Orbital wiring....

[dustthisnsx]

Hey Guys,

Long story short, opened my Snap-on et1470 type 100 orbital to clean up the contacts in the trigger but didn't take note of the wires....

Oh and I knocked the tin over with all the ittybitty switch parts. good times:xyxthumbs: Did some searching and located a replacement switch as seen below. Only difference was that it's rated at 12amp rather than the original 8.

Now that I've got a new switch I need a wiring diagram.. I've exhausted my googling capabilities and have phoned repair centers and manufactures only to get 'we don't provide those as you may shock yourself' well, I'm going to shock myself w/o it! haha

What I'm looking for is someone with a working knoledge of these things to help me connect the wires correctly. thanks

Images of the unit and wires are at home and I will upload those tonight but here's the best diagram I could find on it. Note the switch has 5 wires.

_Paul

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Keep plugging away at it, you'll figure it out.

It's possible one of our members might be able to help out, we have some pretty sharp folks on here...

Also, looks like a diagram for a rotary buffer, not an orbital...


:dblthumb2:

 

[dustthisnsx]

Keep plugging away at it, you'll figure it out.

It's possible one of our members might be able to help out, we have some pretty sharp folks on here...

Also, looks like a diagram for a rotary buffer, not an orbital...


:dblthumb2:

Thanks Mike, I'll get the termanolgy figured out sooner or later

Here's the unit (not mine as mines much cleaner )

and here's the variable speed switch

 

[dustthisnsx]

Label

old switch

New and old switch

dilemma...

 

[tuscarora dave]

Take notice that your new switch assembly is marked load on one side and line on the other. What I see is 5 wires, 2 coming from the cord itself (these are the "line" wires) then you have 2 going to the brush holder assembly (these will be your "load" wires). These 4 wires appear to be tinned on the ends (that means the stranded ends have been soldered so they will be stiff enough to insert into the switch contact holes) The 5th wire has a spade terminal of sorts on the end. It looks to me like the black wire with the spade terminal can only go in the center of the switch between the line side and the load side (it looks like there's a female spade connection there in the center) Then your white and black wires with the tinned ends from the cord will be inserted into the holes marked "line", then insert the black and red wires with the tinned ends from the brush holder assembly into the holes marked "load".

Again, the power coming in from the cord is the "line" and the power coming from the switch to the motor is the "load", the wire with the spade terminal is likely the potentiometer or variable speed wire and should only fit into one unique location.

the black line and black load wires likely go on one side and the white line and red load likely go into the other side of the switch.

I hope I didn't lose you with the last part, a switch is a switch. insert both your cord wires into the line side first then with the load wires, match black to black and red to white.

 

[tuscarora dave]

One more thing for safety sake. When you wire up the switch like I have said, plug the tool into a GFCI recepticle to test the tool before putting everything back together. Wire up the switch then plug the cord into a GFCI recepticle and lightly squeeze the trigger. If the GFCI recepticle trips then I was wrong and the black line wire and the red load wire both go on the same side of the switch and the white line and black load on the other side.

 

[feslope]

Take notice that your new switch assembly is marked load on one side and line on the other. What I see is 5 wires, 2 coming from the cord itself (these are the "line" wires) then you have 2 going to the brush holder assembly (these will be your "load" wires). These 4 wires appear to be tinned on the ends (that means the stranded ends have been soldered so they will be stiff enough to insert into the switch contact holes) The 5th wire has a spade terminal of sorts on the end. It looks to me like the black wire with the spade terminal can only go in the center of the switch between the line side and the load side (it looks like there's a female spade connection there in the center) Then your white and black wires with the tinned ends from the cord will be inserted into the holes marked "line", then insert the black and red wires with the tinned ends from the brush holder assembly into the holes marked "load".

Again, the power coming in from the cord is the "line" and the power coming from the switch to the motor is the "load", the wire with the spade terminal is likely the potentiometer or variable speed wire and should only fit into one unique location.

the black line and black load wires likely go on one side and the white line and red load likely go into the other side of the switch.

I hope I didn't lose you with the last part, a switch is a switch. insert both your cord wires into the line side first then with the load wires, match black to black and red to white.

Excellent description.

One more thing for safety sake. When you wire up the switch like I have said, plug the tool into a GFCI recepticle to test the tool before putting everything back together. Wire up the switch then plug the cord into a GFCI recepticle and lightly squeeze the trigger. If the GFCI recepticle trips then I was wrong and the black line wire and the red load wire both go on the same side of the switch and the white line and black load on the other side.

Good safety advice.

Nice write-up Dave.

 

[BillE]

Dave gave you a great explanation, but if you are still in the dark (and have some time) grab your Snap-On man and have him get the wiring diagram.

My thoughts: That buffer looks familiar, but for life of me, I can't remember who/what the real manufacture is. I'm thinking DeWalt.

Bill

 

[tuscarora dave]

Dave gave you a great explanation, but if you are still in the dark (and have some time) grab your Snap-On man and have him get the wiring diagram.

My thoughts: That buffer looks familiar, but for life of me, I can't remember who/what the real manufacture is. I'm thinking DeWalt.

Bill

That would be the best course of action.

I am second guessing myself about the red wire this morning, now that I got some rest and can think a little better. Any single phase 120 volt motor that I have ever worked on had the hot wire on one side of the brush holder and the common (or neutral) wire on the opposite side of the brush holder. Being that the black spade terminal end wire and the red tinned end wire go to the same side of the brush holder, I am thinking the red wire is full voltage load wire (for when the trigger is fully depressed and the variable speed is no longer being used) and the thinner tinned end black wire would be the neutral (or common) wire.

It would look like this.

 

[dustthisnsx]

Holly COW guys! Thanks for all the info! currently testing these methods, stand by :buffing:

 

[mwoolfso]

I just experienced a jaw-dropping moment reading this thread.

 

[dustthisnsx]

alright, well I didn't get electricuted nor did a get any juice..

GFI for safety

wiring to match the awesome sketch

but nothing when trigger is slightly or fully depressed. (checked continuty and all is good in the switch)


Here's where the black wire connects inside

And here's where the black/red connect

also took a look around inside and all looked normal

 

[tuscarora dave]

I would check for continuity between a few different points while the machine is apart. I don't mean to be insulting by suggesting this but, you have ohmed out the cord right?

To rule out a shorted armature, set your multi-meter to continuity and go between the shaft where the bearing presses on, to the copper segments of the commutator where the brushes ride on it. The windings and commutator should be insulated from the shaft so if you get continuity between the 2 there is likely a dead short in the armature. However, I'd think that would trip the GFCI receptacle.

Also, check for continuity between any one of the segments of the commutator to the very next segment. There should be continuity there. If not, there is an open in the windings however this is very unlikely but worth checking out.

I'd check for continuity between the wires where they go into the switch and the brushes themselves. If you get no continuity between them, I'd say there is an open in the circuit somewhere and would be looking for a burned off brush lead or an open thermal overload switch somewhere. I am not too sure if there is one there or not, I've been looking at that device with the rivet in it where the red and spaded black wire meet at the motor, thinking/wondering if that's not a thermal overload switch or fuseable link that might be open.

Sometimes the lead on these carbon brushes gets really hot and melts down or comes out of the back of the brush all together. Have you inspected these parts yet?

 

[megacabcummins]

You know how many drill purchases you would have saved me over the years lol... Only one I still have that works is my DeWalt corded, that drill rocks.... Great write up :dblthumb2:

 

[dustthisnsx]

I would check for continuity between a few different points while the machine is apart. I don't mean to be insulting by suggesting this but, you have ohmed out the cord right?

To rule out a shorted armature, set your multi-meter to continuity and go between the shaft where the bearing presses on, to the copper segments of the commutator where the brushes ride on it. The windings and commutator should be insulated from the shaft so if you get continuity between the 2 there is likely a dead short in the armature. However, I'd think that would trip the GFCI receptacle.

Also, check for continuity between any one of the segments of the commutator to the very next segment. There should be continuity there. If not, there is an open in the windings however this is very unlikely but worth checking out.

I'd check for continuity between the wires where they go into the switch and the brushes themselves. If you get no continuity between them, I'd say there is an open in the circuit somewhere and would be looking for a burned off brush lead or an open thermal overload switch somewhere. I am not too sure if there is one there or not, I've been looking at that device with the rivet in it where the red and spaded black wire meet at the motor, thinking/wondering if that's not a thermal overload switch or fuseable link that might be open.

Sometimes the lead on these carbon brushes gets really hot and melts down or comes out of the back of the brush all together. Have you inspected these parts yet?

Thanks again for the detailed response :xyxthumbs: I haven't ohm'd the cord but did test for continuity and swapped it with a know good unit. I was thinking the same thing about that riveted piece... going to take a closer look at it. I'm currently out of the area but I'll look it over again and take the multi meter to it when I return. Oh and I have checked the lead on the carbon brushes and all was well there.

thanks again and I'll post my results

 

[dustthisnsx]

I would check for continuity between a few different points while the machine is apart. I don't mean to be insulting by suggesting this but, you have ohmed out the cord right?

To rule out a shorted armature, set your multi-meter to continuity and go between the shaft where the bearing presses on, to the copper segments of the commutator where the brushes ride on it. The windings and commutator should be insulated from the shaft so if you get continuity between the 2 there is likely a dead short in the armature. However, I'd think that would trip the GFCI receptacle.

Also, check for continuity between any one of the segments of the commutator to the very next segment. There should be continuity there. If not, there is an open in the windings however this is very unlikely but worth checking out.

I'd check for continuity between the wires where they go into the switch and the brushes themselves. If you get no continuity between them, I'd say there is an open in the circuit somewhere and would be looking for a burned off brush lead or an open thermal overload switch somewhere. I am not too sure if there is one there or not, I've been looking at that device with the rivet in it where the red and spaded black wire meet at the motor, thinking/wondering if that's not a thermal overload switch or fuseable link that might be open.

Sometimes the lead on these carbon brushes gets really hot and melts down or comes out of the back of the brush all together. Have you inspected these parts yet?

alright, back at it again at 12:00 because I can't sleep!

- Cord ohmed out at 0.00
- No continuity between the shaft where the bearing presses on, to the copper segments of the commutator where the brushes ride on it.
- No continuity between the windings,commutator and shaft.
- Continuity between any one of the segments of the commutator to the very next segment.
- NO Continuity between the wires where they go into the switch and the brushes themselves
- Pulled a part number off the device with the rivet in it where the red and spaded black wire meet at the motor. Turns out it's a simiconductor! (T1013MH A Tao9322)
Tested for continuity and got nothing, so off to the local hole-in-the-wall electronics joint for a fresh one.

Another member was kind enough take photos from his identical unit for the wiring layout. THANKS!!! I have included it for future reference>>>

 

[shinysideup]

Dave gave you a great explanation, but if you are still in the dark (and have some time) grab your Snap-On man and have him get the wiring diagram.

My thoughts: That buffer looks familiar, but for life of me, I can't remember who/what the real manufacture is. I'm thinking DeWalt.

Bill

Hi Bill,
The model of the polisher you are thinking of is the Black & Decker 6940 TYPE 100.
Doug

 

[tuscarora dave]

Pulled a part number off the device with the rivet in it where the red and spaded black wire meet at the motor. Turns out it's a simiconductor! (T1013MH A Tao9322)
Tested for continuity and got nothing, so off to the local hole-in-the-wall electronics joint for a fresh one.

Nice, Please post back if that was the problem.

Another member was kind enough take photos from his identical unit for the wiring layout. THANKS!!! I have included it for future reference>>>

That's the great thing about the members here, such a willingness to lend a hand.

 

[dustthisnsx]

Nice, Please post back if that was the problem.


That's the great thing about the members here, such a willingness to lend a hand.

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the delay but it took a while to track this part down. However with some help from a little electronics shop we were able to find the proper cross reference part (NTE 5637). Which I later located at FRYS I just finished sodering it in, plugged it in and squeezed the trigger and IT'S ALIVE!!! and just about jumped out of my hands from the torque! :buffing: Just wanted to thank everyone on here and hope this can help others in the future.

Final wiring pics to come once I can verify the variable speed portion is working... to late and don't want to wake everyone...

 

[tuscarora dave]

I just finished sodering it in, plugged it in and squeezed the trigger and IT'S ALIVE!!!.

Awesome!!! I was guessing as well as you but I guess they were somewhat educated guesses. Glad you got the problem figured out. Always happy to lend a hand. Thanks for posting back your findings/success.:dblthumb2: