Is layering opti-coat worth it?

RaskyR1 said:
If I remember correctly 2.0 has always been layerable, it just wasn't discovered until after it was released (Chris demoing on Lambo hood at SEMA). It was the Original version of Opti-Coat that was NOT layerable, but after it was updated to the same resin as Opti-Coat 2.0 it became layerable.


Chris can correct if I'm wrong but that's how I remember it. :props:
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Chad, I remember when I got my first syringe from Justin. It was advised that you could double coat it, if you did so within five minutes


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richy said:
Chad, I remember when I got my first syringe from Justin. It was advised that you could double coat it, if you did so within five minutes


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Yeah, I was told the same and did that as well back in 2010 on my TSX. I think the window for layering just got larger after they went to the new resin. I'd have to go back and find the posts though...
 
So it's layer able for sure ? I just have to apply it within 5 min of the first coat ?
 
Lim3 said:
So it's layer able for sure ? I just have to apply it within 5 min of the first coat ?
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See what you done now Richy. :D


Chris@Optimum said:
Opti Guard/Coat goes through 3 processes. 1) the initial carrier flashing, 2) cross-linking, 3)resin dehydration/curing/hardening.

Carrier flashing happens within a couple of minutes. After application, the panel will flash to clear. When 90% has flashed clear, you should lightly buff any unclear spots of overapplication. After this first process you can add a second layer that will be like a thicker second coat.

Cross linking will occur within 12 +/- hours of application. After this second process, you can add a second layer that will be like an actual second application of the product.

Hardening occurs when the carrier solvent has been exposed to heat long enough to fully dehydrate from the emulsified resin. At this point (aroung 30 days), Opti Guard/Coat may no longer bond to itself without polishing first. You will see the product smear instead of flash clear and you can actually wipe it off the surface (not easily) as it drys. After this 3rd process, you can still layer but you will need to perform a light polish (Polish II or Finish on a finishing pad) to microscopically "scuff" the coating which will allow another layer to bond.

Let me know if you need further explainations and I will try to address them.
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Chris@Optimum said:
Recent formula improvements allow layering of the new version over its self; Not previous applications of previously released versions.


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Chris@Optimum said:
It is just tweaks not a reformulation. We always improve and never backslide, so of course the durability is the same. The major resin changes were made to the pro version so there's really not a significant change for Opti Coat 2.0 users. We did not set out to make it layer, we just noticed that you could now. You won't see any changes with stuff sticking to it LSP or containment wise. If you want it to feel slicker top it with OCW or Poli Seal. Opti guard is more concentrated and still cures faster. The main reason Opti Coat 2.0 works longer is because it's less concentrated but this has always been the case and is no change.


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Chris@Optimum said:
The solvent change was made to the pro version prior to releasing to the consumer version. The the difference to the resin was a minor tweak that prolonged the hardening to allow for a longer work time...same resin, slightly modified...but produces the same longevity and functionality while easier to use. Yes, Otpi Guard is more concenrated, but as the solvents flash away and the coating starts the process of dehydrating/hardening you will be left with a nice, even coating with either product.
The goal with either product is full coverage...not thickness.

This whole layering thing may be a product of the Zaino line which required multiple layers to achieve a certain look with extended durability. Layering is necessary for degenerative products that "wear off" with exposure to chemicals and environments, but it is simply not necessary with our coating. Whether the coating is 1 micron, 2 microns, etc. doesn't matter because it will not wear away. The same protection will be there years later. It is really not relevant which version you use or how thick it is applied from a performance POV. I'm sure there are companies that would deliberately continue to manufacturer in order to have you buy more product...and I'll be happy to sell you enough OC to layer as much as you like, but you'd be better off to save that money for gas and just apply a single coat.
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Plenty more out there if you do a search.
 
I can be simple minded at times, but, think of all those little scratches and RIDS that penetrate into the clear coat, even with a couple layers of wax/sealant. Now think about those scratches that went a little bit deeper, to the point where you didn't feel comfortable polishing them out. With every coat of Opti-Coat (or OC Pro), can't it be said that those types of scratches/RIDS might not be quite as deep, when comparing to non-Opti-Coated paint? So I would think that layering will not necessarily do anything for longevity or for water-sheeting, due to it being "permanent," but it could be the difference between being able to polish out a few RIDS here and there, and having to live with them. If I'm way off base, that's fine, but I feel it warrants a thought.
 
Y2KSVT said:
I can be simple minded at times, but, think of all those little scratches and RIDS that penetrate into the clear coat, even with a couple layers of wax/sealant. Now think about those scratches that went a little bit deeper, to the point where you didn't feel comfortable polishing them out. With every coat of Opti-Coat (or OC Pro), can't it be said that those types of scratches/RIDS might not be quite as deep, when comparing to non-Opti-Coated paint? So I would think that layering will not necessarily do anything for longevity or for water-sheeting, due to it being "permanent," but it could be the difference between being able to polish out a few RIDS here and there, and having to live with them. If I'm way off base, that's fine, but I feel it warrants a thought.
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Yeah, um..yeah, I was running some numbers about thickness...if a new factory CC is about .002", then even a 2 micron layer of OC, is only 4%. If it's at the smaller (.5 micron) thickness, it's 1%. So...I don't know what that means for marring being in the OC rather than penetrating thru to the clear. I don't know about the accuracy of coating thickness instrumentation down in the .5-1 micron range, either.
 
Y2KSVT said:
I can be simple minded at times, but, think of all those little scratches and RIDS that penetrate into the clear coat, even with a couple layers of wax/sealant. Now think about those scratches that went a little bit deeper, to the point where you didn't feel comfortable polishing them out. With every coat of Opti-Coat (or OC Pro), can't it be said that those types of scratches/RIDS might not be quite as deep, when comparing to non-Opti-Coated paint? So I would think that layering will not necessarily do anything for longevity or for water-sheeting, due to it being "permanent," but it could be the difference between being able to polish out a few RIDS here and there, and having to live with them. If I'm way off base, that's fine, but I feel it warrants a thought.
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Mark, I agree with you. In fact, I had a vehicle that was keyed about a week after getting coated with OG and I found it easier to remove those key marks than normal. Having a thicker coat can be nothing but beneficial as long as one doesn't take it to extremes.
 
richy said:
Mark, I agree with you. In fact, I had a vehicle that was keyed about a week after getting coated with OG and I found it easier to remove those key marks than normal. Having a thicker coat can be nothing but beneficial as long as one doesn't take it to extremes.
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Thanks for your response, Richy! You seem to have a lot of real world experience with OC/OG so I appreciate this feedback.

While on the topic of Opti-Coat, how easily removed is this coating with polishing? You're bound to get a few swirls here and there in the coating, so do you approach them like clear coat? Or does it polish down faster, thus removing the coating quickly and requiring you to apply more OC to that area? Ideally, I'd like to coat our Ford Edge next spring with the option of doing a very fine polish/black pad when needed, without removing the coating. What are your thoughts on that?
 
Flash Gordon said:
Hey thanks Bob. I've never heard of this guy so I have o idea of his qualifications

I did notice there is someone in Mphs that is certified, which brings me to my next question. Can there be more then one authorized dealer within the same city?

I appreciate y'all helping me out with all this. You sure are a helpful bunch!
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There can be more than one installer in any city. We may allow exclusivity regarding dealership installs, but that would require a contract to purchase XXX number of kits per month.

Y2KSVT said:
I can be simple minded at times, but, think of all those little scratches and RIDS that penetrate into the clear coat, even with a couple layers of wax/sealant. Now think about those scratches that went a little bit deeper, to the point where you didn't feel comfortable polishing them out. With every coat of Opti-Coat (or OC Pro), can't it be said that those types of scratches/RIDS might not be quite as deep, when comparing to non-Opti-Coated paint? So I would think that layering will not necessarily do anything for longevity or for water-sheeting, due to it being "permanent," but it could be the difference between being able to polish out a few RIDS here and there, and having to live with them. If I'm way off base, that's fine, but I feel it warrants a thought.
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That is a good assessment. I think you have hit on one of the most beneficial reasons to Opti Coat. Most detailers take, take, take away OEM by polishing/compounding. A combination of Opti Coating a new car along with some instructions on proper care (dos and don'ts) would save a lot of OEM paint. And years later, when swirls need to be dealt with...most likely they are the wash induced kind that would be no deeper than the coating. And even if the polishing session were to remove the coating, it should still be cheaper than the routine sealing and waxing that would not have protected the clear form acids and fallout. I like what Ron Harris of Concours Auto Salon in San Antonio said at the SEMA show. Someone asked what types of complaints/comments to expect when the warranty is released. He said the only two questions his customers ask is 1. Why didn't you tell me about Opti Coat sooner, and 2. When can you Opti Coat my other car.

Y2KSVT said:
Thanks for your response, Richy! You seem to have a lot of real world experience with OC/OG so I appreciate this feedback.

While on the topic of Opti-Coat, how easily removed is this coating with polishing? You're bound to get a few swirls here and there in the coating, so do you approach them like clear coat? Or does it polish down faster, thus removing the coating quickly and requiring you to apply more OC to that area? Ideally, I'd like to coat our Ford Edge next spring with the option of doing a very fine polish/black pad when needed, without removing the coating. What are your thoughts on that?
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It can be removed by polishes/compounds like regular paint. I've found it easier than paint when fresh and harder than paint once cured. It just won't wear off, wash away or loose characteristics over time from normal care.
 
Chris@Optimum said:
I
I will continue to make announcements as things develop on Optimum Forums. If you want to be an authorized installer, just contact me.

.
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Hey thanks Chris
Do you ever come to Mphs? If so maybe sometime you could show me in person the proper way to apply OG :props:
 
How long does it last with regular weekly washes ? I ordered it a few days ago and plan to apply it when I get rid of all those scratches on my CC.

Any vids on how to properly apply ?
 
Flash Gordon said:
Hey thanks Chris
Do you ever come to Mphs? If so maybe sometime you could show me in person the proper way to apply OG :props:
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I haven't in a while, but would gladly help you. You can call me or come by if you are ever up my way.

Lim3 said:
How long does it last with regular weekly washes ? I ordered it a few days ago and plan to apply it when I get rid of all those scratches on my CC.

Any vids on how to properly apply ?
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I have a couple of videos on YouTube. My channel is ChrisAtOptimum, also, several others have posted their methods so just search YouTube.
 
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