Why do people use 5.5" pads?

pcw25

pcw25

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Today I decided to polish out the finger nail marks on my passenger door. I used an orange 6.5" cobra waffle weave pad and UC on my black Pilot. Absolutely no micro-marring at all. Flawless.

However, a couple weeks before I tried to polish out another scratch with a 5.5" white flat pad with the same polish and it just was too difficult to work with. If you press too hard (which does not take much at all) the pad will stop rotating completely. But if you let up on the pressure, it will just flop around on the paint. There is no in between. So I used an orange flat pad with the same polish....exact same thing.

I have the recommended backing plate for the 5.5" pads, but it still likes to hop around and drive me nuts. They just do not work.

So my question is to you, fellow AG users, why do you use the 5.5" pads on your orbital polisher?
 
Main reason is because they do spin faster. But they work a lot better on those smaller panels.

I don't notice what you are describing with how it is hard to find a sweet spot with the amount of pressure you apply when using 5.5 inch pads. But when I use 3 inch pads I notice that effect, it is a little tricky and does take practice to get it right.
 
rider9195 said:
I don't notice what you are describing with how it is hard to find a sweet spot with the amount of pressure you apply when using 5.5 inch pads. But when I use 3 inch pads I notice that effect, it is a little tricky and does take practice to get it right.
Click to expand...

I find it very difficult...don't know why. It seems like the 6.5" have more surface area to evenly disperse the weight of the machine. That's my guess. How big is your BP for your 5.5" pads?
 
pcw25 said:
However, a couple weeks before I tried to polish out another scratch with a 5.5" white flat pad with the same polish and it just was too difficult to work with. If you press too hard (which does not take much at all) the pad will stop rotating completely. But if you let up on the pressure, it will just flop around on the paint. There is no in between. So I used an orange flat pad with the same polish....exact same thing.

I have the recommended backing plate for the 5.5" pads, but it still likes to hop around and drive me nuts. They just do not work.

So my question is to you, fellow AG users, why do you use the 5.5" pads on your orbital polisher?
Click to expand...

Whether you realize it, you answered your own question...


Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces until downward force or pressure is applied. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.


The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction you’re really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2", 6 1/2" and 7" pad...........Size does matter!


  • Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²
  • Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²
  • Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²

There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving its overall performance.



Stick with 5 1/2" pads for removing surface defects and you be pleasantly surprised...:props:
 
pcw25 said:
I find it very difficult...don't know why. It seems like the 6.5" have more surface area to evenly disperse the weight of the machine. That's my guess. How big is your BP for your 5.5" pads?
Click to expand...

It's 4 7/8"
 
BobbyG said:
Whether you realize it, you answered your own question...


Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces until downward force or pressure is applied. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.


The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction you’re really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2", 6 1/2" and 7" pad...........Size does matter!


  • Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²
  • Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²
  • Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²

There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving its overall performance.



Stick with 5 1/2" pads for removing surface defects and you be pleasantly surprised...:props:
Click to expand...

Thanks for your very detailed response, BobbyG :xyxthumbs:
 
BobbyG said:
Whether you realize it, you answered your own question...


Pads & Friction

The size or surface area does not directly affect the frictional force between two surfaces until downward force or pressure is applied. Reducing the pad size will only improve the mechanical efficiency of the machine.


The motor of your polisher produces some amount of power. The larger the pad surface area the harder the motor must work. Now, most will say "it's only 1 extra inch", but when it comes to surface area and friction you’re really talking about an additional 10 square inches. Now take a look at the difference between the 5 1/2", 6 1/2" and 7" pad...........Size does matter!


  • Surface Area - 5 1/2 pad = 23.75 in²
  • Surface Area - 6 1/2 pad = 33.18 in²
  • Surface Area - 7 pad = 38.484 in²
There is a direct relationship between the pad surface area and the polishers ability to transfer adequate power to the pad improving its overall performance.


Stick with 5 1/2" pads for removing surface defects and you be pleasantly surprised...:props:
Click to expand...

Actually the info provided is incorrect. In order to calculate the 'surface area' of a buffing pad, which has very little purpose (only to get technical I think) considering the pad is a solid object and not a hollow cylinder, the surface area would change every time pressure is applied to the polisher; flattening of the pad. In order to calculate the surface area of a pad, you have to view the pad as a cylinder and then 3 things are need; the top and bottom circumferences and the thickness of the pad. Because a buffing pad is a solid object, one could get so technical as to argue that you shouldn't factor the 'surface area' without including the 'volume' of the pad. Some information is truly irrelevant and sometimes complicates things, especially when it's incorrect. However, I do agree that there is a relationship between a pad size/thickness and type of polisher being used that will determine how effective the 2 are at accomplishing the goal. There are no formulas nor extreme technical information needed to determine if a pad/polisher combo is adequate enough to perform the task other than taking your tools of choice and actually seeing if they produce the desired results.

Based on your results, its hard to even determine what pad thickness you used to get those results.

5.5"x7/8" pad Surface area formula = ​

2 x 3.14 x r x (r +h) ​

6.28 x 2.75 x (2.75 + .875)​

6.28 x 2.75 x (3.625)​

62.60"²​

The surface area for:

5.5 x 7/8" pad is 62.60"²
5.5 x 1" pad is 64.76"²
6.5 x 7/8" pad is 84.19"²
6.5 x 1" pad is 86.74"²
 
pcw25 said:
Today I decided to polish out the finger nail marks on my passenger door. I used an orange 6.5" cobra waffle weave pad and UC on my black Pilot. Absolutely no micro-marring at all. Flawless.

However, a couple weeks before I tried to polish out another scratch with a 5.5" white flat pad with the same polish and it just was too difficult to work with. If you press too hard (which does not take much at all) the pad will stop rotating completely. But if you let up on the pressure, it will just flop around on the paint. There is no in between. So I used an orange flat pad with the same polish....exact same thing.

I have the recommended backing plate for the 5.5" pads, but it still likes to hop around and drive me nuts. They just do not work.

So my question is to you, fellow AG users, why do you use the 5.5" pads on your orbital polisher?
Click to expand...

Orbital polisher?? Or did you mean a DA polisher? On a flat surface on speed 6 on my GG6, I can't stop it even with full pressure. Sure it'll spin slower but it doesn't stop. What kind of machine do you have?


Sent from my iPhone using AG Online
 
tlinder1 said:
Actually the info provided is incorrect. In order to calculate the 'surface area' of a buffing pad, which has very little purpose (only to get technical I think) considering the pad is a solid object and not a hollow cylinder, the surface area would change every time pressure is applied to the polisher; flattening of the pad. In order to calculate the surface area of a pad, you have to view the pad as a cylinder and then 3 things are need; the top and bottom circumferences and the thickness of the pad. Because a buffing pad is a solid object, one could get so technical as to argue that you shouldn't factor the 'surface area' without including the 'volume' of the pad. Some information is truly irrelevant and sometimes complicates things, especially when it's incorrect. However, I do agree that there is a relationship between a pad size/thickness and type of polisher being used that will determine how effective the 2 are at accomplishing the goal. There are no formulas nor extreme technical information needed to determine if a pad/polisher combo is adequate enough to perform the task other than taking your tools of choice and actually seeing if they produce the desired results.

Based on your results, its hard to even determine what pad thickness you used to get those results.

5.5"x7/8" pad Surface area formula = ​

2 x 3.14 x r x (r +h) ​

6.28 x 2.75 x (2.75 + .875)​

6.28 x 2.75 x (3.625)​

62.60"²​

The surface area for:

5.5 x 7/8" pad is 62.60"²
5.5 x 1" pad is 64.76"²
6.5 x 7/8" pad is 84.19"²
6.5 x 1" pad is 86.74"²
Click to expand...



Why would you include the volume of the pad???? Are you using anything other that the face of the pad to polish???? I don't know about you but I have never used the center core of the pad to buff my car, only the face.
 
tlinder1 said:
Actually the info provided is incorrect. In order to calculate the 'surface area' of a buffing pad, which has very little purpose (only to get technical I think) considering the pad is a solid object and not a hollow cylinder, the surface area would change every time pressure is applied to the polisher; flattening of the pad. In order to calculate the surface area of a pad, you have to view the pad as a cylinder and then 3 things are need; the top and bottom circumferences and the thickness of the pad. Because a buffing pad is a solid object, one could get so technical as to argue that you shouldn't factor the 'surface area' without including the 'volume' of the pad. Some information is truly irrelevant and sometimes complicates things, especially when it's incorrect. However, I do agree that there is a relationship between a pad size/thickness and type of polisher being used that will determine how effective the 2 are at accomplishing the goal. There are no formulas nor extreme technical information needed to determine if a pad/polisher combo is adequate enough to perform the task other than taking your tools of choice and actually seeing if they produce the desired results.

Based on your results, its hard to even determine what pad thickness you used to get those results.

5.5"x7/8" pad Surface area formula = ​

2 x 3.14 x r x (r +h) ​

6.28 x 2.75 x (2.75 + .875)​

6.28 x 2.75 x (3.625)​

62.60"²​

The surface area for:

5.5 x 7/8" pad is 62.60"²
5.5 x 1" pad is 64.76"²
6.5 x 7/8" pad is 84.19"²
6.5 x 1" pad is 86.74"²
Click to expand...

We are not doing a math problem to calculate the surface area of the entire pad. We are only looking at the face of the pad that touches the paint. So no, BobbyG is correct :xyxthumbs: And when you flatten the pad with pressure, the pad does not bulge outward, so the face of the pad stays the same size :)
 
ihaveacamaro said:
We are not doing a math problem to calculate the surface area of the entire pad. We are only looking at the face of the pad that touches the paint. So no, BobbyG is correct :xyxthumbs: And when you flatten the pad with pressure, the pad does not bulge outward, so the face of the pad stays the same size :)
Click to expand...


I very well understand this is not a math problem and again, he is 'not' correct because if you are referring to surface area, its just that, the 'Entire' area based on the formula to calculate the surface area. I understand if you don't get it. Doesn't really surprise me seeing guys often go into technical detail to only reveal they don't really know what they're talking about. Happens quite often. If you say he's right, forward me the formula used to get his suggested surface areas if you don't mind. Otherwise, only stating your opinion, and math can surely dismiss that with no problem. Lateral surface area' may actually be what he was meaning to provide info on and not just as surface area if you want to get so technical, which is what I was wondering why would that even be necessary. Also as I said, no one researches the surface area of a pad along with the power of the polisher to determine if that combo will perform. Sometimes unecessary info only complicates matters.
 
TroyScherer said:
Why would you include the volume of the pad???? Are you using anything other that the face of the pad to polish???? I don't know about you but I have never used the center core of the pad to buff my car, only the face.
Click to expand...

Apparently you didn't read my post. I never said you had to include volume of a pad. It was a suggestion (sarcasm) based on being so technical with surface area. I've never heard of anyone wanting to know the surface area of a pad to determine if it was suitable for their needs or if a polisher would produce desirable results using surface area info. Do yourself a favor and research surface area to really understand what is means. But who am I...... Maybe a math major????
 
I agree. There is something to be said by saying that. In the fact that it has been said I think says it all. Now, that being said, it can't be understood as explained. The point of explanation will only fall on them who find explaining as something to be done instead of some thing to be said. Not to be 'outdone' or 'outsaid' pretty much says it all. As in all cases just saying that quantifies all of it as something that finds itself being explained as 'not to be explained', thusly 'not to be said'.
But once said by 'whom' becomes a paradox of 'who' said it.
And we all know that 'who's' on first.
 
Did someone forget to read the part where I said to calm down and take a deep breath?
 
Flash Gordon said:
Did someone forget to read the part where I said to calm down and take a deep breath?
Click to expand...

:xyxthumbs: Flash, I most definitelty read it and am abiding by it but sometimes info passed along on this forum isn't always accurate. But anyway, I'm moving on....:nomore:
 
tlinder1 said:
Apparently you didn't read my post. I never said you had to include volume of a pad. It was a suggestion (sarcasm) based on being so technical with surface area. I've never heard of anyone wanting to know the surface area of a pad to determine if it was suitable for their needs or if a polisher would produce desirable results using surface area info. Do yourself a favor and research surface area to really understand what is means. But who am I...... Maybe a math major????
Click to expand...

Oh....

I read it just didn't see the point in doing all the math and posting pointless info to confuse people.



I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night does that count?!?!? All is good. :)
 
tlinder1 said:
Apparently you didn't read my post. I never said you had to include volume of a pad. It was a suggestion (sarcasm) based on being so technical with surface area. I've never heard of anyone wanting to know the surface area of a pad to determine if it was suitable for their needs or if a polisher would produce desirable results using surface area info. Do yourself a favor and research surface area to really understand what is means. But who am I...... Maybe a math major????
Click to expand...

Well we can all tell by you low post count an hostility when posting that your immature and always trying to one up everyone else. You can probably just be quiet because I can garuantee you that no one here is going to take your word over bobbyg's. Furthermore why would you want to know the area of the top and sides of the pad when buffing? What bobby said had revalence to the post, he said in essence the bigger the face of the pad the more friction it will have making it harder on the da to oscillate an spin. But thanks for your useless post. :xyxthumbs:
 
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