Glossmeter

[Waxy]

A lot of tests & reviews on the forum but have any of the Autogeek guys ever use a glossmeter to measure the gloss produced by the products that are offered by your company? What product of combination of products produce the highest gloss as tested by a glossmeter.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The glossmeter provides a quantifiable way of measuring gloss intensity ensuring consistency of measurement by defining the precise illumination and viewing conditions. The configuration of both illumination source and observation reception angles allows measurement over a small range of the overall reflection angle. The measurement results of a glossmeter are related to the amount of reflected light from a black glass standard with a defined refractive index. The ratio of reflected to incident light for the specimen, compared to the ratio for the gloss standard, is recorded as gloss units.
Three measurement angles are specified to cover the majority of industrial coatings applications. The angle is selected for a particular application based on the anticipated gloss range.

 

[embolism]

I use a compound glossmeter... I believe the layman's term is peepers...

 

[FUNX650]

We used glossmeters to check the results after each step of the painting process (e-coat/primer, BC, CC) using this standard, (that the customers deemed acceptable, at that time):
-ASTM D5767-95(2004): Standard Test Methods for Instrumental Measurement of Distinctness-of-Image Gloss of Coating Surfaces.

But, and due...
-To the fact that there was/is an inordinate amount of "Orange Peel"...Having an: Orange Peel Meter proved to be more of an accurate measurement of each film layer, including the final film-coat..CC!
-So, just for the factory's vehicles "paint-kitchen applied" CC paint fim, without any other 'touching it'---( compounding/polishing/LSP'ing, for example)---that's the best gloss you're going to get.


-So yes...I've personally used a gloss meter...But it wasn't mine. I haven't bought one, and don't plan on it.

-But here's what can recollect from several(many) years ago.

Gloss "Levels" (paint manufacturers scale):
-Flat...(matte)...basically 'free' of any shine/sheen/gloss
-Eggshell..Rough surface...many hills/valleys
-Semi-gloss...Less hills/valleys
-Full-gloss...Almost mirror-like

Then there's: Light Reflective Values (LRV)
-Black...around 5% reflection. Up to:
-Pure White....around 85-90%
(The rest of the colors fall within these)
-Example: Color with a LRV of 25% will reflect 25% of light/heat that hits/falls on it. This is determined by the use of the "gray-scale": Pure Wite=100%; Black=20%

Then there's these gloss-factors:
-Spatial Gloss(same as specula, I think)...Mirror-like shine..."tighter/more focused" reflections of heat/light...Pure White
-Diffuse Gloss...light/heat reflected in many directions...Matte


Now on to an applying an LSP-film to a previously untouched CC paint-film:
-They're usually about: .000001" 'thick'.
-They must cure 100% optically clear to allow the clearness of the underlying CC, then, which allow the BC color be unobstructed (muted/opaque)
-This Optically-Clear state is known as: Distinction of Image..D.O.I.

-Any product applied atop the CC paint-film has to have a very good D.O.I. characteristic or the CC paint-film, and subsequently the BC paint film, will be muted/opaque...As well as the range of the shine/gloss affected.

-So far, to my knowledge, Meguire's #26 Hybrid Wax is the only uncontested/verified LSP that actually increases the D.O.I.
-No doubt, some of the other waxes/sealants/Coatings that cure optically-clear will not exhibit muting, or create immediate opaqueness.

I prefer to leave the gloss meters to the guys in the Lab coats, and compare their tests results with my own empirical testing.
So far...I still like a film of good Ol'#26 on my vehicles, when I'm not testing a sealant or two. Opti-Gard/Coat 2.0...Pretty soon!!



Bob

 

[Waxy]

Is this the Meguire's wax you are referring to:

 

[Jomax]

Is this the Meguire's wax you are referring to:

That's the one

 

[FUNX650]

Is this the Meguire's wax you are referring to:

That's the one

Thanks Jomax!!

Paste or liquid...Either way, #26 for excellent D.O.I.!!






Bob


EDIT: I knew I could find this posting, sooner or later, by Mr. Mike Phillips.

I have a catalog in my collection from 1988 that states,


M26 is the only wax that will increase the D.O.I. of a previously polished surface.


The context of that statement was after using #7 Show Car Glaze on black paint, most waxes would decrease D.O.I. while M26 would actually increase D.O.I.

I asked a chemist friend about this and he said it was because M26 has/had the ability to bend light. Maybe one of our engineering type people can explain how that would work...


D.O.I. = Distinction of Image

The ability of a surface to reflect an image clearly. A mirror offers 100% D.O.I.

 

[Waxy]

It appears the data for D.O.I. of M26 is from 1988. Any other products introduced after the test date that Autogeek sells that meets or exceeds M26 for gloss enhancement? As a LSP why should I buy anything other then M26?

 

[FUNX650]

It appears the data for D.O.I. of M26 is from 1988. Any other products introduced after the test date that Autogeek sells that meets or exceeds M26 for gloss enhancement? As a LSP why should I buy anything other then M26?

1988: Just as the ASTM Standard for D.O.I. has been "Date-Revised"...I'd bet the farm that Meguiar's has revised this particular 1988 date, especially if they deemed it was necessary...as is the practice for most car-care product lines.

{Perhaps contacting the car-care product Company, of an LSP one is interested in, about their gloss-tests results would be a starting place for their most current, up to date information regarding glossiness of said LSP.
-I'm sure someone, such as Dr. G of Optimum Technologies, for example, would be obliging in this aspect.}


Buying LSP's: I suppose it will depend on the type, and functionality of an LSP you're looking for:

-In my layman terms...

Waxes---carnuba, Bees, montan, etc.; Forms a protective bonded layer/film on top of the paintwork...Considered to have: Short life-cycle

Sealants---Acrylic, resin, amino-functional, etc.; Forms a protective cross-linking layer/film, with/within itself, and bonds to the underlying paintwork...Considered to have a longer life-cycle than waxes.

Wax/Sealant Hybrids---Good Combination of the characteristics of wax and sealant, IMO. Forms a protective layer/film with some cross-linking/bonding to, and bonding above the paintwork...Considered to have a life-cyle longer than waxes.

Coatings---Ceramic, Nano-ceramic, resin, etc.; Forms a protective cross-linking layer/film, with/within itself, and to the underlying paintwork...Considered to have more longevity than either of the above...With different levels/degrees of "permanance".


When I use M#26: It's for the extra gloss-benefits, whether this is actual, or, only in my: "eye of the beholder".
Of course: YMMV.




Bob

 

[Waxy]

Hoping Mr.Phillips would chime in. I would assume he may have the gloss test results from all the various car-care product companies. The point is I believe acceptable results can be obtained by almost any product line, but I assume test data is also available.
Taking product life cycle out of the equation let the test data be the guide when trying to achieve the highest gloss.

 

[rwright]

<snipped>

When I use M#26: It's for the extra gloss-benefits, whether this is actual, or, only in my: "eye of the beholder".
Of course: YMMV.




Bob

So it wasn't my imagination that when I used M26 liquid that the paint appeared brighter? This thread is just another reason why I'm glad you're around Bob!

 

[FUNX650]

Hoping Mr.Phillips would chime in. I would assume he may have the gloss test results from all the various car-care product companies. The point is I believe acceptable results can be obtained by almost any product line, but I assume test data is also available.
Taking product life cycle out of the equation let the test data be the guide when trying to achieve the highest gloss.

-Man Oh Man!! That would be a god-send if Mr. Phillips does have those gloss-tests you mention!!!

-Depends on what one defines as: acceptable results, I suppose.

-Laboratory testing data often runs askew with empirical testing data.



Bob

 

[CEE DOG]

Bob for president!

I very much would like a gloss meter as an add on for my testing.... But cannot rationalize the cost.

I have some thoughts on a couple products that I would really love to confirm with a gloss meter before opening my mouth.

 

[FUNX650]

I very much would like a gloss meter as an add on for my testing.... But cannot rationalize the cost.

I have some thoughts on a couple products that I would really love to confirm with a gloss meter before opening my mouth.

Hi Corey...

-One place I know of rents gloss meters. If you want to contact them...Ask if you can rent a: Elkometer Novo-Gloss 406 with the 20/60/85 contact angle degrees. I know the mini-version rents for around $55-60 per/day...but it only has the 20/60 degree function. 1.800.974.2492


BTW: What products? As you well know...
Application/curing of LSP's, including Coatings, in regards to vehicles' CC paint-film; due to their methods of "bonding"; doesn't always equate to: 'smooth LSP'ed surfaces', so to speak.
The more the Smooth-ness, the more the gloss-ness...for good-ness sake-ness!

Am I in the ballpark?



Bob

 

[CEE DOG]

Excellent Bob!!! I will look into this. :cheers:

 

[BobbyG]

I use a compound glossmeter... I believe the layman's term is peepers...

I believe you're right!! rops: