly.
"Back in the days" also can be a reference to back to a time before modern basecoat/clearcoat paints were the norm. As I document in my
e-book, the car has only been around roughly 100 years and 70 to 80 of those years we had single stage paints. We've only had basecoat/clearcoat paints around since the 1980's and microfiber wiping towels were introduced to mainstream car detailing world sometime in the 1990's.
So for most of our
car history, and that includes our
detailing history, cotton toweling was the accepted norm, in fact the best toweling you could get was referred to 100% Turkish Cotton Toweling.
Whether polishing or waxing, a terry bonnet can serve the same purpose; but, instead of your arm and hand doing the majority of the work, the polisher or buffer will.
The above is an accurate statement also. It's talking about using a cotton bonnet over a buffing pad attached to a machine to remove wax instead of the normal way by wiping with your arm.
There are no claims that cotton is softer than microfiber and as others have already stated, in their experience, opinion and knowledge of "wiping materials", microfiber is more gentle to delicate clear coat paints than cotton.
Choice
Here at Autogeek we like to offer a wide selection of products as we know that one of the things that makes human being different is our
uniqueness. Some people like Coke, some people like Pepsi and it doesn't matter what you or I think they have their own personal preferences.
Some people choose microfiber and some choose cotton, we don't try to tell anyone what's best for them, we let them decide but we do as a service, offer both options.
I use and recommend 100% cotton terry cloth towels to
clean pads on the fly as the nap, that is the tiny loop of cotton that makes terry cloth what it is, helps to slice into the gunk that builds up on the face of your buffing pads and get it off. It does this better than any microfiber towel I've ever used so that's why I use it and recommend it.
I also use terry cloth towels to wipe of compounding residue for the same reason. Cotton towels are not as gentle to painted finishes as microfiber towels but after the compounding step I'm still going to polish and it is at this stage I switch over to microfiber. Sometimes I'm looking for speed and effectiveness and sometimes I'm looking for the best product for the job. For the same reason the nap of terry cloth will remove gunk off the face of a foam pad better that a flat weave or a fluffy weave towel, it will also slice into and remove compounding residue off paint faster. It might leave toweling scratches but these are very shallow and will buff out during the machine polishing process so for me it's a non issue plus even if I use cotton towels to wipe off compound residue, I'm still very careful and use clean, high quality terry cloth towels. It's not like I'm using some caveman technique to work on cars I buff out.
I guess I'm shocked that a Reputable Company would make such a Glaring error.
I have not had a chance to contact then yet to make them aware of the Problem and also to get my Refund on the ones I purchased.
I ordered from this site because Mike/and/or Owner said they only sell items that work.
That means alot to a Novice detailer like myself.
We appreciate your bringing your issue to the discussion forum just as much as we appreciate your business and the opportunity to make sure you're a satisfied customer.
Autogeek is a reputable company as our history proves, even this thread proves.
Detailing is a learning process
I've been detailing cars longer than sometimes I care to remember and I'm still always learning and I always advocate to others to be continually learning otherwise you'll be left behind in this industry.
My point is if you or anyone is not familiar with the characteristic differences between cotton and microfiber than that's just another segment of information to obtain, here you go...
Generally speaking, microfiber towels are more gentle to delicate automotive finishes than cotton towels. It's not that cotton is evil, it's just a material. Microfiber as the name implies is made of fibers that are microscopic in size and it is this characteristic plus others, that makes them less aggressive, or less abrasive as well as more effective at removing trace residues than fibers that are much larger in size.
Proof of the above is the fact that most people
in the know choose microfiber towels for removing compounds, polishes, waxes, paint sealants, paint coatings, drying cars, applying paint care products, applying and removing dressings, glass cleaners, etc. You name the process and there's likely a microfiber product marketed for the job.
We're still going to offer some cotton items, including bonnets for people who choose, out of personal preference to use cotton.
We don't say it's better than microfiber, that's your decision but that's a decision that comes from first education, and then experience, probably two things that are taking place right now in your detailing journey and perhaps others reading this thread. Of course, sometimes the reverse happens you get experience followed by education.
I'm going to take 3-4 of these cotton bonnets and wash and dry them here at Autogeek today and then I'll compare how washed and dried bonnets feel next to unwashed bonnets and post what I find. I don't have any fabric softener here at work and maybe I'll even pick some up because while it's not recommended to use a fabric softener with microfiber towels it is recommended to be used with cotton towels as it makes the fibers softer, which is a good thing when it comes to using cotton on automotive finishes.
When looking around stores in the auto section, they always have at least one terry cloth towel. And they always feel rough, with thick hard fibers. I don't see how they could be remotely useful for anything other than scrubbing grease off an engine. I wouldn't even use them for my interior.
I would stay away.
The cotton towels sold in the car wax aisle of any auto parts store are usually the bottom of the barrel as far as quality goes, I know, I'm a car guy, I've been going to auto parts stores and specifically the wax aisle since I was old enough to drive and in Oregon that was the age of 15 which means in 1976 for me. I'm here to back you up on your statement that most, if not all the terry cloth towels sold at auto parts stores are really only good for cleaning door jambs or other surfaces that are not scratch sensitive.
On the other hand, I've used some very, very high quality cotton towels in my life from specialty manufactures of cotton wiping towels.
Cotton is also recommended for specific tasks because it's NOT as effective as microfiber. Just goes to show that sometimes the best product for one job isn't the best product for every job.
Here at Autogeek we want our customer to be happy and satisfied with the products we sell and the customer support we provide. I'll send the link to your thread to all of our Customer Care Support Staff so they will be aware of this issue. If you feel after examining the cotton bonnets and reading through my answers to your questions that cotton bonnets are not the right bonnets for your detailing project then I and everyone here encourages you to call us and we promise you we will go above and beyond the call of duty to make things right.
1-800-869-3011
