New 4Runner Limited - with swirlys

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Flynnstone

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I recently picked up a nearly new, black 2012 Toyota 4Runner Limited, which was owned by an older couple first before being traded in after a few months. They must've run it through a car wash a few times, because there's definitely some minor swirling going on.

After buying it i washed, clayed and polished the entire thing, by hand, with Zaino Z1. It definitely helped, however the swirls still exist.

I've never polished with power tools :xyxthumbs: however i'm thinking thats what will be needed to remove my swirly issue. Since i'm new to detailing properly, and this site, i've been reading up on the Porter Cable 7424 and the Meguiars G110v2. Any opinions on which to go with? Also, it appears that many people have had success going with Wolfgang TSR 3.0, and finishing it up with Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant. Since i don't want to go too abrasive on a new vehicle, i was thinking of starting with this combo, with the white polishing pad.

Does this sound like a good combo to start out with, in order to get me where i want to be?

Thanks!!
 
Flynnstone said:
I recently picked up a nearly new, black 2012 Toyota 4Runner Limited, which was owned by an older couple first before being traded in after a few months. They must've run it through a car wash a few times, because there's definitely some minor swirling going on.

After buying it i washed, clayed and polished the entire thing, by hand, with Zaino Z1. It definitely helped, however the swirls still exist.

I've never polished with power tools :xyxthumbs: however i'm thinking thats what will be needed to remove my swirly issue. Since i'm new to detailing properly, and this site, i've been reading up on the Porter Cable 7424 and the Meguiars G110v2. Any opinions on which to go with? Also, it appears that many people have had success going with Wolfgang TSR 3.0, and finishing it up with Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant. Since i don't want to go too abrasive on a new vehicle, i was thinking of starting with this combo, with the white polishing pad.

Does this sound like a good combo to start out with, in order to get me where i want to be?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

If you are going to get a polisher, get the Griots Gen 3. It has more power than the Porter and is overall the better machine. I have heard bad things about the Megs polisher with regards to reliability and vibration. Also it is done on power to the Porter

I am a Menzerna guy.

I would recommend for you
PF-2500 on a white pad
SF-4500 on a red pad
Finished with WDGPS

The wolfgang twins (TSR and FG) are menzerna based products. I believe you will get great results from them. You can get them in a kit with some pads as well.

Toyotas tend to be medium-soft with regards to the clear coat. So they polish out quick easily.

Make sure you use good quality, plush micro-fibre towels and you can achieve great results.

Post some before and after pics too!
 
For sure get the Griot's Garage unit. The gen 3 of course just came out, little better egronomics than gen 2 but the same machine otherwise. If you can find the gen 2 at a steal then STEAL that sucker.

If you buy a kit here on AG you'll get 6½" pads with it, likely you can pick the pad colors. I'd recommend at least 5~6 (minimum) of your pads being the same color as the 'workhorse' pads, (white perhaps). To do swirl removal on the 4Runner it'll easily take 6 (or more) to cover that beast. Using 2 ~ 3 pads will just cause them to clog and ruin your work.

Now the fun part.... :) To get some more pads AND have a few 4" pads on hand AG has a great kit for the PC/GG type machines that has 5" and 3½" backing plates, four 4" pads, cleaning spur, some more pads, bonnetts, XMT pad cleaner, XMT pad conditioner and all sorts of cool stuff.

With the mix of pads in that kit, plus what you get up front you'll have everything you need to get the 4Runner done without having to stop, clean pads, and wait on them to dry. They are CCS pads however and some don't like them but it's more of a matter of what you get used to as some do. (I use CCS and flats fwiw.)

The GG will turn 6" pads fine so you don't have to rush out and get smaller ones right away, especially if you only have the one car you're working with.

When you do want to get to smaller ones, the kit has that 5" so you can load up on 5½" pads as they go on sale. :xyxthumbs:

Just a thought.... ymmv ;)
 
Thank you both for the response.

I think i'll go with the Griots Gen 3, and will pick up a variety of pads and the Wolfgang polishes/swirl remover.

Since i'll be working on a larger vehicle, how often do you guys recommend to clean the pads or change them? For instance if i'm starting with an orange pad on the hood, will that same orange pad stay in good enough condition to complete half of the vehicle, or should i switch it out to a new orange pad after each major body panel?

Thanks!
 
Flynnstone said:
Thank you both for the response.

I think i'll go with the Griots Gen 3, and will pick up a variety of pads and the Wolfgang polishes/swirl remover.

Since i'll be working on a larger vehicle, how often do you guys recommend to clean the pads or change them? For instance if i'm starting with an orange pad on the hood, will that same orange pad stay in good enough condition to complete half of the vehicle, or should i switch it out to a new orange pad after each major body panel?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Typically every 20-30 minutes. As you gain more experience you will learn when the pad is dirty.

Quite often you do not need to setup a whole new pad. You can use Mikes "cleaning on the fly" technique
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuyrBrqz_YU]How To Clean Your Pad On The Fly - YouTube[/video]
 
They heavier polishing your doing, the more frequent you will need to change your pads. Wolfgang TSR is a great swirl buster. I would also get a 3" backing plate and some small pads for it.

It's very important to have good lighting and do a test spot. Buffing out a whole car to find out you didn't remove the swirls 2 days later when looking at it in a different light is very frustrating. And, it takes almost as long to do it wrong as it does to do it right.

I would also get a bottle of Wolfgang or Blackfire pad cleaner, this will make cleaning the polish out of your pads when your done a lot easier. It's also nice to have the Wolfgang pad priming spray, but you could use a quick Detailer instead.

I agree you will need some nice towels, especially since you are working on black.

Also, this is very important: Check your pads frequently to make sure they are not too hot. The GG6 has the power to burn pads, many first timers have done it, and they blame the machine. The machine itself makes little or no heat. The heat comes from using high pressure and speed with a saturated pad. You probably won't need to work on speed above 5.

Removing defects is all about the right product and pad with the correct combo of: downward pressure and arm speed.

That's all I can think of now. Good luck.
 
Thanks again. I've been reading up on pads, and am trying to determine which is going to be best to start with?

It sounds like I should pickup a 5.5"-6.5" white and red foam pad, and maybe an orange? Should i stick with Griots pads, or since i'm starting new, would it be better to go with the Lake Country CCS pads?
 
I put together my own kit a couple months ago in order to get 5.5" pads. I ended up ordering more a week later. You can never have too many pads imo. I like Lake Country 5.5" flat and Hydrotech on my Porter Cable. I have enjoyed every Wolfgang product I've tried so far. Welcome to AGO and a rewarding hobby!

Edit: I find myself using 4" LC pads quite a bit for tight spots with a 3.5" backing plate.
 
Flynnstone said:
Thank you both for the response.

I think i'll go with the Griots Gen 3, and will pick up a variety of pads and the Wolfgang polishes/swirl remover.

Since i'll be working on a larger vehicle, how often do you guys recommend to clean the pads or change them? For instance if i'm starting with an orange pad on the hood, will that same orange pad stay in good enough condition to complete half of the vehicle, or should i switch it out to a new orange pad after each major body panel?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Check out this link for an idea on keeping pads clean. Mikes articles and videos are a Godsend! :)

With an orange pad, honestly, I'd stop at the hood then clean it and leave it to dry. Another pad for the roof, (possibly going back to the dry hood pad ½ ~ ¾ way through). Another pad for the front fender, front door x 2, and then another one for each rear side. There is no way I'd even attempt swirl removal with less than 4 clean, dry pads! Six would be better. Thing is.... once you get to going at at, and the pads start getting dirty, you either have to stop, or you can spray some cleaner on them, throw them in a bucket with some Snappy Clean in it and keep on going. It's a lifesaver! (once you get the hang of it you'll be glad you did)

Once the serious swirl removal is done. the lighter polishing, by not having to work the paint as hard, takes a lesser toll on the pads. IE; you'll need less pads. :xyxthumbs: IOW's, if you used 6 orange, then 4 white should be fine. Move to black/blue 3 ~ 4 will be great in most instances. Heck I don't even own but 2 red in any one size. (That'll change next order however.) :rolleyes:

Now you're probably saying.... "This is getting crazy", that's what our wife's say all the time. :laughing: It's almost like the street dealer that gives away the first sample, then the rest really cost ya'. ;) Consider the buffer the sample, and to use it correctly it will take an investment in pads. However, you and your vehicles will thank you for it. :)

A man is only as good as his tools, and good tools are one thing AG has plenty of. :buffing: The good part is you only have to seriously invest once, after that it's just compounds, polishes, etc.
 
You can stop, clean a pad, roll it up in a cotton clothe, and prop it up in front of a fan or portable heater. It will be dry in 20 mins. This may help you from spending too much on pads.

Before it use the pad again, I go over the front with the sticky side of masking tape to remove any lint that may have stuck to it.
 
Cardaddy is right...

id recommend getting a couple more pads...it is really unreasonable to think that one orange pad will be enough to do a car, even if you plan on cleaning and drying between panels...4-6 of each colour for each step...

they are washable and will last you if you take care of them, so its worth it to have the extras.
 
Sounds like a plan. I just ordered up the Griots Gen 3, with one orange, white and blue CCS pads along with the Wolfgang trio.

Once i get everything ready, i'm going to do a test section and will then decide which particular pads to order more of. I'm hoping i'll be good with just the white and blue pads, but we shall see!:xyxthumbs:
 
Flynnstone said:
Sounds like a plan. I just ordered up the Griots Gen 3, with one orange, white and blue CCS pads along with the Wolfgang trio.

Once i get everything ready, i'm going to do a test section and will then decide which particular pads to order more of. I'm hoping i'll be good with just the white and blue pads, but we shall see!
Click to expand...

Great start! :)

Might just be able to make the whites work. Of the 65~70 some pads I own 8 are CCS 6½" whites, 4~5 are 5½" flats and are my 'workhorse' units. (After I get all the swirls out of everything.)

One thing that'll surely tell ya' is the test spot. I know that's about all you see around here is that same saying over and over but without it..... well it's just a waste of time.

I just started to look at doing my wife's Denali (burgandy red metallic with minor swirls and more than its share of RIDS) and thought FOR SURE the orange pads with Megs UC would be plenty.

Taped off the hood down the middle and across into 4 sections. Did the left side top with Megs UC and orange, 6 section passes, the bottom with 10 section passes. Then did the Megs UP on both with white 6 passes on each. Hmmmmmm..... wasn't bad but I had a feeling.

So I pulled the yellow out and did the right side, only 6 section passes on each quarter. Followed up with the Megs UP as before. Finally just for snits-n-giggles I slapped some M20 on all of it, and topped off with Megs Ultimate LW.

The other key is priming the pad. Some say use an X, others a spiral, and others take a spiral and work it into the pad with your thumbs (my preferred method). In any event, a yellow pad and a blue one prime VERY differently!

It all looked darned good in the garage, AFTER MIDNIGHT! :laughing:

Pull it outside the next day however and the yellow side was hands down better. :dunno:


What I did find.... in just that little experiment... was that the more often I changed pads, the better job they did. The less 'cut' you do, the less the pad fills up.

I'm still not finished as it all needs even more work than I did that night. I'll go back with 105 next time for the added cut (all I had here was 83 then and I don't like the way it works on a DA) then just change the amount of section passes and compare.

No matter how you approach it, you don't have to worry about hurting the paint. At least not with the tool you're using. Just do not over saturate the pad and burn it through. As is said over on MOL, "This hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not be the cause of your therapy". (or something like that) ;)

Happy buffing!

Cardaddy / T
 
cardaddy said:
Great start! :)

Might just be able to make the whites work. Of the 65~70 some pads I own 8 are CCS 6½" whites, 4~5 are 5½" flats and are my 'workhorse' units. (After I get all the swirls out of everything.)

One thing that'll surely tell ya' is the test spot. I know that's about all you see around here is that same saying over and over but without it..... well it's just a waste of time.

I just started to look at doing my wife's Denali (burgandy red metallic with minor swirls and more than its share of RIDS) and thought FOR SURE the orange pads with Megs UC would be plenty.

Taped off the hood down the middle and across into 4 sections. Did the left side top with Megs UC and orange, 6 section passes, the bottom with 10 section passes. Then did the Megs UP on both with white 6 passes on each. Hmmmmmm..... wasn't bad but I had a feeling.

So I pulled the yellow out and did the right side, only 6 section passes on each quarter. Followed up with the Megs UP as before. Finally just for snits-n-giggles I slapped some M20 on all of it, and topped off with Megs Ultimate LW.

The other key is priming the pad. Some say use an X, others a spiral, and others take a spiral and work it into the pad with your thumbs (my preferred method). In any event, a yellow pad and a blue one prime VERY differently!

It all looked darned good in the garage, AFTER MIDNIGHT! :laughing:

Pull it outside the next day however and the yellow side was hands down better. :dunno:


What I did find.... in just that little experiment... was that the more often I changed pads, the better job they did. The less 'cut' you do, the less the pad fills up.

I'm still not finished as it all needs even more work than I did that night. I'll go back with 105 next time for the added cut (all I had here was 83 then and I don't like the way it works on a DA) then just change the amount of section passes and compare.

No matter how you approach it, you don't have to worry about hurting the paint. At least not with the tool you're using. Just do not over saturate the pad and burn it through. As is said over on MOL, "This hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not be the cause of your therapy". (or something like that) ;)

Happy buffing!

Cardaddy / T
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. One of the things i was most concerned about was harming the new paint, or making matters worse. Based on what i've read, the Griot's unit i selected is near dummy proof, or i hope so!

I'm excited for this new gear to get here!
 
I think you will be happy with the Griot's polisher. I'm new to this detailing contagious disease for my personal cars and maybe friends in the future. When I first got started and really start researching all the detailing info I could find I ended up buying a 7424. I got busy with my work and about a year later I decided to use my new 7424 polisher and it only worked for about 2 hours so I ordered a different new unit from autogeek. It seemed under powered and I had sparks and smoke coming from the unit. So I decided to order the GG6 and man what a difference. Maybe I got a bad unit but I really like the GG6...just my 2 1/2 cents.
 
I believe the paint on my truck is single stage. Given the Wolfgang trio i'm going with, is there anything else i should add to this mix for the single stage paint? Or, will the WG 3.0 trio do the trick?

Thanks!
 
i actually thought about adding opticoat to the next single stage paint i see...in theory, it is kind of like a clear coat...not sure, but ill almost guarantee someone has used it.

BTW...the WG is a great product too...but ive never used it on single stage paint before.
 
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