I'm seeing many people use 845IW as a topper??????

I'm up for a test also.....I'll use my company truck....stays outside 24/7 and does not get much love at all.

I'm no Corey but I'll jump on this this weekend.

1/2 of the hood in 845 as a stand alone
1/2 of the hood in my favorite combo DG501/601/105/601/845

the vehical is a crew cab Chevy truck in White with 256,000 miles on it...no correction work will be done, just wash and clay then to lsp,as said above.

This could take some time as the combo will out last the 845 only .

I will do my BEST to show the proccess and like I said I'm not Corey but I'll do my best to be Fair with both processes.
 
Good to have multiple tests. Because I am going to be pounded with snow soon here.
 
I'll experiment this weekend. I'll leave half the trunk for BFWD+845 and the other half BFWD+Midnight Sun. Up until now its been all BFWD+845, and getting beading to stop has been an impossibility.
 
I have used #845 on top of a sealant for winter before... It has always been either Menz PowerLocl or Klasse SG.

Did #845 remove some of the MPL when I applied it maybe. I'm not really sure. But I have never had enough durability from MPL on its own to make it through the winter here. But when topped with #845 I have had no problems. Maybe I could have just used #845 but I choose to apply MPL 1st.

Klasse SG on the other hand is a totally different animal. KSG is a bullet proof LSP IMO.... I have chosen to top it in the winter for my own peace of mind but never needed to. I am confident that #845 has not removed any of my KSG during application.

How do I know? I guess I don't really but when a car with MPL / #845 only takes 1 dawn wash to remove any sign of beading after winter and KSG / #845 takes 3 to get the job done; I am pretty sure the KSG is still there.

I do think your point is well made though. #845 on top of almost any beauty nuba will surely remove it. And IMO some of todays polymer sealants aren't strong enough to resist #845 either.
 
dad07 said:
1/2 of the hood in 845 as a stand alone
1/2 of the hood in my favorite combo DG501/601/105/601/845
Click to expand...

Duragloss 501 does a really great job of cleaning the paint. Duragloss 601 aids in bonding.

To make it an apples to apples test just do 105 topped with 845 vs JUST 845




courtdale said:
I'll experiment this weekend. I'll leave half the trunk for BFWD+845 and the other half BFWD+Midnight Sun. Up until now its been all BFWD+845, and getting beading to stop has been an impossibility.
Click to expand...

The objective is to see if 845 removes the product it is applied on top of... I don't see how your proposed test would accomplish this.
 
Jeff120 said:
Ive wondered this as well. My thinking is, how could you even know if it removed what was under it? You would need a microscope to see the layers perhaps?
Click to expand...

^^^
:iagree:

There have been many tests done with an electron microscope that has determined a wax/sealant film layer (thickness) is measured in millionths of an inch.
Wouldn't seem that far-fetched, then, for a "topper" to either bond to the underlying LSP, co-mingle with it, or completely obliterate it.
[But yet another wrench thrown into the works...The "topper" application method (amount of pressure from the applier, for example) might come into play here.]

How to prove this will or will not occur...The mystery goes forward.


Side-by-Side Tests:

What are the quantifiers going to be for the volunteers and their upcoming side-by-side tests??

How in god's creation, without such a high-powered microscope....can any true measurement be taken?

By what other metrics can these tests be successfully performed? Does anybody out there know? Glossometers, refractometers (sic), and other fancy equipment could help, or not....I suppose.

Just asking 'cause I'm really curious.....

:)

Bob
 
I have a darker red paint on my car. The look a sealant vs Collinite gives is fairly different. When I put Collinite on top of Menzerna Power Lock, I can definitely see the Menzerna is still there.
 
FUNX725 said:
^^^


By what other metrics can these tests be successfully performed? Does anybody out there know? Glossometers, refractometers (sic), and other fancy equipment could help, or not....I suppose.

Bob
Click to expand...

Very good question:

Aside from beading, how clean it remains, how easy to clean, etc there may not be other methods.

Thought:
I wonder if 845 will remove a sharpie mark on paint.
I wonder if product "X" would remove a sharpie mark on paint

If yes to 845 and no to product "X" you could do a sharpie line, apply product "X" and the top it with 845 and see if the sharpie mark is impacted????????
 
Hell il try to remove a sharpie mark with 845 too. If it does il do as you stated above. I'm gunna be a busy guy tomorrow!
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
Very good question:

Aside from beading, how clean it remains, how easy to clean, etc there may not be other methods.


But would one be seeing beading, the cleanliness, etc., from the "final LSP topper" (845)...A mixture of the two LSPs...Or a true witnessing of 845 obliterating the underlying LSP?


Thought:
I wonder if 845 will remove a sharpie mark on paint.
I wonder if product "X" would remove a sharpie mark on paint

If yes to 845 and no to product "X" you could do a sharpie line, apply product "X" and the top it with 845????????
Click to expand...

Might work....

Even if one can clearly, and distinctly, see the sharpie-mark through the first LSP after it has been applied/cured (best scenario, IMO); then, after the "topping with 845" has been applied and cured...with the sharpie-mark still clearly, and distinctly visible; then....

Could one conclude that:

-845 did in fact successfully create an additional film layer over the first LSP?

-Since both LSPs have optical clarity....There was indeed a co-mingling of said LSPs

-845 and its solvents obliterated the underlying LSP without harming the sharpie mark?

-What is the MSDS for the sharpie-marker's chemical make-up... Ink, dye, paint, or whatever the ingredient(s) are....Could it be affected by either LSP, or not? {Just another wrench to throw into this matter :D}


What are your thoughts about these scenarios?

:)

Bob
 
This is fun....

I'm going to dissect your response, see my responses below in bold blue font

FUNX725 said:
Might work....

Even if one can clearly, and distinctly, see the sharpie-mark through the first LSP after it has been applied/cured (best scenario, IMO); then, after the "topping with 845" has been applied and cured...with the sharpie-mark still clearly, and distinctly visible; then....

Could one conclude that:

-845 did in fact successfully create an additional film layer over the first LSP?

I suppose that's one way to say it, the way I would phrase it that is more in line with what I/we are trying to prove is that the 1st layer was robust enough that it could withstand the potential removal rate due to the solvents in 845

-Since both LSPs have optical clarity....There was indeed a co-mingling of said LSPs

Co-mingly, and the potential/assumed benefits or detractors of each may be able to be proven when comparing how each behave against the other (ie which one lasts longer)

-845 and its solvents obliterated the underlying LSP without harming the sharpie mark?

If you can 1st prove that:
  1. product X will not remove the sharpie
  2. 845 will remove the sharpie
If both of the above are proven as true - the test can then ben conducted. If after the test the sharpie mark is removed, then yes. If it is only smugded then the removal is gradiant.

-What is the MSDS for the sharpie-marker's chemical make-up... Ink, dye, paint, or whatever the ingredient(s) are....Could it be affected by either LSP, or not? {Just another wrench to throw into this matter :D}


What are your thoughts about these scenarios?

:)

Bob
Click to expand...

Ok, wife is sayin we need to get out to dinner... be back in a few....

Jason
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
Bob, I am always impressed by the amount of detail you add to your posts... Thanks for taking the time!
Click to expand...

:iagree:

Bob is an excellent attribute to AG forums and I always pay attention when I see him post. Always something interesting, unique, educational, or humorous in his posts and it's usually all 4.

Thanks for all your time and the positive things you bring to the forum Bob.
 
FUNX725 said:
-What is the MSDS for the sharpie-marker's chemical make-up... Ink, dye, paint, or whatever the ingredient(s) are....Could it be affected by either LSP, or not?
:)

Bob
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm back...Dinner was yummy!

the above is what would be proven via the initial test I outlined without the need for the recipe list of the sharpie!!!!!

:xyxthumbs:

Your thoughts?
 
CEE DOG said:
:iagree:

Bob is an excellent attribute to AG forums and I always pay attention when I see him post. Always something interesting, unique, educational, or humorous in his posts and it's usually all 4.

Thanks for all your time and the positive things you bring to the forum Bob.
Click to expand...

That is very true and very nice and also kinda seems like the case of the pot calling the kettle black... You display and provide the same as you described about Bob!

Thx Corey!
 
I'm excited to try the sharpie thing tomorrow! Best thread ever..
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
Ok, I'm back...Dinner was yummy!

the above is what would be proven via the initial test I outlined without the need for the recipe list of the sharpie!!!!!

:xyxthumbs:

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Just a thought (maybe two :D) that comes to mind... and this is assuming this testing is to done on BC/CC paint systems...

Is clear-coat paint porous?...

It goes without saying that upon a vehicle's departure from the OEM assembly plant is when the paint system's CC paint film is at its "best hardness"....

But I believe it is also porous, to some extent {I've been led to believe that all materials have "gaps" between their atoms/molecules....(Thanks, Mr. Wasalewski, wherever you may be)}; and, from that point of departure date until the vehicle meets its demise, the porosity increases....Caused by the many factors that are clearly discussed here, and on other forums.

1.) To what extent, then, would this testing be skewed by using either:
-A freshly baked from the OEM factory's paint kitchen ovens CC paint surface
-A CC paint surface that has been abraded by "X" amount, over "X" number of years
-A re-spray (God only knows what happens here unless it's a DIYer!!)

2.) How far into the CC paint film will a sharpie-marker's "mark-of-distinction" be absorbed (mils/nm), if CC is porous?

3.) Can a sharpie-mark be absorbed/penetrate a wax/sealant/coating

4.) For that matter: Are waxes/sealants/coatings (LSPs) absorbed into the CC to some extent...Until the CC's valleys get filled, or beyond (really it would be 'beneath')....If CC is porous?

Just something else I was pondering...

PS: Hope you did enjoy dinner/company... I also heard the dinner bell....ate...then proceeded to go out like a light....HMMMM, the wife did just recently attend a Playhouse Production of: "Arsenic and Old Lace"!!

:)

Bob
 
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