Hey Mike, OVER HERE!!!

[Chase.Barnett]

Hola Mike!

I'm newly "registered" here, but I've been a long time visitor! I'm glad to finally be official around this place. :xyxthumbs:

Here's my situation and I would love your professional input and advice here.

I purchased a 2010 Civic Si Sedan in Nighthawk Black Pearl off of the showroom floor in November of 09. At the time, I didn't have a garage or a place to detail on a regular basis. (Still to this day, the only detailing I have done has been by hand. Blechhh)

Fast forward a few years. My car just recently hit 60k and I've been planning on trading it, but I have settled on giving it a good detail and hanging on to it for about another year or so. I figured that the best way for me to enjoy it for the remaining time would to to make it look better that new again.

With that being said, I finally have a valid excuse to cave and buy me a new Polisher. :buffing:

The car's paint is in the condition to be expected of a black vehicle that hasn't exactly been "pampered." A few scratches here and there, swirl marks everywhere (even though I always make it a point to use microfiber only). Granted, I tried my best, but the black civic has proved to be too much for me to take care of by using stuff from WalMart and applying by hand.

For a long time I wanted the PC, but after doing some research, I think I've landed on the Flex 3401.

Pictures of the car can be provided, but right now I'm between the Flex/XMT Intermediate Swirl kit, and the Flex/Wolfgang Concours kit. Am I headed in the right direction here, and which product would you go with if you lived here in Hot and Sticky Houston?

OR, have I missed the ball completely and should I be looking at, let's say, Meg's 105/205? After correcting the paint, I was thinking about 1-2 coats Klasse Sealant...

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Chase

 

[mjlinane]

Welcome to AGO!!

Pictures would be helpful as would a clear idea of your expectations and plans (just improved or show car, etc. & only your cars or expanding to others). The Flex is an excellent machine.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hola Mike!

I'm newly "registered" here, but I've been a long time visitor! I'm glad to finally be official around this place. :xyxthumbs:

Love seeing lurkers transition to active members!

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:

Here's my situation and I would love your professional input and advice here.

I purchased a 2010 Civic Si Sedan in Nighthawk Black Pearl off of the showroom floor in November of 09. At the time, I didn't have a garage or a place to detail on a regular basis. (Still to this day, the only detailing I have done has been by hand. Blechhh)

I owned a 04 Pilot in the same color, the paint buffs easy and looks great all polished out...

For a long time I wanted the PC, but after doing some research, I think I've landed on the Flex 3401.


Chase

You'll have to make the decision as to get the PC or the Flex, the Flex is a Pro-Grade tool and the PC is the most reliable of it's type proven by it's history and record over time. Both will do the job.

As for polishes, I would go with either the Menzerna Twins or Menzerna Polishes. You just can't beat the quality of Menzerna polishes for finishing out flawless on black paint.

 

[ihaveacamaro]

I'd go with the PC, just for this reason:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XAqpOe9Zt4]How Safe is the PC-7424XP? - Part 1 - YouTube[/video]

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'd go with the PC, just for this reason:

I have a video like that from some work we did on Motorhead Garage... :laughing:


To see how safe these tools really are, check out this video where I place extreme pressure to the back of my hand using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

[video=youtube_share;PWdYCHZrpd8"]How To Remove Oxidation by Machine Polishing with Mike Phillips on Motorhead Garage - YouTube[/video]



To the OP,

The Flex 3401 is also very safe too and for working on small cars a really good way to go would be with the 4" backing plate and the new 5" foam pads.


Lake Country Hybrid Power Finish 5 Inch Foam Pads


If you're just going to work on your own cars it's pretty hard to beat a Porter Cable 7424XP with all the latest pad and product technology being introduced.

If you think you want to detail for money, the the Flex 3401 with the 4" backing plate and the 5" foam pads will enable you to work faster, completely safe and swirl-free.

Plus no issues with pads not rotating when buffing non flat surfaces.

If you're into cars and into car detailing, then don't limit yourself to just one tool, get one type of tool now and down the road get a different style.

A quality tool will last a long time and give you options to choose from depending upon your detailing project.

 

[Bosco]

I'd stay away from using M105 on that soft paint. Start on the gentle side with a test spot with some ColorX, and gradually step up the aggressiveness. I've seen plenty of Nighthawk Black Pearl with clear coat failure after an aggressive correction and polishing.

 

[ihaveacamaro]

I have a video like that from some work we did on Motorhead Garage... :laughing:


To see how safe these tools really are, check out this video where I place extreme pressure to the back of my hand using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

How To Remove Oxidation by Machine Polishing with Mike Phillips on Motorhead Garage - YouTube

Yup, this is the exact reason I want to go with the PC.

Question though, and I know I'm off topic here, but in both videos you guys are pushing down hard. What would happen if you weren't pushing down hard, the speed was on the highest, and you weren't moving the pad. Would that create enough heat to burn through the paint?

 

[Chase.Barnett]

Love seeing lurkers transition to active members!

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:




I owned a 04 Pilot in the same color, the paint buffs easy and looks great all polished out...

You'll have to make the decision as to get the PC or the Flex, the Flex is a Pro-Grade tool and the PC is the most reliable of it's type proven by it's history and record over time. Both will do the job.

As for polishes, I would go with either the Menzerna Twins or Menzerna Polishes. You just can't beat the quality of Menzerna polishes for finishing out flawless on black paint.

I have heard Menzerna recommended to people around here many times. I guess I just never gave them any thought.. I was looking at their products, but there's so many different polishes. I'm not sure which ones to go for. Feed back please

The reason I was going for the Flex was because I had read several threads on here where people had started with the PC, but regretted not buying a flex. Apparently the flex cuts the time detailing in half? I simply just didn't want to buy the PC and then in a few months time regret not buying the Flexto begin with.Is the Flex worth the extra money?

 

[bigez]

I think it depends on how many times you're going to be polishing. If you're going to be detailing cars all the time, it would make sense to spend more money for a tool that can be faster.
I got a regular PC 7424, and it does fine for my needs.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Question though, and I know I'm off topic here, but in both videos you guys are pushing down hard.

What would happen if you weren't pushing down hard, the speed was on the highest, and you weren't moving the pad.

Would that create enough heat to burn through the paint?

First, the risk of burning through the clear coat finish on a new car is relatively low as long as you're using common sense. I have an article that explains the importance of making it a "Best Practice" to no buff on top of raised body lines.

The reason for this is because,

1. Paint is thinnest on high points.
2. Raised body lines mean more pressure against any pad that's rotating which means more heat and more abrading to a smaller area of paint.
3. If the car us used or it has been previously buffed, there's a good chance the people that have buffed on the car before you could have already buffed on the raised body lines without practicing the "Best Practice".

That's just off the top of my head but those are the three major reasons...

What I tell people, again assuming a person is using common sense, if you buff through the clear layer of paint using a DA Polisher you would probably have buffed through the clear layer of paint by hand using the same products and aggressive level of application material.


The other thing I always tell people is that buffing or burning through the clear layer of paint when using a DA Polisher like the Porter Cable, G110v2 and Griot's Garage DA Polisher would be the least of my worries, especially for a new car that has not been to an archaic, caveman detailer.


As for showing the highest setting and pushing down hard, that's when the pad is rotating most forcefully and that's when it's going to be removing the most paint.

If I didn't push down hard the pad would just skim over my hand. You would never try to remove swirls or any other "below surface defect" with a pad just skimming over the surface.

Does that help?

 

[5.4 Shelby]

I have heard Menzerna recommended to people around here many times. I guess I just never gave them any thought.. I was looking at their products, but there's so many different polishes. I'm not sure which ones to go for. Feed back please

The reason I was going for the Flex was because I had read several threads on here where people had started with the PC, but regretted not buying a flex. Apparently the flex cuts the time detailing in half? I simply just didn't want to buy the PC and then in a few months time regret not buying the Flexto begin with.Is the Flex worth the extra money?

Personally, I would go with the PC. You may decide you dont like polishing paint at all. Then it would be better to leave a $100 tool lying around than a $300 tool. If you do like detailing, I think it is easier to learn on a PC. IT is more forgiving and easier to control. Then if you decide you are a Geek afterall, then buy the Flex. Having more than 1 tool is a good thing for several reasons. I own 6 polishers. All of them get used in certain situations. Honestly, even though I own the Flex, I use my Griots 6 in the most. It is close to the 7424 XP in function (the argument between which is better, griots, PC 7424 or Meg G110 goes on and on and on.)

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I have heard Menzerna recommended to people around here many times. I guess I just never gave them any thought.. I was looking at their products, but there's so many different polishes. I'm not sure which ones to go for.

I do all my testing on black paint because black shows everything and anytime I'm going to do a comparison test between compounds or polishes I will first start with a flawless black finish and to get the paint flawless I've used either Wolfgang or Menzerna.

The reason I was going for the Flex was because I had read several threads on here where people had started with the PC, but regretted not buying a flex. Apparently the flex cuts the time detailing in half?

That's because with any of the PC style polishers, because the pad can stop spinning for a number of reasons, you cannot work as fast or tackle large sections at a time.

The Flex is a direct drive or forced rotation and oscillation polisher, you cannot stop the pad from rotating no matter how hard you push on the polisher or no matter what the shape of the body panel.

Watch this video,

All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher
[video=youtube_share;EAmojb8XIuk&hd=1"]All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual...[/video]​

I simply just didn't want to buy the PC and then in a few months time regret not buying the Flex to begin with.Is the Flex worth the extra money?

Like I said and I think other's have said, if you're just going to buff out your car the PC is enough, if you're going to buff out cars for some part time detailing business or you like the idea of purchasing and owning one of the best pro grade polishers on the market go for the Flex.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[Chase.Barnett]

Edit: Didn't see that we were on a 2nd page.

 

[Chase.Barnett]

I do all my testing on black paint because black shows everything and anytime I'm going to do a comparison test between compounds or polishes I will first start with a flawless black finish and to get the paint flawless I've used either Wolfgang or Menzerna.



That's because with any of the PC style polishers, because the pad can stop spinning for a number of reasons, you cannot work as fast or tackle large sections at a time.

The Flex is a direct drive or forced rotation and oscillation polisher, you cannot stop the pad from rotating no matter how hard you push on the polisher or no matter what the shape of the body panel.

Watch this video,

All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher
All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual...​

Like I said and I think other's have said, if you're just going to buff out your car the PC is enough, if you're going to buff out cars for some part time detailing business or you like the idea of purchasing and owning one of the best pro grade polishers on the market go for the Flex.


:xyxthumbs:

Mike, thanks for all the advice and pointers. I might pick up the PC instead so I can pick up some extra goodies!

Now I just just need to narrow down the product to use. Which Menzerna polishes/glazes would you go for if you were me?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Wolfgang Twins never let anyone down, the combo guarantees success no matter what you're working on...

The Wolfgang Twins


Occasionally I get a Private Message asking what the Wolfgang Twins are so this is a simple thread that shows the products with link to their pages on the Autogeek.net store.


The Wolfgang Twins
Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0 16 oz
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze 3.0 16 oz

In simple terms...

The Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover is medium strength swirl mark remover that will tackle a majority of the cars that most people reading this will ever tackle.

The Wolfgang Finishing Glaze is a very light finishing polish that will refine the results created by the Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and leave a clear, haze-free finish.


For most projects you would,

Step 1 - Wash and dry car

Step 2 - Inspect paint for above surface bonded contaminants
If discovered, use detailing clay to remove the contaminants, see this article.

Step 3 - Remover Swirls
At this step you would use the Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover

Step 4 - Polish to a high gloss
At this step you would use the Finishing Glaze

Step 5 - Seal and protect paint
At this step you would apply your LSP or Last Step Product, this could be a wax or a paint sealant. A popular choice that keeps you in the Wolfgang family would be to follow the Finishing Glaze with Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0

Then if you want you can top the WDGPS with Wolfgang Fuzion.
​

This car had the above process used over the for a swirl free, show car finish.

1994 Porsche Detailed for "Operation Comfort" Modeled by Brittany from Stuart, Florida

Anyone can get show car results the first time!
This black Porsche was also buffed out using the Wolfgang Twins followed by Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant and Fuzion.

Proof You Can Do It! - Joe The Detailer - Black Porsche Turned into Black Pearl!

Any paint system, any car...
Here's an example of one of our forum members removing rotary buffers swirls using the Wolfgang Twins on his 350Z


How To Remove Horrible Rotary Buffer Swirl Marks out of a 350Z using the Wolfgang Twins


Before - Rotary Buffer Swirls Everywhere in the paint

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2 and weights %3.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2 and weights %3.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2 and weights %3.

After - A 100% Swirl Free Finish

Wolfgang Paint Correction and Finishing System

Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0 16 oz
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze 3.0 16 oz
Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0
Wolfgang Fuzion


Together with any of the DA Polishers and foam buffing pads Autogeek offers anyone can get show car results in their garage!


Take care of your own cars or detail your friends and neighbor's cars and you new detailing hobby will pay for itself.






I'm partial to the SI 1500 and the SF4000 in the Menzerna line, for most people this two punch approach will tackle anything that pulls into your driveway.


Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers


Menzerna has introduced all new labels and product names for identifying their products. I know it's easy to stick with what you know and change can be hard but the new product names and identifying numbers are here to stay so might as well make the switch when talking and typing about them..

PG 1000 – PowerGloss Compound (S34A)


SI 1500 – Super Intensive Polish (PO83)


IP 2000 – Intensive Polish (PO91E)


PF 2500 – Power Finish Polish (PO203)


FF 3000 – Final Finish Polish (PO85U)


SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)


SF 4500 – Super Finish Polish (PO85RD)


Menzerna Power Lock Polymer Paint Sealant

​

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Chase.Barnett]

Awesome write up Mike, many many thanks!

I had been looking at Klasse due to the durability of it. I'm in Houston, so the Humidity and UV levels are less than favorable, and we typically sit over 105+ for several months of the year. I've heard that Klasse can last up to 12 months.

Thoughts?

 

[Amopower]

The Flex 3401 is also very safe too and for working on small cars a really good way to go would be with the 4" backing plate and the new 5" foam pads.If you think you want to detail for money, the the Flex 3401 with the 4" backing plate and the 5" foam pads will enable you to work faster, completely safe and swirl-free.

I am going to get the Flex soon, but confused over the pads. It appears those 5" pads just came out, but I noticed they are not waffled or ribbed like newer designs. I thought the waffle/textured pads were supposedly better, but maybe that is not so?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Awesome write up Mike, many many thanks!

No problemo,

Just to note, most of what I posted is stuff I've already written, since I know where the info is it's easy to copy and paste it anywhere and all of it is available from my article list.

I had been looking at Klasse due to the durability of it. I'm in Houston, so the Humidity and UV levels are less than favorable, and we typically sit over 105+ for several months of the year.

I've heard that Klasse can last up to 12 months.

Thoughts?

Anything can last a year if you leave your car in the garage and never drive it. I would opt for something you can apply quickly and easily like a good spray on wax, check out page 2 of this article,

Beginning Clearcoat Failure

I am going to get the Flex soon, but confused over the pads. It appears those 5" pads just came out, but I noticed they are not waffled or ribbed like newer designs.

I thought the waffle/textured pads were supposedly better, but maybe that is not so?

The face design of a foam pad is the least of your worries, choosing GREAT abrasive technology for any correction work is top priority and then using good technique is second. If you get the first two right then you can get stellar results no matter what type of foam design you're using as long as you choose the right aggressiveness or NON-aggressiveness level for the pad.


For what it's worth, I love the new 5" Hybrid pads with the 4" adapter on the Flex 3401 and think they are the BEST pad for that tool hands down.


Here's an article on these new pads and a video to watch if you click the link...

New 5" pads for 4" Backing Plate on Flex 3401



5" Hybrid Pads for the 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401!

:xyxthumbs: