What is the Purpose of the Show n' Shine Forum?

RChicago said:
I am sure that if Mike thought the same way about detailing, this forum would not be what it is today.

Tom
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One of these days I'll type up the story behind how I became involved in the detailing world but the nutshell version goes like this,

  • The paint on my car was in bad shape. (new paint job)
  • I didn't know how to fix the problem. (Which product to use and how to use them)
  • I asked car guys around me. (The shared what they knew but what they knew was the way it was always done and the way it was always done was the wrong way)
  • I read all the books and magazine articles on the topic of polishing paint. (They all shared the same products and techniques given to me by the car guys around me)


Since the Internet wasn't around and I didn't now any better I took the advice I received and did the best I could do and the end results was the paint looked better than when I started but I knew it could look better.

I almost ruined a brand new paint job taking bad advice but I don't blame the people that gave me the advice because they were just sharing what they knew, they didn't know what they knew was bad advice.

It was truly a case of people sharing,

"That's the way it's always been done"​


Anyway, after going through that experience I can empathize with everyone that starts out like I did and that is knowing nothing. And we ALL start out knowing nothing. I feel their pain.

Instead of allowing them to struggle or worse, make a mistake it's always been my passion to try to help them get the results they're looking for the first time.

I've never subscribed to the idea of keeping what I use or how I use it secret, in fact I'm just the opposite, I show everything and then when questioned I do my best to answer in detail whether the person asking a question is genuinely looking for help or has their own nefarious reasons for their questions and take my word for it I've dealt with both types of people on forums for years now and i can tell real fast which type is which.


Good thread, not sure what else I can add as for the points brought up... the good news is no one is forced to >click< on a thread...


:)
 
Flannigan said:
I do see they issues that you are talking about. I use the show and shines to gain business, but I also make sure that I respond to each and every person that takes the time to post in my threads.

I also give my full process and products used to try and use it as a teaching/learning experience for anyone who may be interested.
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And that's something I respect about your write-ups and everyone that follows the above pattern...


:dblthumb2:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
One of these days I'll type up the story behind how I became involved in the detailing world but the nutshell version goes like this,

  • The paint on my car was in bad shape. (new paint job)
  • I didn't know how to fix the problem. (Which product to use and how to use them)
  • I asked car guys around me. (The shared what they knew but what they knew was the way it was always done and the way it was always done was the wrong way)
  • I read all the books and magazine articles on the topic of polishing paint. (They all shared the same products and techniques given to me by the car guys around me)


Since the Internet wasn't around and I didn't now any better I took the advice I received and did the best I could do and the end results was the paint looked better than when I started but I knew it could look better.

I almost ruined a brand new paint job taking bad advice but I don't blame the people that gave me the advice because they were just sharing what they knew, they didn't know what they knew was bad advice.

It was truly a case of people sharing,

"That's the way it's always been done"​


Anyway, after going through that experience I can empathize with everyone that starts out like I did and that is knowing nothing. And we ALL start out knowing nothing. I feel their pain.

Instead of allowing them to struggle or worse, make a mistake it's always been my passion to try to help them get the results they're looking for the first time.

I've never subscribed to the idea of keeping what I use or how I use it secret, in fact I'm just the opposite, I show everything and then when questioned I do my best to answer in detail whether the person asking a question is genuinely looking for help or has their own nefarious reasons for their questions and take my word for it I've dealt with both types of people on forums for years now and i can tell real fast which type is which.


Good thread, not sure what else I can add as for the points brought up... the good news is no one is forced to >click< on a thread...


:)
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I thank you so much for that, I truly do. Most anyone you talk to says turtle wax is the only one..they swear by it, yet they never tried anything else. I listened and I to did not like the results. When I get everything I need I'll make a write up of my paint correction on my truck, but will for sure explain in detail every step I take.:)
 
The show and shine forum is different things to different people:

To the hobbyist it can be a place to glean tricks of the trade
For the pro it can be a way to promote the business
For other pros it may be a way to "give back" to the community

Either way, there is no right or wrong.

For those that share their products / process = good on them
For those that don't share products / process = good on them

We (readers/members of the forums) are not entitled to all the information. If the author chooses to disclose such info, that is purely at their discretion and in my opinion no one should be chastised for not doing so.

To answer the question of the OP more directly: In my opinion, the purpose of THIS forums S&S is to sell/promote products that AG sells. Is that a bad thing? Not at all, it is their forum so they can do as they please... Much the same as the authors of a given show and shine post can decide to share products/process'..............or not.
 
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Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
And that's something I respect about your write-ups and everyone that follows the above pattern...


:dblthumb2:
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Thanks Mike, I'm very happy that it is noticed.
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
The show and shine forum is different things to different people:

To the hobbyist it can be a place to glean tricks of the trade
For the pro it can be a way to promote the business
For other pros it may be a way to "give back" to the community

Either way, there is no right or wrong.

For those that share their products / process = good on them
For those that don't share products / process = good on them

We (readers/members of the forums) are not entitled to all the information. If the author chooses to disclose such info, that is purely at their discretion and in my opinion no one should be chastised for not doing so.

To answer the question of the OP more directly: In my opinion, the purpose of THIS forums S&S is to sell/promote products that AG sells. Is that a bad thing? Not at all, it is their forum so they can do as they please... Much the same as the authors of a given show and shine post can decide to share products/process'..............or not.
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With all due respect, the people that flat out refuse to go over their process and products are being a little silly. There is nothing that they are doing that 100 other people don't already know. I know we all come up with our own tricks and so on, but to refuse to go over your process for fear of someone stealing it is a little insane to me....
 
for me the S&S forum is a place to share my work with others, i don't use it for any other reason if i get business good! if i don't no big deal because i'm not using it for that, i hate when detailers say "i used a secret process" that just makes no logical sense, we are here to help each other and learn new things so why take away a learning experience from somebody? that's why i post my process and products and will answer any questions pertaining to the detail itself.
 
Flannigan said:
With all due respect, the people that flat out refuse to go over their process and products are being a little silly. There is nothing that they are doing that 100 other people don't already know. I know we all come up with our own tricks and so on, but to refuse to go over your process for fear of someone stealing it is a little insane to me....
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You are entitled to your opinion, but not their process....

You can search the show and shines that I have posted and see that I have shared my process steps and products but again, that is MY CHOICE!

I think that people these days feel that they are entitled to something or that someone has to share... That is simply not the case. We are not entitled to anything! I see the "entitlement" attitude quite often and don't understand it... Just because someone does "X" does not mean that they owe you "Y"

What people are entitled to is their choice of whether or not they look at / comment on the threads started by people who do not share these details. If you do not like the style in which a detailer presents his show and shines simply do not open the thread - problem solved!
 
Flannigan said:
With all due respect, the people that flat out refuse to go over their process and products are being a little silly. There is nothing that they are doing that 100 other people don't already know. I know we all come up with our own tricks and so on, but to refuse to go over your process for fear of someone stealing it is a little insane to me....
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I can accept no process comments but then they may not get any feedback from me but that does not matter to them or me.

I think the lack of showing process is all about crafting an image. They are just showing nice looking rides either doing it for self-promotion or kudo's from fellow "pro's" where it may be expected for their posts (courtesy kudos).
 
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Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
You are entitled to your opinion, but not their process....

You can search the show and shines that I have posted and see that I have shared my process steps and products but again, that is MY CHOICE!

I think that people these days feel that they are entitled to something or that someone has to share... That is simply not the case. We are not entitled to anything! I see the "entitlement" attitude quite often and don't understand it... Just because someone does "X" does not mean that they owe you "Y"

What people are entitled to is their choice of whether or not they look at / comment on the threads started by people who do not share these details. If you do not like the style in which a detailer presents his show and shines simply do not open the thread - problem solved!
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Entitlement is the wrong word. I'm not entitled to anything from other detailers. IMO it gives off a bad image to hide your process or products. It's one of two things IMO, either you use products or processes that you aren't proud of/people don't like or you think you do something so special you don't want anyone else to know how to do it.

I've got nothing to hide, anyone can ask me anything about what i do, what I use and how I do it. I think its
arrogant (which lets be honest, most of the "popular/famous" detailers are) to not give tips and help out other people who share your same interests. If you don't post them out of sheer laziness then you fall into the category of only in it for self promotion. that is fine, but I think most people see that for what it is.
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
You are entitled to your opinion, but not their process....

You can search the show and shines that I have posted and see that I have shared my process steps and products but again, that is MY CHOICE!

I think that people these days feel that they are entitled to something or that someone has to share... That is simply not the case. We are not entitled to anything! I see the "entitlement" attitude quite often and don't understand it... Just because someone does "X" does not mean that they owe you "Y"

What people are entitled to is their choice of whether or not they look at / comment on the threads started by people who do not share these details. If you do not like the style in which a detailer presents his show and shines simply do not open the thread - problem solved!
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Very well stated. We are all entitled to our own opinions but must respect the choices of others. So often members are called out by other members and may not know what went into the choices they have made. There are a lot of post offered on various forums that I don't agree with or see differently but I have always taken the "if you can't say anything nice then say nothing" direction and moved on. The few times I have ignored my own advice has usually shown I should have followed my own earlier advice.
 
Flannigan said:
Entitlement is the wrong word.
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I do not agree, an author of a post made a decision to not post products/process...Some of the posters in that thread felt that because the OP posted a thread in the show and shine that automatically means they had a right to the products used and process steps...

en·ti·tle·ment/enˈtītlmənt/

Noun:
  1. The fact of having a right to something.
  2. The amount to which a person has a right.




FONT]


Flannigan said:
IMO it gives off a bad image to hide your process or products. It's one of two things IMO, either you use products or processes that you aren't proud of/people don't like or you think you do something so special you don't want anyone else to know how to do it.
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Or it can also mean that a business has worked hard to hone their craft and had to think "out of the box" in what they do and how they do it and want to protect that competitive edge, especially considering that these threads are public and you may have someone in your same area that is trying to "do what you do".

If what the detailer is doing to achieve this level of success, perfection is not something that is "special" I wonder why all the hoopla started when the process/products were not shared.

Flannigan said:
If you don't post them out of sheer laziness then you fall into the category of only in it for self promotion. That is fine, but I think most people see that for what it is..
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It seems that there is a consensus that promoting one's business is a bad thing.... I guess I do not agree with that notion.

FOR THE RECORD: On the rare occasion that I do a show and shine thread these days I do share my products/process' but, that is my right... I am just playing devils advocate to give a little insight on what I see from the "other side of the fence"- My opinions in this thread are not meant to be inflamatory but I would be remiss if I did not share my opinions
 
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I'm going to echo the sentiments of Dave and several on here. You come to know pretty quickly who is into shameless self-promotion with no intention of helping others whatsoever. You will not see me comment on those threads. I always share what I do, which, admittedly is sometimes out of the box thinking. I like to share what works and what doesn't. We all learn from our mistakes as well as our successes.
I must disclose that I provide a link to the thread for each customer that I do. I want them to know the amount of work and steps that went into their vehicle's transformation. That is why you'll never see me comment negatively on the condition of a car when it arrives. Past mistakes are forgiven; at least they brought it to me to correct!
IMO forums are a place to learn. Learn from them and share your knowledge. I will never buy into the "I can't disclose for competitive reasons" line of BS.
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
I do not agree, an author of a post made a decision to not post products/process...Some of the posters in that thread felt that because the OP posted a thread in the show and shine that automatically means they had a right to the products used and process steps...

en·ti·tle·ment/enˈtītlmənt/


Noun:
  1. The fact of having a right to something.
  2. The amount to which a person has a right.



FONT]



Or it can also mean that a business has worked hard to hone their craft and had to think "out of the box" in what they do and how they do it and want to protect that competitive edge, especially considering that these threads are public and you may have someone in your same area that is trying to "do what you do".

If what the detailer is doing to achieve this level of success, perfection is not something that is "special" I wonder why all the hoopla started when the process/products were not shared.



It seems that there is a consensus that promoting one's business is a bad thing.... I guess I do not agree with that notion.

FOR THE RECORD: On the rare occasion that I do a show and shine thread these days I do share my products/process' but, that is my right... I am just playing devils advocate to give a little insight on what I see from the "other side of the fence"- My opinions in this thread are not meant to be inflamatory but I would be remiss if I did not share my opinions
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I know the English language, and I know what I said. People who don't post products/processes for two reasons 1. laziness 2. arrogance. It's not an issue, just a fact.

Also I have no problem with promoting a business. I promote my business in every show and shine I make along with in my signature on the forum. that is what a savvy business owner should do. All I'm saying is there isn't anything that one guy on here is doing that no one else has come up with.
 
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