I used pinnacle ultrafine clay
The Pinnacle Ultrafine is about as fine or non-aggressive as you can get. If the clay and the claying process is in fact the root cause of the scratches or marring in the paint then this would be an indicator of paint that is on the soft side and ANY mechanical type of decontamination will likely scratch the paint.
Very few can clay an entire vehicles without inflicting some type of marring or fine scratches. It all depends on how careful you work, how much clay lube you use, grade of clay etc.
The above describes me. I've clayed cars and left scratches in the paint and I'm real careful. I don't think it's always a "person problem" I think the problem is that clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive, this means they scratch EASILY. Period.
And because the clear layer of paint is over the top of a colored layer of paint, the scratches show up EASY to your eyes. Except for light colors. With light colors the scratches are still there it's just you can't see them, at least not easily.
This is why white and silver metallic paint are best for people that don't care about the finish quality of their car and don't want to take up detailing as a hobby.
A simple polish once done claying, should remove the marring/scratches.
Exactly and to take this idea even further, at this stage of the game in life I personally won't use clay or Nanoskin products or ANYTHING on someone's paint unless I'm already planning on doing at least ONE MACHINE POLISHING STEP.
I recommend this practice to others. In fact I recommend this strongly to others and also state this in my how-to book
The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine and in my new how-to ibook book
How to use Detailing Clay.
Pinnacle ultra poly clay and the pinnacle clay lubricant
This is a good choice. You really can't get a better ultra fine grade clay. If you look through all of the write-ups for the show cars we detail here at Autogeek you'll see that for almost all of them we use this clay.
Like this little gem....
1939 Lincoln Zephyr - Swirls Removed - Modeled by Nicole
Frank had never clayed before, while he was here I autographed a copy of my
how-to book for him and showed him pages 42-47 that go over everything you need to know to correctly use detailing clay.
And if you click on the link I included above you'll see that we did machine polish the paint after we clayed the paint.
It's a good practice.
wow now i am afraid to clay bar my new Corvette . it is carbon blast color .
You shouldn't be afraid to touch your own car. You should get head knowledge however before you touch your car and that's what you're getting by being an active member of this forum.
Just approach car detailing as a
process and if after you feel the paint on your car and it has a texture of little bumps, then plan on claying AND machine polishing before sealing the paint.
wow, I just bought the same exact products (pinnacle ultra poly clay and pinnacle clay lubricant 16oz) and I was planning to clay my brand new BMW M3 when I stumbled on this thread !
Needless to say those pinnacle products will not be going anywhere close to my car now.
And that's your choice but again... the Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay is one of the highest quality ULTRA FINE grades of clay you can get. I'm not sure you can get anything finer and if you did it would be so fine that it would probably be ineffective.
The clay isn't really the problem it's the paint. See what I wrote about scratch-sensitive above.
If you do the Baggie Test and your paint is contaminated, then you need to clay the paint or somehow mechanically decontaminate it and from my own experience, any mechanical form of decontaminating paint is going to mar the scratch-sensitive paints that car manufactures, that includes BMW choose to use to coat over their cars body panels.
You can write a letter to BMW or Ford or any car manufacturer and ask them to start using paints that can be clayed without being scratched and lets hope you get a reply where they say "thank you", we didn't know we were putting paint on our cars that scratches easily, we'll change that starting today"
But I don't think that's going to happen. So you have to deal with the paint BMW give you and if it's contaminated with Above Surface Bonded Contaminants, that is contaminants that don't wash off due to the bond between them and your car's paint then you have two options.
Leave the contaminants on the car and wax over them.
Remove the contaminants using some mechanical means.
Your choice. I'm just hear to help you do the second one safely and that means in my experienced opinion to plan on doing at least one machine polishing step after you mechanically decontaminate paint. Even the simplest, easiest to learn how to use and master tool, the Porter Cable 7424XP with 5.5" thin pads and a quality polish will remove any claying induced marring and to be honest, it will in most cases maximize the gloss, clarity and smoothness of the paint more than if you don't machine polish.
Here's an article I wrote about the beneifts of claying, each person can make up their own mind...
Mike Phillips said:
The 4 primary benefits of using detailing clay to clay paint
Using detailing clay to clay your car's paint, or your customer's car's paint will,
1: Claying safely removes Above Surface Bonded Contaminants
2: Claying paint enable your choice of wax or paint sealant to better bond or adhere to the paint.
3: Claying paint restores a silky, smooth, clean surface.
4: Claying paint makes polishing easier, more effective and safer.
Lets take a little deeper look at these benefits...
1: Claying safely removes Above Surface Bonded Contaminants
Over time, if your car is parked outside for any length of time during each day then any dirt or air-borne contaminants that land on the paint will tend to bond to the paint if they are not removed in a timely manner. Once they bond to the paint some of them won't come off just from normal washing. This is where detailing clay comes into the picture.
Detailing clay uses
special abrasives that have the ability to basically
sand-off any contaminants
sitting on top of the surface without installing scratches into your car's paint at the same time. I
n the old days, people would use
coarse rubbing compounds to remove above surface bonded contaminants and while these types of products would work they would also,
- Instill scratches into the paint
- Remove perfectly good paint
That's two negative things you don't want to do your car's precious clear layer of paint.
2: Claying paint enable your choice of wax or paint sealant to better bond or adhere to the paint.
Claying paint restores a clean surface so a coating of wax or paint sealant can maximize the bond between the paint and the protection ingredients. This helps to insure the wax or paint sealant coating will last a long time and thus protect a long time, and this is something all people want out of their choice of car wax or paint sealant.
The number one question I hear people ask on the topic detailing usually goes like this,
"How long will brand X Car Wax last?"
And the technically correct answer is,
"It depends upon how well the surface is prepared to accept the wax"
You see, a good chemist will create a car wax or paint sealant formulation to bond or adhere to car
paint,
not a layer of dirt. When contaminants build-up over the surface they create a layer or film of gunk, a mixture of whatever is floating around in the air where you live and park your car. The protection ingredients cannot get to the paint until this layer of contaminants is first removed.
If above surface, air-borne contaminants are present on the paint when a wax or paint sealant is applied, the wax or paint sealant will not last very long because it won't be able to bond very well to the top coating of the actual paint itself.
3: Claying paint restores a silky, smooth, clean surface
I think we can all agree that a great looking paint job is a glossy looking paint job and
gloss comes from a smooth surface.
When air-borne contaminants build-up on your car's finish they create an irregular surface or
texture that feels rough or bumpy to the touch. This un-even, bumpy surface due to above surface bonded contaminants reduces gloss. Claying your car's paint will remove the contaminants, this restores a smooth surface and this in return restores a high gloss finish
If you're a detailer, claying restores smoothness and this shows up to your customer's eyes as gloss and makes for happy customers.
4: Claying paint makes polishing easier, more effective and safer
In the context of this section, when we say polishing, we mean abrading the paint to remove below surface defects and/or refine the existing finish to a higher level.
- By removing any above surface bonded contaminants first, you enable your polish and pad to immediately go to work on the paint with nothing on the surface in the way.
- You make the polishing action smoother as your polish and pad will move over the surface easier with less potential for hopping or grabbing.
- You reduce the potential for accidental marring of the paint during the buffing process since there are not contaminants that can come loose and become trapped between the pad and the paint.
The good news...
Using detailing clay to clay paint is fast and easy and for your time-investment it provides the best bang for the buck when doing production detailing. Your average customer bringing you a daily driver wants you to do the dirty work for them so they don't have to do it. They see value in paying you for your time and energy to clean and maintain their vehicle so their time is freed up for what they perceive to be a more valuable use of their time. This could be working at their job, spending time with their family or
fill-in-the-blank.
As a professional detailer, you want to do top-notch work while maximizing your profits and using detailing clay to clay your customer's car creates
dramatic end-results that your customer will notice and this will help you to retain their business while getting valuable referrals.
Claying gives your customer what they want even if they don't know what they want and the
big picture visual results are a clean, shiny car that resembles the car when they first bought it and this makes for a happy car owner and by extension... a happy customer.
The above three physical results are the primary benefits or values created by claying paint to remove above surface bonded contaminants.
I was not planning to polish my new car and certainly do not want having to polish as a result of clay marring. I am taking claying out of my plans for my new car now and I will wax directly after drying the car.
For some people this is the best option. Consider using a light chemcial cleaner/wax first to remove any road film so you don't simply seal the road film or other contaminants or other previosuly applied product onto the paint with a finishing wax, finishing sealant or coating.
Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film
I bet your car is already scratched and swirled from the dealership.
I also bet your car has contamination on it and it needs to be clayed.
It's normal to have to clay and polish a brand new car.
I agree. Just to note, Scott is a former student who has attended my
Detailing Boot Camp Class and is not only a very good detailer but a pretty good writer too...
Here's a BLACK 2012 Camaro Convertible and at the time we put it through our show car polishing process here at Autogeek it only had
2000 miles on it
Video & Pictures: 2012 Black Camaro Convertible - Blackfire Show Car Makeover!
And this is off a BRAND NEW CAR?
If you watched the Live Broadcast, you saw me clay most, not all but most of JUST the hood. Keep in mind this Camaro has only 2000 miles on it since purchased new. Look at all the brown crud that came off the hood using Blackfire Detailing Clay.
Where has this car been since rolling out of the assembly plant?
Anyone want to guess what the brown stuff is?
Here's an after shot, if you click the link I included above you can see the before pictures plus watch a LIVE BROADCAST with Todd Helme and I walking your through all the steps you need to do to take a trashed black Camaro and turn it into a true show car. (This will apply to any car, even a Hyundai)
Don't clay unless you plan on Polishing and waxing after as a general rule.
And or use an AIO product after.
Whatever the claying process might leave behind the polish and or AIO product will remove it.
As others have said on a new car....
There will be contaminates...... And you can bet money on it....
It will need to be clayed, polished and either a wax or sealant applied.
I agree. Just to note, for those that might know, an AIO is the same thing as a Cleaner/Wax. Differnent words, same type of product. Most "Consumer" retail waxes are cleaner/waxes. I explain why here,
The Difference Between a Cleaner/Wax and a Finishing Wax
Subtitle: How To Choose The Right Wax or Paint Sealant for your Detailing Project
Pinnacle stuff is very high quality. It's not the products.
It's likely the technique or the paint.
Thank you for your witness...
That's why I dumped clay - a nanoskin fine speedy prep towel and I've never marred anything since...
I see marring with any mechanical means of decontaminating paint, at some point, at some time in some place. It's really easy to see on black paint and if it's happening on a clear coated black finish it's happening on any clear coat finish it's just on lighter colored cars you're eyes can't see it.
At least this is my experience and I love the Nanoskin Autoscrub Towels and the Speedy Prep Towels. Both are great products.
My favorite way to deconaminate paint is using the Nanoskin Autoscrub pads on a Porter Cable. If you click this link you'll see I used this approach on the Ceramiclear finish Mercedes-Benz just last weekend and then did ONE MACHIEN POLISHING STEP afterwards.
Black Label Diamond Paint Coating on a 2012 Mercedes-Benz E350
Here are the products and processes used in order of listing...
Detailer's Waterless Autowash - Clean car body panels, glass and wheels.
Detailer's Universal Clay Lube with Nanoskin Autoscrub Medium Grade Pad on Porter Cable - Decontaminate paint to remove above surface bonded contaminants.
Rupes Duetto 12 and
Mini 12 with
Rupes Keramik Gloss Fine Cut Polish and
Rupes Yellow Foam Polishing Pads to remove any swirls, scratches, marring or other paint blemishes and create a perfectly smooth and clear surface to the Ceramiclear finish.
Pinnacle Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish - To gently remove any polishing oils or other substances that could potentially interfere with the bonding of the Black Label Diamond Paint Coating.
Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Paint Coating - To seal and protect the paint and create a slick, glassy crystal clear finish.
Pinnacle Black Label Glass Coating - Seal the glass and create a hydrophobic surface.
After picture
Like I said, I do not want to have to follow with polishing on a new car. Therefore I will not clay.
I have bought P2S concours carnauba wax.
The P21S is a "Finishing Wax" or a "Show Car Wax", this means it has no cleaners or any ingredients indended to clean or abrade the paint.
This is the perfect wax for paint that is clean, clear and smooth with no contaminants or embedded dirt or stains. If the paint is less than perfect, finishing waxes, or finishing sealants act to seal the dirt onto the paint.
The Baggie Test - How to inspect for above surface bonded contaminants
Why put sealant on the clearcoat ? I know artificial agents last longer than carnauba wax. But as long as I apply P2S wax regularly (every 4-5 weeks) I'd rather just keep it simple with just the wax.
I agree. While I like coatings, I work on a lot of streetrods, classics and muscle cars and these cars tend to be owned by older guys and I find with older guys the best approach if you want them to actively maintain the hard work done to their paitn is to set them up with a traditional Carnauba Paste Wax.
And in fact, most of my buddies and customers go on to do pretty good with a traditional Carnauba Paste Wax which is also a "Finishing Wax" or "Show Car Wax".
Here's a great example...
1970 440 Cuda - Part 2 - Show Car Prep
On display just a few weeks ago at the 26th Annual Mopars with Big Daddy Don Garlits Car Show.
And here's the man himself, Big Daddy Don Garlits handing Tommy a trophy that's about 2 FEET TALL for a first place win with his 1970 Cuda, paint polished to perfection at Autogeek.
Clearcoat is just clear paint..... Nothing more than that...
Exactly. In my how to book I do my best to explain this in the first chapter because so many people have been told by cars sales men and women that,
"This car has a clear coat! You never have to wax it!"
:laughing:
As I unfortunately found out on my black Porsche 911, yes clay can mar the paint. At the time, I was using the Meguiar's OTC clay.
I have since tried the Sonus clay and found no marring. It was between that and the Pinnacle and I found one review that said the Sonus was the most gentle clay so I went with that.
Thanks for your research, (getting head knowledge), and then adding to the discussion...
Good news, the marring should come out very easily with a fine finishing polish. If your paint is so soft that clay causes marring, you're a great candidate for a coating - that's what I did. There are great ones out there and they will all provide you with a level of scratch resistance greatest than your current clear.
More head knowledge on display...
See how it helps to be on a forum like this and self-educate? The information is here... you just need to get it into your Knower...
No such thing as an old thread... I can dig upu threads from at least 2002 on vBulletin discussion forum, (the year this software went commercial), and they all have information that is just as helpful and often times just as accurate today as when the info was posted.
I have an article on this topic...
Discussion Forums - A relatively "new" invention...
and OP probably had his answer already, but my first thought was "why clay a brand new truck"?
See the link I included above about the brand new Camaro and I can dig up even more write-ups showing brand new cars that need to be clayed.
Like the Live Broadcast we did last Thursday for a 2013 Dodge Charger with only 6000 miles on it...
Pictures: 2013 Dodge Charger - Black Label Diamond Paint Coating- New Rupes Polishers - Pictures & Video
Here you go...
Post #18
New Cars Need to be Clayed with Detailing Clay
Even though this car only had 6000 miles on it there were already bonded contaminants that we removed using Pinnacle Ultra Poly Detailing Clay.
Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay is an ultra fine grade clay and a good choice for new cars that only have light contamination.
:dblthumb2:
:doh:
rops: I don't know what the invoice on it was, but 7K below MSRP is pretty good IMO.
