Need some help - looking to graduate from the PC 7424XP to a rotary buffer.

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washnwax

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I have been using my PC 7424 xp for a year. I am growing increasingly interested in moving to a rotary buffer. The reason for this is that I believe moving to a rotary will improve the quality of my life because:

1 Quicker - can complete a project faster than a DA
2 Is more powerful and thus more versatile, capable of removing sanding marks with ease, while working with good paint to maintain.
3 Less noise (it could be perception due to the amount of TIME I need to run my PC to complete a project).

Reasons for not pulling the trigger (yet):

1 Unsure of technique. I doubt my DA techniques make direct transfer. For DAs, Mike says to move slow and apply 15lbs downward pressure and making several passes. My mission is to NEVER FAIL causing irreparable damage requiring hiring a painter and trading in vehicle. So, what are the techniques with rotary buffers and are they transferable across all rotaries?

2 Fear of the above actually happening ( burning my paint) through improper technique.

3 no clear pro/con to make the selection process logical. Flex is getting a lot of attention, but Makita seems to be a trusted name while DeWalt and Hitachi are also well-known. I like the flex pe 14 based on coverage and features, but how do others stack up?

3 after a rotary purchase, would my PC still serve a purpose?


Is there a video on the AutoGeek YouTube channel showing and explaining how to remove swirls with a Flex PE 14, deep on technique, comparing/contrasting techniques for a DA such as PC 7424xp? That would help build some confidence.

Thanks!

Peter
 
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for everything I need to do that is heavy duty: real compounding, removing 2000 grit sanding scratches, etc... I use my flex & wool pads.

For everything else - finishing, polishing, and sealants I use the orbital

one does not conflict with the other, they are both used for me...
 
glen e said:
for everything I need to do that is heavy duty: real compounding, removing 2000 grit sanding scratches, etc... I use my flex & wool pads.

For everything else - finishing, polishing, and sealants I use the orbital

one does not conflict with the other, they are both used for me...
Click to expand...

Which flex? Rotary or Da?

Go to your local junk yard and get a hood to practice on. Or just keep your setting at 1-1.5 till you get the hang of it.
 
washnwax said:
3 after a rotary purchase, would my PC still serve a purpose?



Peter
Click to expand...

Yes (if by PC you mean a dual action) - I use my makita almost daily, but have yet been able to produce a hologram free finish on a dark car with the rotary - that's almost solely what I use the DA for - other than that the rotary with the right pads and products can make a job MUCH faster IMO.

Technique - there's vids, answers, anything you need to know on here and on youtube - practice will get you used to it obviously. Start maybe with a finishing pad and polish (very little fighting) and work your way up in aggressive (sounds backwards but best way to make the change IMO) Starting with a wool pad and or aggressive compound and/or light cutting pad may be somewhat irritating at first. Have to learn to not fight the machine but also flow with it and direct it at the same time. Again practice makes "perfect". Good luck man :dblthumb2:
 
Kris R said:
Which flex? Rotary or Da?

Go to your local junk yard and get a hood to practice on. Or just keep your setting at 1-1.5 till you get the hang of it.
Click to expand...

3403 - i don't think you put wool pads on orbitals.....
 
To get over the fear and uncertainty, +1 for practice hood. Or do you have a crappy spare car that you don't care about that you can practice on? Practice on something where you've got nothing to lose but be mindful of what you're doing and you're bound to succeed, right? Just keep in mind that you don't want to run out of paint on the practice material, so dive in but don't aim to trash it.
 
glen e said:
3403 - i don't think you put wool pads on orbitals.....
Click to expand...

I do. So do the reviewers, so do a few other people I know.

http://www.autogeek.net/lc-foam-wool-pads.html
 
Also this may sound funny, but go to a junk yard and purposefully try to burn some paint so you can see just where the limits are. Then cut loose on a plastic painted part like a mirror and a bumper and see how much easier it is to burn the paint. Again. Junk yard.
 
Peter...I pretty much had the same exact concerns as you, and the same wants as you when it comes to a polisher. I have a PC7424XP and wanted to step it up and get something that would get the job done faster. I went ahead and got the PE14-2 since I already have the PC. I haven't used it yet, but I plan on going to my local body shop that I used to frequent with my previous cars. I called up the Nationwide rep, who practially knows me, and asked him if they had any spare hoods that he could give me. I told him I just picked up a rotary and that I wanted something to test it with. He said no problem and to stop by any time.

Am I nervous...yes...but I'm sure with practice, I can become one of these guys on here who do a fantastic job.

I say go with the PE14-2!
 
glen e said:
great!


I don't - they are for heavy cutting in my use...I use that exact same pad...but have never seen or heard of anyone here using it on an orbital....I may have missed it...
Click to expand...

I don't have any experience with a wool pad on a DA but I have read posts by a number of pro detailers on other forums who are using a PFW pad on a GG DA for cutting with UNO then move down to a foam pad for final finishing with UNO. A number of them have reported they find themselves using their Rotary less and less.
 
glen e said:
great!


I don't - they are for heavy cutting in my use...I use that exact same pad...but have never seen or heard of anyone here using it on an orbital....I may have missed it...
Click to expand...

It's all personal preference.
 
Rix6 said:
...Or do you have a crappy spare car that you don't care about that you can practice on?
Click to expand...

Nope. No junkers to play with. I am going to be wetsanding a small portion of my wife's minivan door to fix this scratch. This was another reason to get the Flex PE 14 - to get the sanding marks out quickly. I did however see Mike post a demonstration on how a DA orbital, WF TSR and yellow pad took out 3000 grit sanding marks, so maybe I should try what I have first (stepping back into my comfort zone) and see what happens....
 
washnwax said:
I did however see Mike post a demonstration on how a DA orbital, WF TSR and yellow pad took out 3000 grit sanding marks, so maybe I should try what I have first (stepping back into my comfort zone) and see what happens....
Click to expand...


If any pad, product and tool combination has the ability to remove swirls, it also has the ability to remove sanding marks as they are both at their core types of below surface defects.

It is the abrading process that removes paint off the very upper surface and the goal is to remove enough to level the upper surface with the lowest depths of the defects you're trying to remove and thus restore a show room new finish.

The big variable is paint thickness or film build of the top coat...


In the article you reference,


Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

WetSandingExperiment1001.jpg


List of products used
Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher
PosiTest Paint Thickness Gauge
Brinkman Swirl Finder Light
Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze 3.0
Nikken #2000 Finishing Papers
Nikken #2500 Finishing Papers
Nikken #3000 Finishing Papers
Meguiar's E-7200 Rubber Backing Pad
Lake Country 5.5" Yellow Foam CCS Cutting Pad
Lake Country 5.5" White Foam CCS Polishing Pad
Generic Spray Bottle with Clean water and drop or two of Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo
3M Scotch 233+ Premium Automotive Masking Tape 18mm x 32m
GritGuard 5-Gallon Bucket System with Dolly - Red
Autogeek Complete Two Bucket Wash System - Red
Brass Shut Off Valve
Brass Quick Connector Set




I demonstrated what could be done using very non-aggressive products... just imagine what you could do if you used a true compound and a fiber pad like a microfiber pad or a Surbuf pad?

You can remove sanding marks using a DA Polisher like a PC, Meguiar's and Griot's units, it just won't ever be as fast as what you could do using a rotary buffer.

For me, I'll use the rotary buffer for now if I have an entire car to sand and buff because it already takes a long time to do this kind of project using a rotary buffer so I don't want it to take longer using a tool with a free floating spindle bearing assembly.


That's just me though... over the last few years we've all seen new pads and products introduced to leverage the safety and power of the DA Polisher and I'm confident we'll see even more new products into the future.


At this year's Mobil Tech Expo, I taught a class on removing isolated paint defects using the Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher and Meguiar's 3" Unigrit Sanding and Finishing Discs. As long as you're finishing out at #3000 it should be pretty easy to remove your sanding marks using a DA Polisher and some M105 with either a fiber pad or an aggressive foam pad.

Griot's 3" Mini Polisher works great as a 3" Dampsander


Most people don't need to wetsand and probably shouldn't wetsand but if you're ever working on a project that requires sanding then do yourself a favor and get yourself a Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher and then get the Meguiar's 3" Unigrit Finishing Discs and the 3" Interface Pad and you're going to love what this little tool can do.


Here's a few pictures from our recent Wetsanding Project where we machine dampsanded my friend Jay's 1989 K5 Blazer which you're going to see on the 2nd Season of our TV show, What's in the Garage".

Because the 3" sanding and finishing discs have such a small footprint the are EASY to control so you can sand close to edges or tape lines with accuracy.

If you're NEW to any type of sanding, the Griot's 3" Mini Polisher used as 3" Dampsander is a great way to learn and increase your confidence in the art of machine sanding.


3inchdampsanding001.jpg


3inchdampsanding002.jpg


3inchdampsanding003.jpg


3inchdampsanding004.jpg


3inchdampsanding005.jpg


3inchdampsanding006.jpg


3inchdampsanding007.jpg



End results...

jaysk510.jpg


jaysk505.jpg



On Autogeek.net



Meguiars Unigrit 3 Inch Finishing Discs
I can't recommend enough getting the Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher


Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher

Note: Make sure you get a couple of 3" Interface Pads you want this for contours and curved panels.




:xyxthumbs:

:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
If you do get a rotary buffer, I posted quite a few tips and techniques in the below thread...


LOTS of information in this thread...

New Flex PE14 - How to use ONLY a rotary buffer to finish out hologram free?


And here's my recent article on polishing out hologram free using only a rotary buffer...

Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer



:buffing:
Click to expand...

First off Mike I have to give you props ---->:urtheman:


I've read through those posts and while they certainly help explain the point about going hologram-free with a rotary, I'm not finding information about the basic techniques behind using a rotary such as the Flex PE14. I've watched every video you've produced and published to AutoGeek.net on how to use the PC 7424XP, which ultimately built my confidence to a point at which I felt I understood enough about the tool through "training" that I "believed" I could do it too and acheive great results. After some time and testing on my own with my own PC 7424, I figured it out, and it's working great - but gosh it takes forEVER to do my vehicles. So, that said - where are the videos on the proper use/technique of rotary buffing with products like the Flex PE-14-2? How much downward force, what to expect for someone turning one on for the first time- what will the machine (such as the Flex PE 14-2) want to do when it turns on and what should be done to counter it. In other words, what's the reation to its action supposed to be? What speeds are ideal for medium, light swirls, and jeweling? Are there any "safe" speeds (such as for jeweling) that have no risk for burning paint? What does the "movement" look like - am I moving s-l-o-w-l-y or should I keep the thing from sitting in one spot ( unlike a DA polisher). Does movement speed correlate to rotational speed (RPM)?


Also, who holds the responsibility of posting the FY12 detailing 101 and 102 classes - I want to attend, but havent' seen a schedule yet. (I emailed you directly too.)

Thanks again to everyone who's replied to this question. You all have offered a ton of excellent insight and feedback so far!

Peter
 
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