Polishing

dtbernstein87

dtbernstein87

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I'm seeing a lot of people having trouble with swirl marks and attempts at polishing them away. I am relatively new to detailing, but at this point I've gotten to the point where the next step would be polishing. I have tried hand polishing before but didn't really feel that it did a lot ot get rid of the swirl marks. I applied black fire by hand. Anyway, point of my post is to see what people have used and how they think it works for them as well as any pit falls and tips etc. Really any input is welcome.

Thanks guys!
 
Generally speaking, clearcoat paint is so hard that you really will be unable to remove swirls by hand. That being said, there are some really good compounds/polishes which make it easier than it's ever been to actually get somewhere by hand, namely Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and 105.

The good news is it is also easier than ever to remove swirl marks by machine. Is that what you are leaning toward?
 
A long time ago I tried removing swirls by hand. The day after that I purchased a machine.
 
Well I currently do not have a machine, but I would consider it. I would say that I do not want to mess up my paint though. I guess I want to know about "what could go wrong" and what causes that to happen. In other words, I just wanna make sure if I go the machine route that I do it right.
 
Also to more directly answer your question, I don't care how it gets done as long as it gets done and gets done right!
 
dtbernstein87 said:
Well I currently do not have a machine, but I would consider it. I would say that I do not want to mess up my paint though. I guess I want to know about "what could go wrong" and what causes that to happen. In other words, I just wanna make sure if I go the machine route that I do it right.
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It would be very very hard to mess up your paint with a Dual Action polisher. They are very safe, and easy to learn on.
 
Before you make the step to polishing you should do allot of reading. Here is a link to many articles and videos by Mike Phillips http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ke-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html Note the 3 part series of videos "How to Remove Swirl Marks" It is very informative. As mentioned by others it is difficult to harm your finish with a DA polisher. After years of detailing by hand I recently purchased a Groits Garage polisher. It takes some practice, but my initial results have been very satisfying. If you decide to go this route read, read and read some more. Watch as many videos as you can find.
 
dtbernstein87 said:
I have tried hand polishing before but didn't really feel that it did a lot ot get rid of the swirl marks.
Click to expand...

When I taught all the Detailing 101 Classes for Meguiar's the first thing I would do is teach people how to work by hand because normally everyone has a hand or two but not everyone has a machine.

Here's what I know about hand polishing.

It requires more skill and talent to remove swirls by hand than it does by machine.

Most people don't know how to move their hand, that is the correct technique for removing small particles of paint which is how you level the surface and thus remove the swirls.

When I moved from Meguiar's to Autogeek I simply stopped teaching people how to work by hand in all my classes and instead start them off with how to use all the different DA Polishers because what I learned over the years at Meguiar's is once a person learns how much work and time is required to remove swirls and scratches to just one small section of paint on their car... they instantly want to learn how to use a machine.

See these articles,

Man versus Machine

What it means to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of automotive clear coats

Put a little passion behind the pad - Mike Phillips




dtbernstein87 said:
Anyway, point of my post is to see what people have used and how they think it works for them as well as any pit falls and tips etc. Really any input is welcome.

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...


If you're new to machine polishing, start out with any of the DA Polishers,

Porter Cable
Meguiar's
Griot's
Flex
Cyclo


Here's couple of links to click on from my article list...


New to Machine Polishing?

How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project

Video: How to pick the right polisher





:)
 
Here's what I mean by putting some passion behind the pad from this article,

The Rule of Thumb


In the picture you cannot see how fast I'm pushing down on the applicator pad or how fast I'm moving my hand so let me tell you...

I'm pushing down hard and moving my hand at the speed of light to remove the sanding marks in this article...


Show Car and Perfectionist Sanding and Polishing
For those of you wanting to do perfectionist sanding and polishing, first make sure you're getting paid well because you can sand right up to an edge but removing your sanding marks has to be done carefully and this means it will require you to invest more time into the project.


How to sand right up to an edge and remove your sanding marks by hand
There is a fix for the issue of sanding right next to an edge or a raised body line and that's by carefully sanding and then using Meguiar's M105 Ultra Compound by hand to remove your sanding marks. Another way to remove sanding marks next to an edge or to a raised body line is to use Spot Repair Pads on a rotary buffer using a technique I call Edging.

Because M105 is aggressive, (rated at being able to remove #1200 Grit Sanding Marks on fresh paint), and recommended for use by hand, you can easily remove sanding marks by hand if you're willing to put a little passion behind the pad.

There are a lot of compounds that can be applied by hand to remove sanding marks, but it's the ability of the super micro abrasive technology, (SMAT), used in M105 that gives it both its' cutting ability and the ability to polish out clear and glossy that makes M105 Ultra Compound a good choice for carefully rubbing out sanding marks right up to an edge or a raised body line by hand.

Note: The blue line you see in the pictures below is vinyl tape applied over the top of a body lines on the hood of this 1969 El Camino to make it easier to see and protect them. You can also do this with the edges of a panel.


RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand01.jpg


RemvovingSandingMarksbyHand02.jpg




:xyxthumbs:
 
Well I have to hand it to you - that is just impressive. I do think the answer would be the machine because of the time saving and quality of the results.

That being said, I am not sure if the swirl marks on my 2010 daily driver really warrant a good polishing yet... I don't know - perhaps you can answer this:

If you polish too regularly do you run the risk of wearing down the paint as time goes on? After all, you are removing a thin layer each time to "flatten out the defect."

I can look into trying to take some pictures later if that would help, but I plan to keep my current car for probably 10 more years and I don't want to get over-zealous with detailing now and run into problems later.
 
dtbernstein87 said:
If you polish too regularly do you run the risk of wearing down the paint as time goes on? After all, you are removing a thin layer each time to "flatten out the defect."

I can look into trying to take some pictures later if that would help, but I plan to keep my current car for probably 10 more years and I don't want to get over-zealous with detailing now and run into problems later.
Click to expand...

This is why in conjunction with the polishing, you need to develop a good wash regimen to keep from re-swirling the car. That means no tunnel washes, no free dealer washes, and a lot more. Also you need to keep a good layer of protectant on your paint and trim to reduce UV damage.
 
I currently use ONR for washing. I use a 2 bucket technique with microfiber mitt and microfiber drying cloths. I don't go to commercial washes! :xyxthumbs: I have a separate mitt and microfibers for the wheels. I always work top down. I have blackfire sealant that I put on at the 4 month mark and I use quick detailer once a month from blackfire as well.
 
I guess I should also say that for better or worse, I didn't really know much about washing or detailing until I started looking on the internet and the forums have been great for learning!
 
Well, if you use good wash technique, you don't need to worry about removing too much paint. If you're really worried about it, one school of thought is to correct the paint, then replace what you've polished off with a coating like Optimum Opti-Coat 2.0.
 
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