DA Flex or DA PC

nrsk4u

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DA Flex or DA PC


From a recreational standpoint where I just do my own cars 3-4 times a year, is there really a difference in the 2? Thanks for your help in advance! I'd love to get the flex but I'm not gonna spend all the extra money if I'm gonna get the same result
 
I think you already answer your question.

If you can afford then buy the 3401, if not stick to PC.
 
A Porter Cable 7424xp is a great machine and will serve your needs nicely without emptying your wallet. That said, the Flex 3401 is quite a machine and is in a category all by itself...
 
A Porter Cable 7424xp is a great machine and will serve your needs nicely without emptying your wallet. That said, the Flex 3401 is quite a machine and is in a category all by itself...

Have to completely agree with Bobby.

I think it's going to come down to how much you really want to spend. The Flex 3401 is forced rotation and has a lot more power than the PC.

I have a PC for my DA and it has served it's purpose quite well and I use mine every day. Mostly for spreading wax, but even on correction work I've never had an issue with it. Other than it bogs down sometimes under heavy correction. Which I don't use it for heavy corrections anymore since I have a Flex rotary.

If your just looking for a quality machine to do some light polishing a couple times a year the PC is a good machine and is way less expensive than the Flex. Just my 2 cents!
 
I've used both and they are different beasts. The PC is easy to use, not too heavy and it is effective with the right pad and polish combos. But the draw back i've found is the vibrations from the PC at the highest level can cause fatigue, and it does bog down under heavy correction. The Flex corrects quicker and with less product I found. The machine is a bit more to handle. It has vibrations (though not as intense) as a PC, but can be grippy and pull like a rotary. So at times the Flex can be a little tougher to handle.

So it's a give and take situation, you need to decide which pros and cons you want to deal with. I think for a recreational detailer, the PC will do you just fine.
 
I'm not gonna spend all the extra money if I'm gonna get the same result


You can get the same results but it's going to take longer because if you push too hard on ANY of the PC style tools the pad will simply stop rotating. Not true with the Flex 3401

Also, curved panels, bot convex and concave, or raised body lines will put pressure on the face of a buffing pad in such a way as to stop the pad from rotating.

It's only when the pad is rotating that you are effectively removing paint. The only way to remove swirls and scratches is to remove a little paint.

See the below video and article, both from my article list...



New to Machine Polishing?

How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project



Part 1 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project

[video=youtube_share;LtrdTvnZX3I]- Part 1 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project[/video]



Part 2 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project

[video=youtube_share;2k92m5cJxCk]- Part 2 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project[/video]


The Flex 3401 in action...
[video=youtube_share;3CtUaI_8HhE]- Performing a "Test Spot" to the paint on a 1957 Chevrolet Belair[/video]



:xyxthumbs:
 
What it means to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of automotive clear coats

One of the most common problems people want to solve when it comes to improving the appearance of their car's finish is to remove swirls, scratches and water spot etchings out of their car's clear coat finish.


Below Photographs Courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com


Swirls
swirl-art.jpg
swirlsinthepaint.jpg



Scratches
scratch-art.jpg
scratchesinpaint.jpg



Water Spots
water-spots-art.jpg
WaterSpotEtching3.jpg



In order to remove any type of below surface defect out of a clear coat finish you need to carefully remove small amounts of paint surrounding the defect, (or defects), until the surface is uniformly level or flat. Of course some defects may be too deep to remove safely and in these situations you can often time improve the defect but not completely remove the defect.

In other words, in order to remove a scratch out of an automotive clear coat you must remove enough paint surrounding the scratch until the upper most portions of the surface are level with or equal to the lowest depths of the scratch or defect you're trying to remove.


Does that make sense?


The idea being, you don't really remove a scratch, you remove the paint surrounding a scratch.


The problem with removing below surface defects like swirls and scratches is whether or not you have enough film-build or paint thickness to safely remove the defect completely without going through the clear coat and exposing the basecoat also called color coat. Generally speaking, factory clear coats are thin so you need to be careful and take the cautious approach of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.

If you remove too much paint and expose the underlying color coat the only way to fix the problem is to have the affected area repainted. The color coat is usually dull as it gets its gloss from the clear layer of paint.


And this classic!

Swirls and Scratches Don't Exist


:laughing:
 
Here's a few videos showing these tool in action...

My Classic Car

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MsZL72VAk&hd=1]My Classic Car with Dennis Gage and Mike Phillip - Removing Swirls - YouTube[/video]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swLcPlUPd_c&hd=1]My Classic Car with Dennis Gage and Mike Phillip - Wolfgang and Flex 3401 - YouTube[/video]





Motorhead Garage

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWdYCHZrpd8]How To Remove Oxidation by Machine Polishing with Mike Phillips on Motorhead Garage - YouTube[/video]




Two Guys Garage

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QHljvm46Ek&hd=1]Porter Cable - How to remove swirls and machine wax your car with Mike Phillips and Bryan Fuller - YouTube[/video]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ1SRK_GfVg&hd=1]Flex 3401 - How To Remove Swirls using Pinnacle Polishes with Mike Phillips and Bryan Fuller - YouTube[/video]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM8PnDooZP8&hd=1]How To Check Pad Rotation on a DA Polisher - YouTube[/video]




:buffing:
 
This is a very in-depth article on the PC style of tools...

The Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...



Here's some Flex threads...


New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401

NewFlexBackingPlates17.jpg



From this thread,


1969 Camaro Pace Car - Show Car Makeover - Modeled by Michelle


This is you're truly using a 4" PFW pad on a 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401

While they tackled the hood I knocked out the panel in front of the hood and some of the tops of the fenders...

1969CamaroIndyPC021.jpg


1969CamaroIndyPC015.jpg


1969CamaroIndyPC048.jpg


1969CamaroIndyPC022.jpg




From this thread,

1986 Buick Regal T-Type Turbo


Using a 4" Tangerine Hydro-Tech Polishing pad to get close to the hood ornamnet...
1986BuickRegal_011.jpg


1986BuickRegal_012.jpg




From this thread,

1972 Corvette Stingray - Extreme Makeover - Process and Products Used



1972Corvette023.jpg


Adam aka Harleyguy removing swirls using Prima Swirl and a Purple Foamed Wool pad
1972Corvette069.jpg



1972Corvette070.jpg


1972Corvette071.jpg



Here's Kyle using a tape-line to do his Test Spot
1972Corvette072.jpg




1972Corvette024.jpg


1972Corvette025.jpg


1972Corvette026.jpg


1972Corvette027.jpg


1972Corvette028.jpg


1972Corvette029.jpg


1972Corvette030.jpg


1972Corvette031.jpg


1972Corvette032.jpg


1972Corvette033.jpg


1972Corvette034.jpg


1972Corvette035.jpg


1972Corvette036.jpg


:xyxthumbs:
 
Damn Mike,

I think you've convinced me to buy a flex over the GG 6" polisher to replace my old PC...

errghhh...I was almost set!
 
Damn Mike,

I think you've convinced me to buy a flex over the GG 6" polisher to replace my old PC...

errghhh...I was almost set!


We did these with PC "style" polishers... (Griot's, PC and Megs)

1954 Ford F-100 - Extreme Makeover - Process and products used

54Ford20.jpg



Glen
Here's Glen using a Meguiar's G110v2 to remove the swirls out of the tailgate. This is the first time Glen has ever used a machine to polish paint and he did a superb job!
54Ford75.jpg



54Ford108.jpg





1939 Lincoln Zephyr - Swirls Removed - Modeled by Nicole

Before Frank drove the car into the studio I had him park it in front of Autogeek in full sun

1939LincolnZephyr014.jpg



Here are the pictures I took showing the true condition of the paint.....

Picture = 1939LincolnZephyr015.jpg
1939LincolnZephyr015.jpg



These next three shots are all cropped out from the above picture...

1939LincolnZephyr015a.jpg
1939LincolnZephyr015a.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr015b.jpg
1939LincolnZephyr015b.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr015c.jpg
1939LincolnZephyr015c.jpg




I walked around the Zephyr and captured these swirl shots...
1939LincolnZephyr016.jpg





The Major Correction Step
(Page 102 and 103 of my how-to book)

After proving the Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover with a polishing pad on a DA Polisher was a combination that worked on this paint system Tommy and I went to work removing the swirls.

1939LincolnZephyr034a.jpg



1939LincolnZephyr035.jpg




1939LincolnZephyr062.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr063.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr064.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr065.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr066.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr067.jpg


1939LincolnZephyr068.jpg



:buffing:
 
See I have a rotary, but most of the jobs that I get don't need it. And when using the rotary I always have to follow up with a PC step to remove the imperfection the rotary has created. And that is extra time. The customer base that I have right now, don't need/want a full correction, they just want it "clean", so a single stage polishing step is all that I really need. I do try to up-sell, but it's tough when your customer don't understand or appreciate what a full correction is. Also it doesn't make much sense for a daily driver. Since the PC and Flex can achieve the same results, I guess I would go with the machine that saves time, since my business is volume based. Does the Flex really offer much in time savings? It's about twice as much as the GG 6". Just want to know if it's worth the investment.
 
Does the Flex really offer much in time savings? It's about twice as much as the GG 6". Just want to know if it's worth the investment.

It's definitely going to do any correction or polishing work faster than a PC style DA Polisher.

If you're doing one-steps using a cleaner/wax it will also be faster. Free floating spindle bearing assembly just can't compete with direct drive, forced rotation Flex 3401

If you get one, I would recommend springing for the Adapter Plate System so you can have the ability to use 4" pads for tight areas or thin panels.

Also, the Purple Foamed Wool Pads work really well for correction work on the Flex 3401 and for foam pads, stick with thick pads, not thin pads. The thinness or thickness of a pad is not a factor with the Flex 3401



:)
 
One more question Mike,

have you ever used Meguiar's micro fiber correction system with the Flex?

If the Flex works faster, I assume it would help the micro fiber correction system work faster also. Is there anything to watch out for with this combination?
 
My 2 cents...I own the Flex 3401 and love it. Never used the PC though. Look at it this way, one the initial corrections are done it's all in the up keep after that. According to the Pros, the Flex corrects faster than the PC. If you wash properly after the initial corrections, no matter which machine you choose, you will only have to spend minimal time with the buffer in hand.

Hope I said that right!
 
One more question Mike,

have you ever used Meguiar's micro fiber correction system with the Flex?

If the Flex works faster, I assume it would help the micro fiber correction system work faster also. Is there anything to watch out for with this combination?

The general consensus seems to be that the Meg's DA MF system does not work well with the forced rotation action of the Flex.
 
The general consensus seems to be that the Meg's DA MF system does not work well with the forced rotation action of the Flex.


The compounding step is "grabby", that is the pad grabs the surface and feels like it's throwing the polisher around instead of the pad oscillating it over the paint.

If you want to use ANY microfiber DA system, then at this time get a PC style DA Polisher.

If you want to use foam pads or the PFW then you're good to go with the Flex 3401


Read what I and others wrote about the MF systems here,


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...rofiber-correction-system-can-do-you-too.html



:xyxthumbs:
 
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