stick shift vs. paddle shifters

I've driven DSG, S-tronic, R-tronic, PDK, SMG, M-DCT and a bunch of regular automatics. I'll still take a manual because I find it more enjoyable even if a computer can do it better than I can.
 
I am really liking these newer auto transmisdions that have sport & regular mode along with a manual shift option. My 8-speed Aisen tranny is smooth and shifts so quick.
 
As I said, I learned to drive in an Alfa Romeo, and my first car was an Alfa. I loved driving stick. But I love driving a real DCT even more. I *do* control the shifts, I just don't need a third appendage to help do it. As builthatch said about his paddle-shifted automatic, it doesn't take away from the experience. And a true DCT makes it even better. I'm still "connected" to the machine by choosing exactly when to shift; the gearbox then does it quicker than I ever could with a clutch pedal and stick shifter. With your hands both guiding the wheel instead of hanging on for dear life with one hand and using your knees to brace, it's actually even more satisfying to shift a DCT while concentrating on hitting your apexes.
 
SameGuy said:
Aisen?
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Looks like it autocorrected the spelling wrong. The new VW Touareg & Porsche Cayenne use 8 speed transmissions from Aisin in Japan. They used to use ZF, but moved to Aisin in ~2012. iI wasn't familiar with the company until recently. But I really like the smooth quick shifts.
 
SameGuy said:
As I said, I learned to drive in an Alfa Romeo, and my first car was an Alfa. I loved driving stick. But I love driving a real DCT even more. I *do* control the shifts, I just don't need a third appendage to help do it. As builthatch said about his paddle-shifted automatic, it doesn't take away from the experience. And a true DCT makes it even better. I'm still "connected" to the machine by choosing exactly when to shift; the gearbox then does it quicker than I ever could with a clutch pedal and stick shifter. With your hands both guiding the wheel instead of hanging on for dear life with one hand and using your knees to brace, it's actually even more satisfying to shift a DCT while concentrating on hitting your apexes.
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Every time I read a post like this I wonder what was wrong with the cars I test drove. I found the Audi's, VW's, and BMW's to be a total snore-fest. Shockingly the BMW's traditional 8-speed ZF transmission shifted much far quicker than the dual clutch Audi set up. I just couldn't "connect" and become one with the car. It felt like I was requesting the car to do something for me rather than doing it myself.

I completely understand the performance gains and you make some great points. I find myself gravitating to more vintage things as I age and derive some odd pleasure by doing things myself. In this case a well executed six to third down shift with reasonable rev-matching puts a smile on my face.

I'd like to thank everyone whose participated in the thread for staying so civil. It seems in many forums these days, this topic spins out of control with the manual drivers questioning the manhood of the auto drivers, and the auto drivers dismissing the manual drivers as out of touch dinosaurs.
 
Desertnate said:
I'd like to thank everyone whose participated in the thread for staying so civil. It seems in many forums these days, this topic spins out of control with the manual drivers questioning the manhood of the auto drivers, and the auto drivers dismissing the manual drivers as out of touch dinosaurs.
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We're all adults when we want to be Im the MAN
 
Desertnate said:
Every time I read a post like this I wonder what was wrong with the cars I test drove. I found the Audi's, VW's, and BMW's to be a total snore-fest. Shockingly the BMW's traditional 8-speed ZF transmission shifted much far quicker than the dual clutch Audi set up. I just couldn't "connect" and become one with the car. It felt like I was requesting the car to do something for me rather than doing it myself.

I completely understand the performance gains and you make some great points. I find myself gravitating to more vintage things as I age and derive some odd pleasure by doing things myself. In this case a well executed six to third down shift with reasonable rev-matching puts a smile on my face.

I'd like to thank everyone whose participated in the thread for staying so civil. It seems in many forums these days, this topic spins out of control with the manual drivers questioning the manhood of the auto drivers, and the auto drivers dismissing the manual drivers as out of touch dinosaurs.
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The VW Group dual clutches all have rather slow up shift response to the paddles, but down shifts tend to be instant. I like the BMW ZF, but on up shifts they have a pretty big shift shock.
 
There is nothing like slamming into all gears when driving aggressively. You just don't get the same feeling with auto's or paddles.
It's like the muscle car era and today's horse power cars, sure they are much faster today but the power is much more smoother and not as "violent" like the cars of the 60/70's. So the feel just isn't there (brute force).
 
SYMAWD said:
The VW Group dual clutches all have rather slow up shift response to the paddles, but down shifts tend to be instant. I like the BMW ZF, but on up shifts they have a pretty big shift shock.
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ha! i found it to be completely opposite. upshifts lighting fast and downshifts slower by a wide marging, but i attributed it to rev matching for the slower downshifts...which is obvious.

upshift time is supposed to be 8 milliseconds for DSG!
 
builthatch said:
ha! i found it to be completely opposite. upshifts lighting fast and downshifts slower by a wide marging, but i attributed it to rev matching for the slower downshifts...which is obvious.

upshift time is supposed to be 8 milliseconds for DSG!
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The upshift itself is very fast, but the time between you tell it to upshift and the actual upshift isn't.
 
Maybe I'm just odd, then. As much as I enjoy old muscle cars and hot hatches, if I ever find a decent E-body convertible I'd take out a second mortgage to resto-mod it with a current drive train, suspension, brakes and electronics. People so easily forget how horribly old iron handled or braked -- or shifted, for that matter.
 
SameGuy said:
Maybe I'm just odd, then. As much as I enjoy old muscle cars and hot hatches, if I ever find a decent E-body convertible I'd take out a second mortgage to resto-mod it with a current drive train, suspension, brakes and electronics. People so easily forget how horribly old iron handled or braked -- or shifted, for that matter.
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I'm with you on this one.

I love admiring classic American iron someone has lovingly restored or customized. However, I don't think I'd enjoy driving them in their original state. The way they wallow on their suspension, the loose steering, and the NASCAR-like noise/vibration doesn't do it for me. The big V-8 exhaust note however....nothing like it!
 
builthatch said:
did you feel that way even when driving it aggressively?
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I work at a VW/ Audi/ Porsche dealer and a BMW dealer so I drive them all the time. Honestly, just keeping them in drive sport is the best as it hangs on to lower gears much longer and it knows you want a downshift as soon as you hit the gas.
 
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