Old school guy needs help!

MarkD51

MarkD51

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OK folks, I need your good advice.

I've got a very clean 1997 Tahoe LT (in my avatar) that has an original 39K on the odometer. I'm the original owner.

Been a Collinite guy for 15 years, and have used a variety of waxes-sealants on this truck, like Zaino, Collinite, Meggy's #20, the vehicle has been clayed, and glazed (3M Hand Glaze) a couple times in the past, paint is smooth, and very nice considering it's the original paint.

I'm noticing a slight lack of lustrous high "new car" shine gloss on the paint. Although the paint looks clean, deep, superbly kept, considering 6 chicago winters, and the last 10 in the NM Desert Sun, and heat, I would like to perhaps strip the paint, and start again somehow, with some added gloss, and shine, without damaging the paint, or removing any precious paint that's left in the process.

I got some fresh Clay Bars sitting around, but I wish to know what cleaner-polish product should I be looking at to enhance gloss, and beauty of my paint, which is white clear coat.

I was thinking of a simple clay bar again after a good wash, and perhaps to use something like Pinnacle Paint Scrubber? (Is that what it's called?)

I'm old school, and am thinking of the "old" rigamarole of pulling out buffer, and glaze, but will this be the best way, that I might be removing-damaging more of the precious paint in the process?

I'm thinking of something that has absolutely no abrasives, but will enhance shine-high gloss, and bring the paint back to an earlier age without a downside removal of precious clear coat.
 
Clay first and use Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and seal with Collinite. To get a real nice gloss, you will need to polish. Being white you maybe better off doing just the paint cleaner and wax.
 
Rsurfer said:
Clay first and use Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and seal with Collinite. To get a real nice gloss, you will need to polish. Being white you maybe better off doing just the paint cleaner and wax.
Click to expand...

The product you mention, is the product I was considering using. Sorry, that my brain has been quite overloaded with the vast reading I have done through this forum's archives over the past month.

I am well aware of the camp of "do the least amount of harm" to achieve the desired results. Meaning as you folks well know, to use the least agressive methods, and products to achieve those final results.

As I said, I'm old school, I don;t have one of the new kid on the block Porter Cable 7424XP machine, but do have a perfect Milwaukee Variable Speed Polisher.

Weighs a ton of course, but is mint, and has the Velcro Backing Plate, and have a number of Meggys, and 3M Waffle Foam Pads. I do know how to use machine Glazes quite well, have a good bit of experience under my belt using such, but I would prefer to stay away from such, unless there's no other way, to attain high gloss, without resorting to a mahcine, and some sort of cleanser, or very mild polish.

I'm also the type of person who's not afraid of costs.

I've been kicling around the thought of buying a Porter Cable Machine, some Lake County Pads, and the varied assortment of first class Pinnacle, Wolfgang, Menzerna, etc products if needed.

My thoughts are "better to do the job the right, and correct way first time out", rather than go down a myriad of wrong avenues to attain results the "hard" way.

I'm gathering the Pinacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion can be used either by hand, or machine? By hand of course may be much gentler, but I'm also considering, and worrying about the fact that optimum high gloss might not be achieved by hand? Thanks again, Mark
 
Why not figure out what you need in steps?

Go to the local auto store and get a good cleaner/wax and some microfiber applicator pads. I am thinking Duragloss, Mothers or Meguiars products in that order if at all possible.

On a "test panel", do a 50/50 test. Put some tape down the middle of a panel and on one side, wash and clay the test side and then apply the cleaner/wax by hand using the microfiber pads. See if you get the gloss you desire. If not satisfied, get some Meguiars Ultimate Compound and apply that by hand. If you go this far, then the cleaner/wax is factored out of the full process you will apply to the whole car and you will need to perform a correction pass using UC or a stronger polish.

At this point posting pics would help get you some more guidance. The cost for the above is negligible.

In terms of polishing and LSP products, my vote for your Tahoe is Duragloss for correction and Optimum Car Wax for your LSP. OCW has the UV inhibitors and that will help maintain your new gloss.
 
MarkD51 said:
View attachment 13999

View attachment 14000Here's maybe a better pic of my ride. Mark

PS: White is an SOB to show quality of paint in a pic Right lighting is certainly needed.
Click to expand...

Nice ride Mark. Yes you can do the paint cleaner by hand. Your PS is absolutely true. Even with the right lighting, white, silver and light colors are hard to show gloss, but at the same time, hides marring very well.
 
Thank you all for your help.

I have considered, and thought hard of some certain "facts".

I've owned many beautiful cars in my years, a '67 White Stingray, a '68 SS396 Camaro in Lemans Blue, a mint "66 T-Bird Town Coupe as some, and some newer rides, before I got the Tahoe, a new 94 Lincoln Town Car in all Black (God, I don't think I'll ever buy another black ride in this lifetime! LOL)

I've thought of the fact, that back in 1997, Chevrolet wasn't exactly throwing Bentley, and Porsche Carrera Paintjobs on these trucks, that I will no doubt never be able to achieve such concours high quality with such paint applications on this vehicle. It is what it is, nothing less, and nothing more. So that is something to consider I reckon.

Quite a few of these trucks I seen when I was in the market to purchase-order, and so many had the most horrid, orange peeled paint that has come from GM in the last 40 years. Those "taxicab" Impala SS's were not much better it seems in many cases, as I once looked at a few, but backed away.

But, I'm thinking I may possibly have a build up of too many old products on my paint, and need to get back down to bare clean paint, that a clay bar properly used won't hurt again.

That a paint cleanser should remove old products, that I can start fresh.

I've been using Collinite products like Double Coat, and Insulator Wax probably long before this forum was created. I'm old, and cratchety enough, that I do remember using products such as the original Blue Coral ('67 Vette)

The other consideration is that father time takes its toll no matter what. That to possess new looking paint, then maybe it's a trip to the paint shop? LOL Mark
 
If you're proficient with your Milwaukee, why not use that? If you have soft (finishing) pads for it, and they are more like 5 or 6" rather than 7 or 8", you can go at it at low RPM with the Pinnacle paint cleaner.

Or get yourself a smaller backing plate and some new pads, with a soft black or red finishing pad of small diameter and low RPM's with a paint cleaner like that you won't be taking any measurable clear off.
 
MarkD51 said:
I am well aware of the camp of "do the least amount of harm" to achieve the desired results. Meaning as you folks well know, to use the least agressive methods, and products to achieve those final results.

As I said, I'm old school, I don;t have one of the new kid on the block Porter Cable 7424XP machine, but do have a perfect Milwaukee Variable Speed Polisher.

...but I would prefer to stay away from such, unless there's no other way, to attain high gloss, without resorting to a mahcine, and some sort of cleanser, or very mild polish.



I've been kicling around the thought of buying a Porter Cable Machine, some Lake County Pads, and the varied assortment of first class Pinnacle, Wolfgang, Menzerna, etc products if needed.

My thoughts are "better to do the job the right, and correct way first time out", rather than go down a myriad of wrong avenues to attain results the "hard" way.

I'm gathering the Pinacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion can be used either by hand, or machine? By hand of course may be much gentler, but I'm also considering, and worrying about the fact that optimum high gloss might not be achieved by hand? Thanks again, Mark
Click to expand...

Optimum PolySeal
Optimum 6.25" MF polishing pad @ 900-1000 rpm on the Milwaukee VSP
OOS
OCW

Simply the best, easiest, most productive solution to your issue, IMO.


High Mileage Neglected Daily Driver Resurrected

​

This was only PolySeal/OCW.

Last weekend, stripped, OPII, OFP/6.5 foam finishing pad jeweling, OOS, OCW. Will post write-up soon.
 
Last edited:
What's happened to the paint is age. Because of the climate the sun's had time to beat it up over the years and I suspect there's a good deal of oxidation that needs removing.

Since you're old school like me then the rotary will be ideal for now and I suggest you pick up some foam pads in the 6" variety. These pads make controlling the machine much easier then the larger one.

Basic steps in order are:

  • Wash
  • Clay
  • Paint Correction & Polish
  • Seal
  • Wax

A 1-step product might be the ideal product for you to use. Many of these products contain cleaners and mild abrasives specially designed for finishes like yours.

  • BlackFire Total Polish & Seal
  • Meguiar's D151
  • Duragloss 501
  • Optimum GPS
  • Poorboy's World Polish with Sealant

Use these with an Orange or While foam pad on a speed setting around 1200 - 1500 will produce amazing results. Once through apply a coat of Collinite 845 for maximum gloss and protection...
 
Just some facts I would like sharing with you wise folks here.

Although I've owned the Milwaukee VSP for probably 11-12 years, in truth I have never used such on my Tahoe. Other's vehicles, yes, mine no. So, with that said, no machine polishing or machine glazing has ever been done to the paint. (again, my thinking was do the least amount of harm)

Hand Glaze yes, such as 3M Perfect-It a couple times, 3M Imperial once, and during the vehicle's life had been clay barred (Zaino Clay) about 3-4 years ago.

While I know how to use th Milwaukee VSP, I actually hate the machine, it is huge, it is heavy, and akward, and I'm not really at all comfortable using this machine on my pride and joy. I think it would be wise purchasing the Porter Cable DA Polisher, and some good Lake County Pads. After seeing some vids of these machines in action, all I can say, is I like it! This is for me.

I gather that the DA Action of the Porter Cable 7424XP will be a much safer, and more forgiving method.

I do understand certain facts, that such a machine not only makes such jobs way easier to do, but also the fact that such machines will create a high gloss that is virtually unobtainable with any hand polishing method.

I'm certainly well aware that any incorrect methods, incorrect, and too agressive products and/or pads can have disastrous results to any paint, new, or in my case 15 years old.

My paint's never been neglected, always been kept well waxed-sealed, and as some friends would say, I was the type of guy who would wax his car in a thunderstorm. Within the past month, the vehicle has been waxed-detailed with Collinite Super DoubleCoat Paste, and Insulator Liquid Wax.

I'm not sure I'm willing to tackle this job, and expenditure this fall, because I'd like to go the entire 9 yards with a new Porter Cable, all the necessary Pinnacle Products, and required Pads. Perhaps I won't be able to do such before winter comes, but one smart thing I did two weeks ago, was bought a Covercraft NOAH Custom Fit Cover.

In retrospect, and as they say about hindsight, was something I should've bought years ago. Probably the wisest purchase I have made for this vehicle, since I only have a Carport here for the past 9 years.

Although the vehicle is somewhat shielded from the NM desert sun, and heat, I live about 4 miles east of the largest Gypsum Field in the world, White Sands National Monument, and Missle Range. Under high wind conditions, I have seen instances of literal "white outs" here, with less than 1 block visibility. NM is a quite windy state at times.

This Gypsum no doubt literally "sand blasts". a vehicle over time. This heat, and dust did take its toll on all my Plastic Headlamp and Tail Light Assemblies, which have all been recently replaced with all new Parts.
It's a big problem here, so many vehicles here have headlights that look like they've been sandblasted, and dipped in acid.

I'm thinking early next spring, order everything I need from the Auto Geek Folks, and in the meantime the NOAH Cover should protect my vehicle from any further sun, and dust damage?

Hope you folks haven't minded my ramblings-thoughts? Thank you again folks very much for your experienced help, and the time you have taken to respond to me about such. Mark
 
Your ramblings are cool Mark and from one old school guy to another, the more information the better....:props:

You'll discover that working with a dual action polisher is so easy even a caveman can do it! :laughing:.....Seriously Mark you won't believe how easy they are to use and almost impossible to damage the paint due to their design...

Mike Phillips wrote the book on these topics, literally, and offers some great articles all just a click away....

Articles by Mike Phillips

Claying

The Baggie Test - How to inspect for above surface bonded contaminants

The 3 primary benefits of using detailing clay to clay paint

Tips and Tricks for using detailing clay

Do I need to wash my car after I use detailing clay to clay the paint?

How often do I need to clay my car?

Video: How detailing clay works and how to use detailing clay to remove above surface bonded contaminants

New to Machine Polishing?

How To Do a Test Spot (and why it's so important)

Video: How to pick the right polisher

How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project

The Traditional Orbital Buffer aka The Wax Spreader


Dual Action Polishers

PC7424XP2.jpg


The Porter Cable 7424xp

Porter Cable 7424xp

Lake Country Backing Plate

Lake Country Flat Pads

Meguiar's DA Microfiber Correction Kit


Here's more great information by Mike Phillips that will help you if you need it.


Sectional Pass With a DA Polisher

Removing Swirls

DA Trouble Shooting Guide

Waxing With a DA Polisher

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher

DA Polisher Articles - Help for Newbies to Machine Polishing

How to MAXIMIZE your DA Polisher
 
View attachment 14008

Here's the Covercraft NOAH Cover on the Vehicle.
As I said earlier, this was some smart money spent, and regret not buying such a cover many years ago.

I'm so far very happy with this Cover. Mark

PS: Bobby, thank you so much for all the links! Later today I will study all of them, and will have such for future reference as well.
 
I understand your fears about removing precious paint, but a fine grade clay is really minimally to non-abrasive. So are paint cleaners like the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and similar cleaner. I think you'll be really happy if you get a PC or similar machine and clean it up. It will be very safe and people here work on paint that age all the time; yours will be fine since it's well maintained...usually cars that age are really hammered by the time someone takes a polisher to them.


MarkD51 said:
Although the vehicle is somewhat shielded from the NM desert sun, and heat, I live about 4 miles east of the largest Gypsum Field in the world, White Sands National Monument, and Missle Range. Under high wind conditions, I have seen instances of literal "white outs" here, with less than 1 block visibility. NM is a quite windy state at times.
Click to expand...

You know I thought I wanted to visit that area, but drywall and acoustic ceiling tiles (gypsum), rock wool (gypsum?) and concrete dust make me itch...if White Sands is a pile of gypsum dust I'd better skip it.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I understand your fears about removing precious paint, but a fine grade clay is really minimally to non-abrasive. So are paint cleaners like the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion and similar cleaner. I think you'll be really happy if you get a PC or similar machine and clean it up. It will be very safe and people here work on paint that age all the time; yours will be fine since it's well maintained...usually cars that age are really hammered by the time someone takes a polisher to them.




You know I thought I wanted to visit that area, but drywall and acoustic ceiling tiles (gypsum), rock wool (gypsum?) and concrete dust make me itch...if White Sands is a pile of gypsum dust I'd better skip it.
Click to expand...

There definitely is an "acclimation" period here, to get used to the dry climate, and dusty conditions. It took me awhile, and when I first moved here was appearing to have bouts with some sort of "sun rash" or such? It eventually subsided after a few months. Maybe it was the water too, when showering?

Your handle is interesting Setec? You an Astronomer? Amateur, or Professional?
I've been in the amateur hobby since 16. Am now 57.

About 5 years ago, I sold a mint Astro-Physics 1200GTO EQ Telescope Mount to a Lawyer from San Diego, who came here to pick up it up personally. He went though hell with nasal, and sinus problems the few days he was here, and swore he'd never step foot in NM again.

But it is a great area for Astronomy, with Cloudcroft NM just 16 miles away from me, with 9,000' altitude, and dark skies. Not far from Cloudcroft is NM Skies, and the Apache Point Sloan 3.5m Telescope, and a friend I know works there. Was a member of the local astro club for 5 years, but have taken a temporary break from the club. Mark
 
A smart idea occured to me moments ago.

We have a free local online classifieds here.

Place the Milwaukee Buffer, and all that comes with it up for sale to offset the cost of the new Porter Cable 7424XP, and all that it entails, with a larger Auto Geek Pinnacle-Lake County Package.

Perhaps a local Auto Body Shop, or another Deatiler-Detailing Business might take interest? I'm sure with the the new Auto Geek gear, I won't be looking back, and it seems to make little sense to then have both in my arsenal. Mark
 
From an older bird than you......I don't proclaim to be an expert but I see this as pretty simple. Drop the fears of removing a minuscule amount of clear and machine polish the car, it is past due. The PC is a good machine no doubt but I strongly suggest you also consider the Griot's polisher. It is considerably stronger than the PC and equally as safe, not to mention a lifetime warranty. In my opinion that lost luster that you wish to regain just won't happen with clay & paint cleaners alone.

Go here for some good shots of white vehicles:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/56194-best-reflection-shots-white-car.html

On page 5, post #47 is my ride. Good thread overall and it will give you some ideas on what is possible with white.
 
BobbyG said:
What's happened to the paint is age. Because of the climate the sun's had time to beat it up over the years and I suspect there's a good deal of oxidation that needs removing.

Since you're old school like me then the rotary will be ideal for now and I suggest you pick up some foam pads in the 6" variety. These pads make controlling the machine much easier then the larger one.

Basic steps in order are:

  • Wash
  • Clay
  • Paint Correction & Polish
  • Seal
  • Wax
A 1-step product might be the ideal product for you to use. Many of these products contain cleaners and mild abrasives specially designed for finishes like yours.

  • BlackFire Total Polish & Seal
  • Meguiar's D151
  • Duragloss 501
  • Optimum GPS
  • Poorboy's World Polish with Sealant
Use these with an Orange or While foam pad on a speed setting around 1200 - 1500 will produce amazing results. Once through apply a coat of Collinite 845 for maximum gloss and protection...
Click to expand...


ps use a pad washer or wash out your pads alot and dont put down to much product down at one time or pad will load up I sray water as I work to work wet more or less if you go dry with that old buffer you will do bad things at the comp step and with out a da to help out.the best thing to tell you is work slow and that you can always do more BUT cant put back words to live by lol
 
BobbyG,
As usual my friend, great post.:xyxthumbs:

Hi Mark,
Welcome to Autogeek Online. Our forum is a great place for sharing knowledge. Glad you can join us.

Since you're older...not knockin' that of course, I'll throw out another tip to speed up your claying process (I'm aware that you already own good clay). While you're buying some products, go ahead and step up to the new speedy prep towel AND get yourself a NanoSkin Autoscrub pad to go on your polisher. It'll make "claying" (without the clay) ten times faster for your old bones. LOL! Why not? It's really that simple. I just attended a get together in Evansville, Indiana where Mr. Phillips demonstrated these products and boy does it save time.

My last tip for you would be don't wait until spring to buy your products. Some of the best sales Autogeek has are coming up around Thanksgiving, Black Friday(day after Thanksgiving), and 12 days of Christmas...all tremendous savings, for sure. That's your best timing to buy things.
 
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