What did I do wrong? New car paint now has scratches!

[fprintf]

I have a new Mazda Miata with a black hard top roof. The car is known to have rather soft paint, so I treated it really well. The car had zero scratches when I brought it home the other day, and I've been reading and really worrying about my first wash/detail. Here is what I did:

1. Rinse with cool water
2. Two bucket wash using a new microfiber chenille mitt (Meguiars)
3. Microfiber towel dry. A quick baggie test after this step confirmed the paint was smooth, so I skipped claying the car.
4. Apply Klasse All-In-One with the damp microfiber applicator included in the kit, rub off with a MF cloth
5. Apply Klasse Sealant Glaze with damp microfiber applicator. I put on what I thought was a light coat, and had to leave for a few hours. So I let it sit. When I came back to wipe it off I needed to use a clean damp MF with Quick Detailer to get the paint to shine up. In the evening in my garage, which has a single fluorescent light and a few overhead incandescent lights, it looked pretty good.

When I came home today I got my first look in direct sunlight and was shocked to see I have introduced what looks like a ton of fine swirls.

Do you think it was step #5 that scratched the paint?

I have a polisher but applied the Klasse by hand. I think I can fix this with my new polisher and some of the other stuff I have, I just don't want to make it worse.

 

[rider9195]

I definitely would have clayed the car. What MF towels are you using? If the towel isn't super soft it can scratch your very soft paint. You can easily fix this with a machine polisher and a very light polish.

 

[Mulligan]

I've never used Klasse but i always use foam applicators. If your process didn't induce the swirls perhaps it came from the dealer with a glaze that masked the fine swirls.

 

[Lasthope05]

There are a few things that caused the marring/scratches...

1. applicators
2. microfibers
3. KAIO removed the dealer applied glaze and revealed the paints true condition(most likely as KSG has a tendency to accentuate swirls)

Polish out a section of paint and see if your applicator or towels are causing it. However, like I said, dealers are notorious for shoddy prep work and covering it up with obscene amounts of fillers.

 

[jslym777]

why would you clay a new car? i dont clay unless its only low body panels and/or im machine polishing afterwards.

It could have been either application or removal of klasse. you also should know that in the washing step, this is only to remove lost dirt/dust etc. so dont push hard with the wash mit and or scrub with it. it is to be used lightly to wash the car. i also mainly use foam pads for most application of product and a plush microfiber towel to remove, and only in straight up/down or left/right motion.

 

[Kaban]

why would you clay a new car? i dont clay unless its only low body panels and/or im machine polishing afterwards.

It could have been either application or removal of klasse. you also should know that in the washing step, this is only to remove lost dirt/dust etc. so dont push hard with the wash mit and or scrub with it. it is to be used lightly to wash the car. i also mainly use foam pads for most application of product and a plush microfiber towel to remove, and only in straight up/down or left/right motion.

I guarantee you most "brand new" cars on the lot or even freshly delivered need claying and a thorough decontamination. Try it out some time, you'd be surprised.

 

[rider9195]

why would you clay a new car? i dont clay unless its only low body panels and/or im machine polishing afterwards.

It could have been either application or removal of klasse. you also should know that in the washing step, this is only to remove lost dirt/dust etc. so dont push hard with the wash mit and or scrub with it. it is to be used lightly to wash the car. i also mainly use foam pads for most application of product and a plush microfiber towel to remove, and only in straight up/down or left/right motion.

Many new cars that people buy sit on the lot for a while. All the airborne contaminants fall on the paint and eventually bond to the paint. Plus, I always take 30 mins to clay even a brand new car. I don't want to risk any contaminants getting in between the pad and paint and then causing more damage. I see it as an extra step of caution. Now not every new car is like this, but some are.

 

[tuscarora dave]

perhaps it came from the dealer with a glaze that masked the fine swirls.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[glen e]

I just picked up a '12 Z4 that came over from germany and did not sit on the dealer lot. It needed clay.

 

[TimmyG]

why would you clay a new car? i dont clay unless its only low body panels and/or im machine polishing afterwards.

It could have been either application or removal of klasse. you also should know that in the washing step, this is only to remove lost dirt/dust etc. so dont push hard with the wash mit and or scrub with it. it is to be used lightly to wash the car. i also mainly use foam pads for most application of product and a plush microfiber towel to remove, and only in straight up/down or left/right motion.

Why wouldn't you clay seems to be a better question imo. Have you ever purchased a new car? 90% of them sit outside in the elements for weeks to sometimes months until sold. I would ALWAYS wash, clay, decontaminate, wash, and seal a new car.

 

[tuscarora dave]

why would you clay a new car?

I guarantee you most "brand new" cars on the lot or even freshly delivered need claying and a thorough decontamination. Try it out some time, you'd be surprised.

I guess he didn't see the recent Iron-X video on that brand new Citroen.

A lot of dealerships are situated in some of the most industrialized areas, near factories, airports, highway systems, rail yards etc. etc. Why would you not clay a brand new car? Those cars don't go from the factory right to the customer's driveway in most cases so most brand new cars are hammered with industrial fallout.

 

[fprintf]

On the subject of claying, I was so petrified of scratching my car that I tried the clay in an unobtrusive spot in the rear corner of the roof. I did it correctly and it made tiny scratches, so I chickened out. I was relieved when a plastic baggie test revealed mostly smooth paint. Maybe it was too cold? Temp was in the mid50s all weekend.

The car was likely covered in plastic, had been dropped off the transporter truck the morning before we bought it. It sat in the dealer lot for 12 hours before being brought inside. Who knows how long it sat in Japan awaiting the ship to the U.S., or how long it sat exposed to the elements on the trip from California to Connecticut. I was surprised that the paint didn't seem to need claying.

Now that I need to polish the car I am going to clay it anyway. I have Meguiars 205 and Ultimate Polish, and white, grey and blue pads for my PC. I figure I can fix any damage the claying does... and on the white body nothing shows up anyway!

2012 Mazda MX-5 Special Edition - Imgur

Thanks everyone for the advice. Regarding the questions, I am using a variety of MF towels. Most of the ones I used on the paint were the ones included with my PC and Meguiars kits purchased from Autogeek. I have no idea what brand they are, but they were new and haven't seen paint or dirt previously. The only thing I did to them was rip off the tags.

 

[crxman2010]

If your process didn't induce the swirls perhaps it came from the dealer with a glaze that masked the fine swirls.

Wanted to add another vote here, I watched a guy wipe the "road grime" off a brand new z car on the show room floor with window cleaner in an aerosol can... Look great in the right lighting and upon further inspection, I would not have bought that car. I can walk around my car 3 times a day for 10 days, and each time, I will find something I did necessarily see the previous time whether because of lighting or luck couldn't say.

My wife figures I ruined her because she cannot look at a car the same way, she was shopping for the above z car when we saw mr. bob with the window cleaner cleaning it, (it was our road grime)... After a 30 second turtorial and placing her at particular angles, she was of the mind set that if she was to get a z car, they would have to order one (even if it was the same color) and they wouldn't be touching it. It made her half sick to think the average person could buy that car and never realize how much work the car already needed.

 

[jslym777]

if you are going to clay then be prepared to follow up with a polish, id never clay a car if i dont have a polishing step afterwards. and IF there is a dealer glaze that hid swirl marks before, then the klasse steps should have done a pretty good job of hiding them as well. iron x on the other hand differs from claying. you arent running any material over the paint. rail dust etc. is fine to remove on new cars. and iron x is good at that and id use it any day. i never said i wouldnt remove rail dust, i just would choose iron x over claying, and i didnt say i wouldnt clay at all i said i would stick to lower panels.

 

[lexterminator]

The fine swirls could also be coming from your drying step. Reason I mention this is that on my black non metallic paint I have been creating tiny scratches visible only at direct sunlight just by drying the car. My paint is very sensitive so to dry the car I have to use quick detailer and a plush microfiber towel... not waffles or other drying towels because on my paint they create marring even when being very gentle when wiping. Those lines can easily be corrected with mild polish and finishing pad.

 

[Lasthope05]

if you are going to clay then be prepared to follow up with a polish, id never clay a car if i dont have a polishing step afterwards. and IF there is a dealer glaze that hid swirl marks before, then the klasse steps should have done a pretty good job of hiding them as well. iron x on the other hand differs from claying. you arent running any material over the paint. rail dust etc. is fine to remove on new cars. and iron x is good at that and id use it any day. i never said i wouldnt remove rail dust, i just would choose iron x over claying, and i didnt say i wouldnt clay at all i said i would stick to lower panels.

I take it you have no experience with klasse because it does not hid swirls and have little to no filling capabilities. KAIO is a chemical paint cleaner with a smidge of acrylic sealant. The use of the word glaze in the name doesnt necessarily put it in the same category as regular filler glazes similar to zaino naming their sealants polishes.


_______

OP, did you at least wash the towels before you used them? Even thought they are new they should be washed as they pick up dirt and debris during shipping from the manufacturer to distributor to packers.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

No one has brought up that this simply could be KSG residue as the OP has stated he put a lot on and had trouble getting it off. KSG residue can look like holograms etc.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

If your initial inspection there were no swirls, and now there are swirls throughout the finish, there's a pattern here that can be isolated to

The swirls were there before you took possession and masked by a previously applied coat of something

You instilled the swirls in one or two or even three of the steps where you "touched" the paint.


Car paint, especially clear coats are scratch-sensitive. They are easily scratched but the scratches are difficult to remove traditional ways, this is why machine polishing has become so popular since the 1980's and the introduction of discussion forum software.


While finding out how it happened is important so it doesn't happen again, at this point you need to machine polish the car to remove the swirls and scratches.

I for one try to every paint care step by machine, the only time I ever apply anything by hand is if I have to including applying waxes and sealants. If I could apply coatings by machine I would do that also.


What do you have for a machine? Pads? Polishes?


Also, I wrote the below article specifically for people new to KSG but it applies to anyone using ANY new wax, sealant or coating that they've never used before.


A tip for working with waxes, paint sealants or coatings that are new to you


Tip: Test to small area first
Anytime you're going to use a wax, paint sealant or coating that is a product you've never used before, especially if you're planning on applying it to the entire car... to get a feel for how the product applies and most important, how it wipes off, first test the product to a small area.

This way you'll be familiar with the application and wipe-off characteristics for the specific product before applying to the entire car.


A small area = about a foot squared
The average size square microfiber towel is 16" by 16", which is a little larger than a foot squared. So for your test section, lay a clean microfiber towel out flat, like this,

Then use this area as a guide as to how large of an area to apply the product onto in order to get a good feel for both the application and wipe-off characteristics of the new-to-you product.


Follow the manufactures directions
Manufactures know their product formulas best so take a moment to read the directions for application and removal on the label and then follow them as recommended.

Waxes and Paint Sealants that dry
If the directions state that you should allow the product to dry to haze before removal then allow the product to dry before removing it.


The Swipe Test
Here's a handy test to check and see if a wax or paint sealant is dry and ready to remove, The Swipe Test


Wipe-on, wipe-off waxes and paint sealants
Some products are formulated to be removed before they dry, these are called wipe-on, wipe-off waxes. If you're using a wipe-on, wipe-off wax then immediately after applying the wax to the entire car go ahead and remove it.


Products vary and climatic conditions vary
The chemistry between products can be very different; some products wipe off a tick on the difficult side while some products wipe off incredibly easy.

Products perform differently in different environmental conditions; a product that applies and remove easily in a humid area may apply and wipe off with great difficulty in another geographical location that's hot and dry.


The idea behind this tip is for you to become acquainted with a product you've never used before in your specific geographical, environmental and climatic location.


For some people, what this may teach them is the importance of applying a thin coating and if you're new to the world of detailing in general and waxing by hand in specific, you might not know 100% exactly what is meant by a thin coating and you don't want to learn what thin means the hard way.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[fprintf]

While finding out how it happened is important so it doesn't happen again, at this point you need to machine polish the car to remove the swirls and scratches.

I for one try to every paint care step by machine, the only time I ever apply anything by hand is if I have to including applying waxes and sealants. If I could apply coatings by machine I would do that also.

Yes, and earlier in the day I had used my new PC7424XP on my wife's Volvo to some pretty good results. This was using Meguiar's 205 to do some slight correction, and then applying Meguiar's NXT 2.0 as a wax. But since the Klasse was recommended to be applied by hand, that is what I did for both the AIO and SG.

What do you have for a machine? Pads? Polishes?

PC7424XP, 5 inch Lake Country backing pad, 6.5" CCS pads. I have 1 orange, 2 white, 2 grey, 1 blue and 2 red (non CCS, they were a bonus). For polishes I have the following: Meguiar's 205 and Ultimate Polish. For wax I have NXT 2.0. If I have to go locally to buy some 105 I can do that, though in looking at the slight scratches I think/hope what I have will work!

Also, I wrote the below article specifically for people new to KSG but it applies to anyone using ANY new wax, sealant or coating that they've never used before.

A tip for working with waxes, paint sealants or coatings that are new to you

Tip: Test to small area first
Anytime you're going to use a wax, paint sealant or coating that is a product you've never used before, especially if you're planning on applying it to the entire car... to get a feel for how the product applies and most important, how it wipes off, first test the product to a small area.

This way you'll be familiar with the application and wipe-off characteristics for the specific product before applying to the entire car.

This is one thing I did not do. I applied everything to the whole car, applying and wiping, or applying and letting sit as the directions allowed. I really should have tried it in a small area to see what would happen. I don't know why or how I ignored this advice!

For some people, what this may teach them is the importance of applying a thin coating and if you're new to the world of detailing in general and waxing by hand in specific, you might not know 100% exactly what is meant by a thin coating and you don't want to learn what thin means the hard way.

:xyxthumbs:

I read so many threads on how to apply Klasse and how to take care of my paint while I waited anxiously for my package to arrive from Autogeek. I even read the postings on applying the Klasse very lightly, but like most newbies, I really had no idea how thin it really meant. Thinking back now, it was way to thick and the arm power required to get it off, and the fact I had to use Quick Detailer on a MF cloth meant I definitely overdid it. Live and learn, and try a small area first!

Thanks Mike and everyone else for the advice and help. I think I have all the right kit to fix this, and now that I have washed the microfibers I should be good to go!

 

[Jim B]

Hi guys and gals,

RE: claying, fprintf said he saw scratches when he started to clay...are there less aggressive and more aggressive clays? Could that make a difference in whether the clay scratched the surface? If so, is there some chart showing less aggressive and more aggressive clays?

RE: polishes and pad combos, would it be wise to suggest starting less aggressive and working towards more aggressive as needed? fprintf, there is a chart on autopia's website that shows which polishes are least to most aggressive that might help you.

fprintf, I'm not telling, I'm a newbie asking. :cheers: Thanks as always for everyone's input.
Jim B.