Swirl Mark removal

[Mr M5]

I'm looking for advise on removing some swirl marks from a bmw m5 that is Lemans Blue. The swirls are very light in nature not visible from a distance to a normal person but visible under spot lights in the garage.

I have a porter cable DA that I have tried using with a CCS orange pad and Pinacle Swirl remover but to no avail. The swirls have been there for years and I've had no luck getting rid of them.

I'm not sure if I need to use a more aggressive pad, more agressive swirl remover or both or just something else all together.

This this I do want to add, that the car was in an accident years ago and the door panel has visible (to me but not most) body work showing through where they patched and blended the paint so any suggestions on that too is also welcome.

Please let me know if you need more information and I'll provide what I can.

Thanks for all your help in advance.

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Hey welcome to AGO Mr M5. What chassis is the M5? e60?

The pad you have is pretty darn aggressive. You might want to try a heavier compound to get what you want from the correction. See about getting the M105/M205 twins. That is a great place to start. Also be sure that you are prepping the pad and applying working product rather than just squeezing the product onto the pad. You should be at speed 5 or so for the correction step.

As for the door there is nothing that can be done other than find another body shop to redo the door. The damge that you see is below the clear coat.

See below what is possible with the Meguiars twins.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ryred-s-corvette-meets-mikes-detail-shop.html

 

[Mr M5]

E39 (2003) I've owned it since new and have done all but one of detailing on it, the one after the accident. I've tried a few speeds 5 and 6 and even on down to 1 just to see.

That was my guess on the door. Just thought I'd ask.

Hey welcome to AGO Mr M5. What chassis is the M5? e60?

The pad you have is pretty darn aggressive. You might want to try a heavier compound to get what you want from the correction. See about getting the M105/M205 twins. That is a great place to start. Also be sure that you are prepping the pad and applying working product rather than just squeezing the product onto the pad. You should be at speed 5 or so for the correction step.

As for the door there is nothing that can be done other than find another body shop to redo the door. The damge that you see is below the clear coat.

See below what is possible with the Meguiars twins.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ryred-s-corvette-meets-mikes-detail-shop.html

 

[swanicyouth]

You don't need to purchase one more single thing. You need to work on your technique. I've been in the same spot as you and thought my polish was not right, my machine was broken, my paint was different than everyone else, etc...

Work cleaner, on a smaller area, with slower arm speed and more pressure. Watch videos of others. Practice until you get it right. Work on a test portion until you get it. What you have is more than enough to remove light swirls.

One other thing... And this is very very important: be very careful how much polish you use. Less is actually better. If you use too much you actually DECREASING the ability of the polish to remove defects. As, you need the right amount of pad and polish rotating on the surface.

I know when you are new it's easy to think you need more polish to get more results. Watch the Junkmans videos on you tube: Polishing for Novices, its pretty good and he goes into just how much polish you need to use and why.

 

[Evan.J]

:iagree: Seems like your technique needs to be zeroed in. You have all the right produces to get the job done. Make sure your cleaning you pads often. You never want to over saturate your pad. If you see product on the back side then you are using too much.

 

[Mr M5]

What is it about my technique that needs changed?

 

[us6krums]

What is it about my technique that needs changed?

I am in the same boat. I have a PC 7424 and Opti Compound II with an orange foam cutting pad. Although I was able to remove most scratches and marks on my Tacoma, I am having a hard time getting some scratches out of my 2005 Acura. Also, due to years of neglect, the hood is covered with water droplet etchings. I have tried following all the instructions, including those listed above, and while some are disappearing, there are still a bunch left.

I am just working a sq ft of section of the hood. Seems like when I add more pressure, the DA stops spinning. If I add more product, it seems to gum up the pad. If the DA is on 5, there doesn't seem to be any product left behind, but if I crank it to 6, it puts out a heavy film of product...don't know which I am supposed to have.

Seems like I run out of product before the 6 section passes...this is after prepping the pad and then adding the working product. Maybe I'll try and video tomorrow. All I know is that it seems to be taking a long time, I am on my 3rd attempt of this one square. I knew I was in for some work after neglecting it all these years, but hoping someone can give some pointers. What should the pad look like after making the 6 passes?

 

[Evan.J]

What is it about my technique that needs changed?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html

Here is a trouble shooting guide if you haven't looked at it already. The reason I suggest your technique may not be right is due to the fact that you arent getting the results you are expecting and you have all the right tools for the job.

Would you be able to post a picture of whaty you working on? While its not as good as being there to physical look at it, the picture will help determine what you have.

 

[RoadRageDetail]

This is why pictures would help with a diagnosis.

I've worked on a very similarly colored M6 and found the "light swirls" were fairly tricky to remove.

In all honesty, I don't think Pinnacle's swirl remover carries enough weight to remove those defects. I could be wrong, but even by Pinnacle's own description of their product, I'd doubt it to be strong enough to help you very much.

Although the technique you're using could be the issue, I'd track down a bottle of Megs 205, which should be easy, and see if that gets you the finish you're looking for.

This is a quick 50/50 I did with my cell phone, results were achieved with two passes of 205 and a white CCS pad on my Flex.

205 is easy to work with, and it should play nice with your orange pad, but it may leave some fine hazing depending on how you use it. That Pinnacle swirl remover would finish the job, no doubt.

 

[Mr M5]

2003 BMW M5 - Charlotte, NC owned by BlingBlingm2

That's what I'm working on. I should also say I have another car though a different color that I did get all the swirls or at least 90 percent out of it.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/37769-da-polisher-trouble-shooting-guide.html

Here is a trouble shooting guide if you haven't looked at it already. The reason I suggest your technique may not be right is due to the fact that you arent getting the results you are expecting and you have all the right tools for the job.

Would you be able to post a picture of whaty you working on? While its not as good as being there to physical look at it, the picture will help determine what you have.

 

[Mr M5]

That color is very different from mine

This is why pictures would help with a diagnosis.

I've worked on a very similarly colored M6 and found the "light swirls" were fairly tricky to remove.

In all honesty, I don't think Pinnacle's swirl remover carries enough weight to remove those defects. I could be wrong, but even by Pinnacle's own description of their product, I'd doubt it to be strong enough to help you very much.

Although the technique you're using could be the issue, I'd track down a bottle of Megs 205, which should be easy, and see if that gets you the finish you're looking for.

This is a quick 50/50 I did with my cell phone, results were achieved with two passes of 205 and a white CCS pad on my Flex.

205 is easy to work with, and it should play nice with your orange pad, but it may leave some fine hazing depending on how you use it. That Pinnacle swirl remover would finish the job, no doubt.

 

[Evan.J]

Do you have access to a more aggressive product to try? I'm not sure how aggressive Pinnacles swirl remover is. Maybe you can try some Meg's Ultimate Compound its very similar to M105 in the aggressiveness.
You have tried adding more pressure slowing arm speed and shrinking you work area?

 

[RoadRageDetail]

That color is very different from mine

Yes sir I'm aware, since it is the hood of a black 2008 GMC Yukon. That was an example to show you what 205 can do by itself.

These photos of the M6 are from years ago, before I had Meguiars in my product line but I was able to tackle these swirls with a two step polish.

Do you have access to a more aggressive product to try? I'm not sure how aggressive Pinnacles swirl remover is. Maybe you can try some Meg's Ultimate Compound its very similar to M105 in the aggressiveness.

This is not the next step that should be taken IMO. If the swirl remover isn't working, a mild polish like Megs 205 or Menzerna P085RD or something similar should be tried. Moving from a swirl remover to a compound is like going from a garden rake to a bulldozer.

 

[us6krums]

OK, here's my work this am on the Acura. Please let me know if there is something wrong with my technique. I'd also like to know if the Optimum Compound is being applied correctly and when using 6 on the PC, you should be getting the white trail of product. When on 5, I don't get that. I pressed as hard as the DA would let me.

Acura Detail | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[Mr M5]

That looks much improved for sure.

Yes sir I'm aware, since it is the hood of a black 2008 GMC Yukon. That was an example to show you what 205 can do by itself.

These photos of the M6 are from years ago, before I had Meguiars in my product line but I was able to tackle these swirls with a two step polish.

This is not the next step that should be taken IMO. If the swirl remover isn't working, a mild polish like Megs 205 or Menzerna P085RD or something similar should be tried. Moving from a swirl remover to a compound is like going from a garden rake to a bulldozer.

 

[Evan.J]

Hahaha so I see I have jumped the gun on the UC. (worked midnight so was still on the tired side) As road rage pointed out M205 or Ultimate polish or some mild polish should be the next step to try.

 

[us6krums]

As you can see I am getting nowhere near the same results with the Optimum Compound. I know my paint was bad, and I am willing to put in the work, just want to make sure I have all the right tools and the right technique.

I have a question on the pad. I have a 5" backing plate. This pad is 7". Seems like even I push down, the edges don't get that force and as a result, my pad is getting indented.

Also, with 6 on the speed, I find I really can't push down after about 2 section passes as the DA stops rotating. Not sure if this is because the compound is getting tacky (using too much) or I don't have enough on. I've tried multiple ways. At speed 5, it seems to rotate better.

This compound really seems to spit out a lot of product dust. My car is covered in it after doing a small section pass. I never saw this happening in Mike's videos.

Thanks for the input.Feed back please

 

[dpk20x]

You need smaller pads. Try using 5 1/2" pads as that 7" is way too big to be effective on your PC.

Once you do that you might find out you don't need the optimum compound. I just did my Grand Cherokee recently using mainly optimum polish II. It's a 10 year old vehicle but it only had light swirling. I did a cutting pass with a cyan pad and then finished up with a tangerine pad.

 

[us6krums]

I was afraid of that. I guess they are 6.5", came with the kit I ordered...but seems that the edges lift up, especially at the higher speed and this sends the product flying I think.

 

[dpk20x]

Yeah I think you want your backing plate to be slightly smaller than your pad so that the force is applied to the entire pad. That extra inch or so hanging off the backing plate likely isn't doing any correction.

So that 5" backing plate will be perfect for 5 1/2" pads. I would recommend picking up some hydrotech pads. They are super newbie friendly.