Superomniphobic Coating???

Not anytime soon; if it's truly super hydrophobic it has a contact angle of 150+; gtechniq exo, which is the most hydrophobic coating we have, I think is something like 110 degrees? So it'll take some time.
Also Neverwet also demonstrated something similar; well not just similar, it was also a super hydrophobic coating back in august 2011, but still nothing since then... I'd imagine the manufacturing process or even making it consumer friendly is extremely difficult :/
 
i have waxes that can do that easily, you can't test it on that tiny little piece of material
test it on a hood, and it'll sheet just like any high quality wax , coating etc
 
SON1C said:
i have waxes that can do that easily, you can't test it on that tiny little piece of material
test it on a hood, and it'll sheet just like any high quality wax , coating etc
Click to expand...
Now...(take a deep breath)...And:
Without mentioning: "Anything-DoDo"...

Please (if you don't mind)...
Name some of those waxes you have, that: by following your testing parameters...
Will cause them to sheet like any high-quality wax, coating, etc..

Thanks.

Bob


BTW:
I thought all of your waxes were high-quality. :confused:
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
I believe C.Quartz, Opti-Coat, EXO, & 22ple all have a similar 100-110 degree water contact angle rating.
Click to expand...

Curious as to your opinion of the following:

What is the time-frame, for these particular Coatings, before this: Non-Wetting contact angle deteriorates...
and begins to 'lean towards' becoming: Wetting/Totally-Wetted contact angles?


Also:

Would these different/varying: contact angles...
ever be applicable to other LSP's, such as waxes/sealants?
If so: When?

Thanks.

:)

Bob
 
doesn't look like we'll be seeing these for any foreseeable future to cars at least, as the guy who developed it, said that they are very susceptible to mechanical damage. Our cars are always hit by bugs, rocks, and all sorts of debris that would damage the coating. Not to mention that is a visible fabric like coating, not clear like something like Opticoat.

A very cool link OP!
 
There is practically no chance this will be seen on after market automotive products any time soon. This topic or something close seems to come up routinely on detailing forums and is realistically a bit like reading an article about a new rocket propulsion technology and then debating how it will revolutionise indie car racing.

More generally this is an area where some suppliers massively oversell themselves. As others have pointed out, most 'super' products we have do not provide contact angles anywhere near the point which justifies classification of superhydrophobic. Alas, there are numerous products which persist in claiming it.

It is actually very straight forward to make superhydrophobic coatings - I have the ingredients to do it sitting in my lab - but application to the big outdoor world is another matter entirely. As noted by ihaveacamaro, mechanical durability is very tough to achieve. Often, if you can actually achieve it, you will have needed to go through numerous highly arduous steps which are a possibility in the lab but absolutely not for a single man with little chemical knowledge who simply wishes to protect his car.
 
FUNX725 said:
Now...(take a deep breath)...And:
Without mentioning: "Anything-DoDo"...

Please (if you don't mind)...
Name some of those waxes you have, that: by following your testing parameters...
Will cause them to sheet like any high-quality wax, coating, etc..

Thanks.

Bob


BTW:
I thought all of your waxes were high-quality. :confused:
Click to expand...

g26er said:
:)
Click to expand...

well first off, I'm not a dodo fanatic, I just stock a lot of their waxes, because their fun, quality, and provide a good finish
second I can't comment on all of my waxes as I haven't had the time to use all of them
furthermore any quality wax sheets well, but I'm not the guy to talk to as I have no interest in all of the coatings that get so much hype now a days, and yes I've put my money where my mouth is, and I have 5 coatings to try, the only one that interests me is a wheel coating personally -> granted some use the paint coatings on wheels as well
 
ihaveacamaro said:
doesn't look like we'll be seeing these for any foreseeable future to cars at least, as the guy who developed it, said that they are very susceptible to mechanical damage. Our cars are always hit by bugs, rocks, and all sorts of debris that would damage the coating. Not to mention that is a visible fabric like coating, not clear like something like Opticoat.

A very cool link OP!
Click to expand...

Mr Megane said:
There is practically no chance this will be seen on after market automotive products any time soon. This topic or something close seems to come up routinely on detailing forums and is realistically a bit like reading an article about a new rocket propulsion technology and then debating how it will revolutionise indie car racing.

More generally this is an area where some suppliers massively oversell themselves. As others have pointed out, most 'super' products we have do not provide contact angles anywhere near the point which justifies classification of superhydrophobic. Alas, there are numerous products which persist in claiming it.

It is actually very straight forward to make superhydrophobic coatings - I have the ingredients to do it sitting in my lab - but application to the big outdoor world is another matter entirely. As noted by ihaveacamaro, mechanical durability is very tough to achieve. Often, if you can actually achieve it, you will have needed to go through numerous highly arduous steps which are a possibility in the lab but absolutely not for a single man with little chemical knowledge who simply wishes to protect his car.
Click to expand...

agree!
 
FUNX725 said:
Curious as to your opinion of the following:

What is the time-frame, for these particular Coatings, before this: Non-Wetting contact angle deteriorates...
and begins to 'lean towards' becoming: Wetting/Totally-Wetted contact angles?


Also:

Would these different/varying: contact angles...
ever be applicable to other LSP's, such as waxes/sealants?
If so: When?

Thanks.

:)

Bob
Click to expand...

They way I understand how these coatings function is that essentially, if left untouched in a clean environment, the hydrophobic properties would last practically indefinably. Obviously real world conditions are drastically different and pose separate challenges such as: microscopic levels of mechanical abrasion during each wash, industrial fallout bonding to the coating, curvature of body panels, general roughness of some painted surfaces (orange peel). All of these factors can affect the hydrophobic effect of these coatings.

In order for the coating to achieve maximum hydrophobicity (that's a word right?) the nano-scale structures have to be uniform.


(-----) (-----) (-----) (-----) (-----) (-----)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


If the coating is damaged in any way due to mechanical abrasion or industrial fallout the nano-structures can be compromised leading to reduced hydrophobic properties.


------------- ---------- (----------)
^^^*^^^---^^^^^^^^^^**^^^^^^^^^^


Now, the reason these coatings last for their claimed 12-24 months (or even longer) is because they are so thick. So there are actually several layers of "hydrophobic film" that are available to protect the paint.

(------) (-----) (------) (-----) (---------)
^^^---^^^---^^^^^^^^^^---^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It is my understanding that as long as the coating is still present on the paint, and as long as there is no fallout or other substance "clogging" the nano-scale particles the coating will remain hydrophobic. How quickly the coating degrades, then, seems to be less a matter of time and more a matter of: how well the coating is cared for, the level of contaminates the vehicle is subjected to, how thick the coating is.

Regarding water contact angles of typical waxes and sealants. I have seen some pretty amazing beads from 845... it also lasts quite a while for a "wax." If there was a way to manufacture a wax that maintained a level of thickness comparable to modern coatings I think that would be a very cool thing.
 
The theory is that an ideal coating will stay clean in a non-ideal environment. The closer one gets to this, the less contamination will stick and the cleaner the surfaces will remain. One can make an assessment of a coating, more or less, based on how clean it stays. This is one reason why I do not like reading about manufacturers who have coatings which are 'picky' about maintenance products because the fact is that these coatings simply are not very good at avoiding contamination.

Thickness is something that depends upon the coating. The cutting edge presently is thin coatings, much much thinner than any wax layer. Mostly this is a technology which hasn't made it to automotive applications due to cost and complexity. However, there are many simpler technologies which are in automotive which are very thin. Take Gtechniq for example, these are genuinely thin coatings. Optimum coatings are of course much thicker and, in this instance, yes, this plays a significant role in the durability.
 
Ever Dry | UltraTech International Inc.

To me this looks exactly like that Neverwet product from about two years ago. And this is finally commercially available. It looks like it is about $50 for the bottom coat and $100 for the top coat.

Looks like an interesting product except two major drawbacks at this moment. It is not clear, more of a whitish tint. Also, it is not durable. It will abrade away.
 
mvanbv00 said:
Ever Dry | UltraTech International Inc.

To me this looks exactly like that Neverwet product from about two years ago. And this is finally commercially available. It looks like it is about $50 for the bottom coat and $100 for the top coat.

Looks like an interesting product except two major drawbacks at this moment. It is not clear, more of a whitish tint. Also, it is not durable. It will abrade away.
Click to expand...

As I stated elsewhere, give me 5 mins in the lab and I can make you a super omniphobic coating which will be equally useful for automotive use. The marketers with these products are extrememly annoying because they leave the general public with the incorrect belief that the technology is accessible to all.
 
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