Did first buff for a dealer - any way to cut price down???

[dnoraker]

I've used D151 with the rotary and green LC on light colored cars without holograms (or they were filled). That really brought out a nice gloss to the finish. I love that stuff on white. I have experienced some very faint holograms on black that I could see right after application, but in that case it was an old truck that was about to be sold and it wasn't a problem. It still looked vastly better.

Because of the power and speed, I would probably use the rotary first, do a test spot and IPA wipedown and see if it's tolerable for a dealer lot. If not, grab the Griots DA.

I need to borrow more friends' vehicles to test.

 

[604_Snooze]

Have you try mixing the D151 with a little D300 or even Menz powerfinish to add a little cut?

 

[AutowerxDetailing]

Have you try mixing the D151 with a little D300 or even Menz powerfinish to add a little cut?

I just tried this the other day to fix some small scratches and marring around the fuel door of my wife's daily. In Oregon we aren't allowed to pump our own gas and the pump workers are super careless... anyway. Mixed some D300/D151 with a 4" LC MF @ speed 5 and it worked great. I didn't top it with anything because I want to see if it impacts D151's already weak durability. Rest of the car has a newish layer of 845 so I should be able to tell a difference right away.

Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online

 

[dnoraker]

I just tried this the other day to fix some small scratches and marring around the fuel door of my wife's daily. In Oregon we aren't allowed to pump our own gas and the pump workers are super careless... anyway. Mixed some D300/D151 with a 4" LC MF @ speed 5 and it worked great. I didn't top it with anything because I want to see if it impacts D151's already weak durability. Rest of the car has a newish layer of 845 so I should be able to tell a difference right away.

Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online

Not allowed to pump your own gas? That sucks! I suppose it cuts down on theft, but then they have to hire more employees. I haven't seen a full service station in MN in years.

Have you try mixing the D151 with a little D300 or even Menz powerfinish to add a little cut?

I'm going try some mixed products this week on a black Prius. That should expose its abilities pretty well. D151 with D300 is on the top of my list to try. I don't have any PF. I just have D300 and M105 for compounds. I have a ton of polishes- M205, Optimum polish and final polish, Menzerna 85u, 85rd, 106fa, and tomorrow will acquire Sonax Perfect Finish.

 

[RaskyR1]

Hey Dan. We talked about this briefly already but I'll share a little more info here.

When I did dealer work back in the 90's we used rotary polishers, wool finishing pads (think PFW) and a filler heavy polishes. Skip the clay! If there is heavy tar build up then just it with a solvent. On cars like this I would not worry about being hologram free as they simply won't pay for the amount of time it takes to do the job. They simply want the car to clean and shiny long enough to sell it. I'd probably try D151 with a PFW on the rotary and use a good filling or quick LSP....heck maybe just hit it with a mild compound and fly over it with D301 and MF finishing on the DA. We also didn't wipe off polish residue after a section either, let the D301 clean up the residue.

When I was doing high volume I'd do a complete car inside and out with motor in 2.5-4hrs....not work I was really proud of, but it paid the bills. I was getting $60 for cars and $95 for trucks, vans, and SUV's. This was in '96-'97 when I was still self employed doing cars for a few local car jockey's as well as Furlong and Dokmo motors in Northfield. Granted our shop was set up for volume work and not having water and a drain will add a bit of time to the job.

I also just talked to a few of my old jockey accounts that currently have used car lots in the area and they are all paying $120 for a complete detail on a car and $150-$175 for larger vehicles. Occasionally they will pay more for certain things. A couple said they are really slow right now too, which was typical this time of year. For a basic exterior expect to get around $60 in our area.

Hope this helps,
Rasky

 

[Meticulous-Detail]

I just tried this the other day to fix some small scratches and marring around the fuel door of my wife's daily. In Oregon we aren't allowed to pump our own gas and the pump workers are super careless... anyway. Mixed some D300/D151 with a 4" LC MF @ speed 5 and it worked great. I didn't top it with anything because I want to see if it impacts D151's already weak durability. Rest of the car has a newish layer of 845 so I should be able to tell a difference right away.

Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online

Have you tried letting D151 dry to a haze and then remove? It does last longer if you do, and Megs recommends it.

 

[dnoraker]

That helps a lot- thanks!

I didn't think about the PFW. If I hook up with this dealership again, I may try that. So, D151 by itself doesn't fill much?

The $100 job I did was a D300/301 combo, but I spent 2.75 hours on it. Probably 1.75 hours of that was the D300. I was thinking I could probably do the D300 in more like .75-1 hour and knock the price down to about $60-70 and still achieve some correction and no holograms. That's something I'm going to try on my test black Prius on Thursday. Maybe one heavier, slower pass and one lighter, quicker pass. Maybe I could even lay out sets of dots of product all over the car so I can just shut it off, grab the fresh product, and keep moving. Blow the pad out after every panel or two. This option seems the most risk-free and still achieve the correction they're hoping for. That MF system was basically designed for this kind of thing, right? I've adopted the D300 as my go-to compound because it's so easy to use and finishes down nice. I just adjust the buffing time for the defects involved. I do about 95% DD.

My concern with the solvent is the smell in the winter when I have to keep the garage all closed up. Heavy tar will need solvent anyway, I guess, but the speedy prep towel makes quick work of the light stuff.

 

[Dr_Pain]

Here is a non-product, business minded post.

The used car dealer is using your services to increase the value of the car (regardless if it is $50 or $500. There is no doubt about it. His point of view is: What can I do to the car to increase the P&E??. At this point he is not exactly thinking about you, right? So make him!

What are you offering that others won't:
1) Quality work
2) Reliability
3) Availability
4) Priority (you will offer to take his vehicles over others)
**which, from your OP, they had issues with from the prior detailer

You have to sell yourself, brother! I will be honest with you and tell you that the direction of your posts makes me cringe (as a customer more than a detailer). You are basically trying to undercut your own work to accommodate them. In the end, the only ones that lose will be the customer (getting subpar detailing job) and you, because ultimately your name will be associated with those "polished turds". Someone will find out who details those guys car, then your name will be tagged to any disgruntled customers looking for a reason to criticize. They may have nothing against the finish on the car and may only have issues with the mechanicals of the car, but I guarantee you that you will thrown in like the rest of them.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying your work is subpar (Saturn looks pretty dang good), but it is quite obvious from the way you originally treated it (without the pressure of staying on an unrealistic budget) that nothing less than what you did to the Saturn would have been your first choice.

Again, my approach would not be to be on the forum asking for advise on how to cut more corners, but would concentrate on selling your $100 detailing job.

If they are any kind of businessman, they will understand numbers. You can always present a breakdown of what it costs you to do a job (overheads, products etc...) but don't sell yourself short. You need to include the rent valuation in your overheads even though you are not renting from yourself. Reason being is if you are actionable in a liability case, they will go after your insurance, your "business" insurance (home) and any assets they can go after.

Side note: I am pretty sure that you are writing off on your income tax a portion of the sq.ft. of your garage for your business, aren't you? (if not that is pretty silly.... unless you are strictly under the table) So even though you are not "charging" yourself rent, you have to figure your cost "in case #### happens", because based on your taxes, your garage is associated with your business and owner/operator become liable.

Ultimately they will understand the numbers, but best is to sell your attributes (points listed above). It is always worth more to me to have a loyal, dedicated, available sub then to have a cheap one rops:

A few more thoughts to put in the pot.
1) You definitely need a sit down with them to see what exactly they want and see if you are willing to accept the level of work and the fact that your name will be associated with those car
2) You can approach a potential discount by explaining that you discounted your $125 to $100 in an attempt to get more business from them and will be glad to drop the prices to $90-$95 (for cars... not SUV or large trucks) if they allow you to put your business card in the glove box of each car you take care of. You make it cheaper for them and you get legit retailer advertisment Im the MAN

 

[RaskyR1]

Here is a non-product, business minded post.

The used car dealer is using your services to increase the value of the car (regardless if it is $50 or $500. There is no doubt about it. His point of view is: What can I do to the car to increase the P&E??. At this point he is not exactly thinking about you, right? So make him!

What are you offering that others won't:
1) Quality work
2) Reliability
3) Availability
4) Priority (you will offer to take his vehicles over others)
**which, from your OP, they had issues with from the prior detailer

You have to sell yourself, brother! I will be honest with you and tell you that the direction of your posts makes me cringe (as a customer more than a detailer). You are basically trying to undercut your own work to accommodate them. In the end, the only ones that lose will be the customer (getting subpar detailing job) and you, because ultimately your name will be associated with those "polished turds". Someone will find out who details those guys car, then your name will be tagged to any disgruntled customers looking for a reason to criticize. They may have nothing against the finish on the car and may only have issues with the mechanicals of the car, but I guarantee you that you will thrown in like the rest of them.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying your work is subpar (Saturn looks pretty dang good), but it is quite obvious from the way you originally treated it (without the pressure of staying on an unrealistic budget) that nothing less than what you did to the Saturn would have been your first choice.

Again, my approach would not be to be on the forum asking for advise on how to cut more corners, but would concentrate on selling your $100 detailing job.

If they are any kind of businessman, they will understand numbers. You can always present a breakdown of what it costs you to do a job (overheads, products etc...) but don't sell yourself short. You need to include the rent valuation in your overheads even though you are not renting from yourself. Reason being is if you are actionable in a liability case, they will go after your insurance, your "business" insurance (home) and any assets they can go after.

Side note: I am pretty sure that you are writing off on your income tax a portion of the sq.ft. of your garage for your business, aren't you? (if not that is pretty silly.... unless you are strictly under the table) So even though you are not "charging" yourself rent, you have to figure your cost "in case #### happens", because based on your taxes, your garage is associated with your business and owner/operator become liable.

Ultimately they will understand the numbers, but best is to sell your attributes (points listed above). It is always worth more to me to have a loyal, dedicated, available sub then to have a cheap one rops:

A few more thoughts to put in the pot.
1) You definitely need a sit down with them to see what exactly they want and see if you are willing to accept the level of work and the fact that your name will be associated with those car
2) You can approach a potential discount by explaining that you discounted your $125 to $100 in an attempt to get more business from them and will be glad to drop the prices to $90-$95 (for cars... not SUV or large trucks) if they allow you to put your business card in the glove box of each car you take care of. You make it cheaper for them and you get legit retailer advertisment Im the MAN

All very good info/advice, but having dealt with dozens of local dealers around here I can tell you that very few of them care what you have to say and they simply want the car done yesterday, look good enough to help sell, and all done at the lowest price possible. I've only run across a couple willing to pay extra for the job to be done right, usually only on special cars, and that's after years of working with them.



Dan, here is an example of one of the high volume dealers jobs I did back in '06 for Marty. I think I got $150 for this one and it took about 4hrs inside and out.


Before

After

 

[TXShineDetail]

Dnoraker,

Rasky took the words from my head. I have been in detailing nearly 10 years with only 2 dealer accounts for that reason exactly. I was charging a flat rate of $125/175 Fd+eng. took too much time some cars, but whatever. In the end, he would still go to the other guy charging less and returning wet carpet.

Don't sell yourself short, and don't deliver more than a DEALER is asking for. (Clean, shiny car with somewhat dry carpet.......)

Your work looks great! Perhaps invest into a Griots 6" and use the Meg's MF cutting discs and D300. Lean on it..... You would be surprised. The Griots is more powerful than PC 7424xl or whatever the newest one is.

Happy Detailing,
Nathan

 

[AutowerxDetailing]

Have you tried letting D151 dry to a haze and then remove? It does last longer if you do, and Megs recommends it.

Whenever I let it haze it is such a pain to remove... It doesn't come off like a normal wax. It feels more like when M105 dries on the paint. STUCK LIKE A DUCK. Because of that I normally remove D151 immediately after polishing. Maybe I am not letting it haze long enough?

 

[dnoraker]

Dnoraker,

Rasky took the words from my head. I have been in detailing nearly 10 years with only 2 dealer accounts for that reason exactly. I was charging a flat rate of $125/175 Fd+eng. took too much time some cars, but whatever. In the end, he would still go to the other guy charging less and returning wet carpet.

Don't sell yourself short, and don't deliver more than a DEALER is asking for. (Clean, shiny car with somewhat dry carpet.......)

Your work looks great! Perhaps invest into a Griots 6" and use the Meg's MF cutting discs and D300. Lean on it..... You would be surprised. The Griots is more powerful than PC 7424xl or whatever the newest one is.

Happy Detailing,
Nathan

Thanks, man. I actually mostly use a GG 5" for D300 and 5 or 6" for D301.

I'm not looking to do any interior work at this point for the dealers. And, not necessarily actively looking for dealer work in general. I'm just responding to a request from this specific dealer who saw my work online and thought I would be a better bet than the other guys he had dealt with. Unfortunately, his brother and co-owner isn't into dropping $100 on buffing. They do their own "detailing" generally, but don't like getting into buffing. I guess if they don't hire me back, they'll keep getting the same crappy work and maybe they'll come back to me. They aren't returning my phone calls at this point.

 

[dnoraker]

Here is a non-product, business minded post.

The used car dealer is using your services to increase the value of the car (regardless if it is $50 or $500. There is no doubt about it. His point of view is: What can I do to the car to increase the P&E??. At this point he is not exactly thinking about you, right? So make him!

What are you offering that others won't:
1) Quality work
2) Reliability
3) Availability
4) Priority (you will offer to take his vehicles over others)
**which, from your OP, they had issues with from the prior detailer

You have to sell yourself, brother! I will be honest with you and tell you that the direction of your posts makes me cringe (as a customer more than a detailer). You are basically trying to undercut your own work to accommodate them. In the end, the only ones that lose will be the customer (getting subpar detailing job) and you, because ultimately your name will be associated with those "polished turds". Someone will find out who details those guys car, then your name will be tagged to any disgruntled customers looking for a reason to criticize. They may have nothing against the finish on the car and may only have issues with the mechanicals of the car, but I guarantee you that you will thrown in like the rest of them.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying your work is subpar (Saturn looks pretty dang good), but it is quite obvious from the way you originally treated it (without the pressure of staying on an unrealistic budget) that nothing less than what you did to the Saturn would have been your first choice.

Again, my approach would not be to be on the forum asking for advise on how to cut more corners, but would concentrate on selling your $100 detailing job.

If they are any kind of businessman, they will understand numbers. You can always present a breakdown of what it costs you to do a job (overheads, products etc...) but don't sell yourself short. You need to include the rent valuation in your overheads even though you are not renting from yourself. Reason being is if you are actionable in a liability case, they will go after your insurance, your "business" insurance (home) and any assets they can go after.

Side note: I am pretty sure that you are writing off on your income tax a portion of the sq.ft. of your garage for your business, aren't you? (if not that is pretty silly.... unless you are strictly under the table) So even though you are not "charging" yourself rent, you have to figure your cost "in case #### happens", because based on your taxes, your garage is associated with your business and owner/operator become liable.

Ultimately they will understand the numbers, but best is to sell your attributes (points listed above). It is always worth more to me to have a loyal, dedicated, available sub then to have a cheap one rops:

A few more thoughts to put in the pot.
1) You definitely need a sit down with them to see what exactly they want and see if you are willing to accept the level of work and the fact that your name will be associated with those car
2) You can approach a potential discount by explaining that you discounted your $125 to $100 in an attempt to get more business from them and will be glad to drop the prices to $90-$95 (for cars... not SUV or large trucks) if they allow you to put your business card in the glove box of each car you take care of. You make it cheaper for them and you get legit retailer advertisment Im the MAN

I totally get what you're saying. I've had calls from dealers before where they've wanted this kind of work and I just didn't take it because I didn't want to tarnish my name. They wanted a full exterior job AND the paint buffed for under $100 and I nearly laughed out loud at them. In the warmer months of MN, I don't have a problem getting as much work as I want. I have another business that is about 85-90% of my income and the detailing business is a supplement. I don't really have time for much more work than I get.

In the winter, however, I get 1-2 cars per month. Sometimes none. I've kept my business insurance going in hopes that more work would come in and it never did. This year I've been throwing some crazy paint-only buffing deals out there. I finally got one call today, and I'm doing a couple relative's cars. When I got the call from this dealer, I saw it as an opportunity to get a little more work in to help pay some debt down. I have three kiddos and things are tight. The dealer specifically wanted swirl removal and was offering $50. I said I would do $120 (MF system) and he wouldn't do it over $100. It wasn't my usual retail work because I knew the car was about to get covered in salt and dirt on the way back to the dealership. I buffed it, waxed it, and wiped up after myself. Nothing sloppy, no damage, no wax in the cracks, etc. WAY better than what they had gotten before (burned paint, compound/wax in cracks). I was satisfied that they got what they wanted and then some, and I was paid as well as I normally am for my time and was proud of my work for where the car was going.

If I do ever hear back from them, and they don't agree to my terms, I may negotiate some kind of a kickback for buffing work if any of their buyers want that done. That way I can do it up to my normal retail standards and everyone wins.

Yes- I deduct the sq ft and utilities and such. Because of my other business being at home as well, I have mega-deductions every year. It's awesome.

Gotta run. I have a black Lexus in the garage that needs some love. This is one of my winter buffing specials. $120 for the D300/301 twins, paint-only. Hoping for 2.5-3 hours. :buffing:

 

[dnoraker]

I'm working on this Lexus, trying a few things that have been mentioned and I've come up with some conclusions. D301 looks like crap on this paint. It's hazed pretty bad with micro-marring. D300 followed with D151 on the rotary and an LC green pad at least is dark and has a nice gloss to it, but has some faint holograms I can only see with the Brinkmann. But, the holograms are much more faint than the micro-marring. I would call the D300 with DA and D151 with rotary a usable setup for a quick buff job.

I have it long enough to try the Sonax Perfect Finish with the DA and see if there is a DA option that works. Otherwise I think I'm going to do Menzerna 4000 on the rotary with a blue finessing pad and see if that can remove the D300 haze. I did a tape line and that looks darker and more clear than the same product on DA with a crimson HT pad.

This customer was willing to pay a little extra for the polishing step. I gave him a deal for having the chance to test the Sonax, since it is about the most finicky paint possible.

My conclusion is that I think that I could choose either the MF twins or D300/D151 (rotary) and make it work on most paint systems for a dealer. D151/rotary has a great gloss to it.

 

[bobrose]

If they are only paying $50 for an exterior detail they are probably not used to getting a quality job, and if they didn't appreciate the quality of the job you gave them, they probably don't care,or can't perceive the difference.

Your quickie job with D300 and D301 is probably better than what they are used to.

I would try to work something out with them for now, but try to get other dealers that appreciate high-quality work.

I would also consider taking out the clay bar step to save time.

 

[Meticulous-Detail]

Whenever I let it haze it is such a pain to remove... It doesn't come off like a normal wax. It feels more like when M105 dries on the paint. STUCK LIKE A DUCK. Because of that I normally remove D151 immediately after polishing. Maybe I am not letting it haze long enough?

If I run into this issue I either use water or clay lube spritzed on the panel to assist with removal.

 

[AutowerxDetailing]

If I run into this issue I either use water or clay lube spritzed on the panel to assist with removal.

I will have to try that next time. One thing I did notice was that when mixed with D300 the D151 was way easier to wipe off. I mean, D151 is not that hard to remove when it's still wet in the first place but it was even nicer to work with having the D300 mixed in.

 

[Meticulous-Detail]

I will have to try that next time. One thing I did notice was that when mixed with D300 the D151 was way easier to wipe off. I mean, D151 is not that hard to remove when it's still wet in the first place but it was even nicer to work with having the D300 mixed in.

Yes I noticed the same thing when I mix with DG 501.

 

[[email protected]]

Trust me man stay away from dealers they will not pay to do quality work and frankly don't care what they look like as long as they are clean. I now use police departments for filler work. They pay alright and they really appreciate the quality of the work.

 

[Pinpoint_Precision]

The dealers are really cheap, period. Guess what if they came to you, they came for a reason. Don't let them run over you, after all they don't have a clue what a proper detail is. Think about it, they have a professional body shop right? and yet they need you. So do this my friend, " PAY ME THE MONEY THAT I DESERVE" if not walk away. They will call you back, trust me. That's what we " MEN " do when we buy a car right? It works everytime and if they don't call you, move on. I have 3 deals with used car dealers in here close by where I live and they pay me good money and they see the professionalism that I put into every single car. Hope that helps you.