Advice needed for first detail on BMW 335i BSM

[San]

Hello all,

I always took care of my cars, but all I knew about "detailing" was take the car to the car wash (hand washed or touchless) and voila, clean and shiny! Up until recently when I noticed the the paint on the car lost a lot of its shine when compared to newer cars. I began researching why and how to fix it. This is when I found AG and began reading a whole bunch of articles and posts. So one could say I'm a long time lurker, but first time poster.

The car is a BMW 335i Black Sapphire Metallic (hard paint), it's a daily driver with lots of swirls. I plan on doing a 90-95% correction this spring, but for the winter just ONR washes. Winter here is mostly around -15°C (about 5°F).

Here's a few shots in summer:
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Pre-Winter:
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Winter :
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The Gear:

- PC7424XP
- Cyan, Tangerine, Crimson, HT pad (1 of each)
- Wolfgang TSR3.0, FG, DGPS 3.0
- Pinnacle Souveran wax

- ONR
- OPC (APC)
- Cobra Supreme Guzzler 20x40 (1)
- Cobra Supreme 530 (6)
- GG MF wash pads (2)
- CarPro Wool wash mitt (1)
- GG Lamskin 4 fingers mitt (1)
- Gritguards (2)
- 5g Buckets (2)
- Clean Wheel nuts
- Generic utility brush
- 20ish Simoniz MF

- Conolly leather conditionner
- Simoniz Carpet & Upholstery foamer
- 303 Protectant

- Invisble Glass
- Aquapel

- Opti-Bond Tire Gel
- Flexable tire foam pad
- DP Wheel Glaze
- Nut and cavity cleaner
- 16oz sprayer (6)

The Plan:

Wheels:
- 3:1 OPC APC pre-soak, rinse
- Wash with Dawn and wheel wool mitt and utility brush for tires
- Apply DP Wheel glaze with (wheel dedicated) generic MF
- Apply Opti-Bond Tire Gel with Flex Foam tire applicator

Paint:
- Top down wash with Dawn, dry with Cobra Supreme Guzzler and some Supreme 530 MF
- Clay with XMT Speed clay and ONR
- Multi-step correction with a PC DA, WG TSR 3.0 with HT Cyan pad (will do test spot on hood), followed by WG FG on HT Tangerine and sealed with WG DGPS 3.0 on HT Crimson pad and topped with Souveran

Windows:
- Invisible Glass 2 times with MF
- Apply coat of Aquapel on all exterior windows
- Restore wipers with OPC APC and 303

Interior:
- Vacuum interior
- Clean leather, vinyl, plastics with 3:1 OPC APC
- Dress vinyl, plastics with 303
- Dress leather with Conolly
- Clean carpets with Simoniz carpet cleaner (heard steam was best, but don't have access to one)

Maintenance plan:
- Dean ONR wash weekly (including wheels)
- Monthly, add interior vacuum, wheel APC and glaze.
- Every other months, clay if necessary and add Souveran
- Every seasons (4 months), add WG FG on Crimson HT, WG DGPS 3.0 and Souveran. (before winter: add DGPS (2x) Souveran (1x))

I'll move on to engine cleaning, paint chips correction, road rash on the wheels and roof ding removal later when I'll be more comfortable with detailing.

Tell me what you think about the product choice, the plan and any tips or comments are appreciated. I'll add some more pictures of the swirls this weekend along with some more questions

Thank you,

San

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

You have a nice list to do the job but you need more than 1 pad of each color to do the car. You need anywhere from 3-4 pads minimum of each color.

 

[sickms3]

You need anywhere from 3-4 pads minimum of each color.

Even if you clean the pad as you go?

 

[Dr_Pain]

Even if you clean the pad as you go?

The multi pad suggestion helps if you don't want to spend more time than you need on the project. With multiple pads, you can rotate between pads and stay on task. You then have an extra pad on the side that is clean and drying a bit, ready to be used again. (I don't have a pad washer so can't comment on that)

Cleaning on the go helps if you are mainly dealing with caked on products/residue or if the pad is getting a little saturated. I like to have another on hand (when I take my time) just to allow the pad and material to dry on the pad that is being rotated out. I then use the perk up brush with the pad (with dried up material) on the DA and give it a whirl. I then spray some cleaner,clean and rinse and allow it to dry. All the while I am still on task with the other. When the other is dirty enough then it gets rotated out. I then spray some perk up solution or prime the pad with my compounding material, and I am back on task with the other pad going through the drying/cleaning/drying process.

Can it be done with one pad.... yep but you may end up with an oversaturated contaminated pad that explodes on you. I have a pic somewhere of what that looks like :nomore:

I clean the pad of built up residue, and inspect, every time the pad comes off the panel and rotate as needed.

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Even if you have a pad washer and wash the pad after every panel and spin dry it on a rotory, the effectiveness of cut goes down quite noticeably as the pad is still moist.

I do the above but rotate 3 pads to keep the maximum cut without over saturation of pads. This way after every 2nd panel the pad has a bit more time to dry.

 

[sickms3]

I guess I need to buy more pads.

 

[Dr_Pain]

I guess I need to buy more pads.

Or take a lot of breaks in between washes.... or spend more time with a slightly less effective "moist" pad.

It really depends on how much of a hurry you are in to finish the job!:buffing:

 

[sickms3]

This only matters on cutting pads right?

 

[swanicyouth]

San, I also have a BSM BMW. I have an 08 M Roadster. I can tell you the Wolfgang Polishes will work excellent on that paint, assuming there was no radical change in the formula between your car and mine. Which I doubt, because both are cars are non-ceramics.

Anyway, I'm just going to tell you this because I'm detailer OCD. Using a 3rd polishing step with Menzerna SF 4500 on A black LC CCS or red Hydro Tech pad will bring BSM to a crazy high gloss in my experience. I think the extra step is worth it if its your own personal car.

Here are some IPhone pics of mine after that process:

I did my car with an old non XP PC, which is all I had at the time. Having more than one of each pad is very nice. However it is POSSIBLE to do it with one pad. you will just have to stop, clean your pad, and blow it dry with a fan or a portable heater. Then free - spin it on your PC to get the final amount of water out.

Since the WG polishes are water based, a tiny bit of water left in the pad won hurt anything. Using blowers and fans, I've been able to dry a pad in 15 mins. Not because I only have one pad, just because I see no reason to use a new one in the plastic when I'm already taking a break.

 

[Old Tiger]

OPC @3:1 is too strong for intterior. I believe Optimum recommends 10:1.

 

[JSou]

San, welcome to autogeek.

I see nothing wrong with your plan of attack other than what was mentioned by the other members.

Take your time and work clean. I've been practicing for months now on my own beater. Now I am much more comfortable tackling my family and friend's cars.

 

[San]

Is it necessary to use dawn or is ONR preferable? The goal was to safely strip the paint.

The multi pad suggestion helps if you don't want to spend more time than you need on the project. With multiple pads, you can rotate between pads and stay on task. You then have an extra pad on the side that is clean and drying a bit, ready to be used again. (I don't have a pad washer so can't comment on that)

Cleaning on the go helps if you are mainly dealing with caked on products/residue or if the pad is getting a little saturated. I like to have another on hand (when I take my time) just to allow the pad and material to dry on the pad that is being rotated out. I then use the perk up brush with the pad (with dried up material) on the DA and give it a whirl. I then spray some cleaner,clean and rinse and allow it to dry. All the while I am still on task with the other. When the other is dirty enough then it gets rotated out. I then spray some perk up solution or prime the pad with my compounding material, and I am back on task with the other pad going through the drying/cleaning/drying process.

Can it be done with one pad.... yep but you may end up with an oversaturated contaminated pad that explodes on you. I have a pic somewhere of what that looks like :nomore:

I clean the pad of built up residue, and inspect, every time the pad comes off the panel and rotate as needed.

Even if you have a pad washer and wash the pad after every panel and spin dry it on a rotory, the effectiveness of cut goes down quite noticeably as the pad is still moist.

I do the above but rotate 3 pads to keep the maximum cut without over saturation of pads. This way after every 2nd panel the pad has a bit more time to dry.

I was thinking about using on the fly cleaning, but if I understand correctly, I should buy 2 more of each, do 1-2 sections then clean them and let dry. Put a new pad, continue, then repeat?

San, I also have a BSM BMW. I have an 08 M Roadster. I can tell you the Wolfgang Polishes will work excellent on that paint, assuming there was no radical change in the formula between your car and mine. Which I doubt, because both are cars are non-ceramics.

Anyway, I'm just going to tell you this because I'm detailer OCD. Using a 3rd polishing step with Menzerna SF 4500 on A black LC CCS or red Hydro Tech pad will bring BSM to a crazy high gloss in my experience. I think the extra step is worth it if its your own personal car.

Here are some IPhone pics of mine after that process:

I did my car with an old non XP PC, which is all I had at the time. Having more than one of each pad is very nice. However it is POSSIBLE to do it with one pad. you will just have to stop, clean your pad, and blow it dry with a fan or a portable heater. Then free - spin it on your PC to get the final amount of water out.

Since the WG polishes are water based, a tiny bit of water left in the pad won hurt anything. Using blowers and fans, I've been able to dry a pad in 15 mins. Not because I only have one pad, just because I see no reason to use a new one in the plastic when I'm already taking a break.

Nice paint you have there, so you do sf4500 right after WGFG? What about maintenance, which one do you use? What do you top it with?

OPC @3:1 is too strong for intterior. I believe Optimum recommends 10:1.

I think you are right,I'll double check the label.

San, welcome to autogeek.

I see nothing wrong with your plan of attack other than what was mentioned by the other members.

Take your time and work clean. I've been practicing for months now on my own beater. Now I am much more comfortable tackling my family and friend's cars.

Thanks, reading and watching videos are one thing doing it properly is another. This is why I have so many questions

 

[mg6045]

my M5 is in this color and good god the paint is ROCK HARD. It polish's up nicely but defect removal is a different story.

Not sure if there's any differences chemically with the paint they use for the M models, but this paint makes my Audi paint feel soft (which is was not! and that paint was ceramicleared).

For cutting I would recommend you go straight to MF with D300, or M101. Or M101 with foam. Or FG400 with cutting foam pads (hydrotech foam like you already have)

For polishing make sure you use something with CUT and finish to remove haze and a polishing pad (not finishing pad). ie : SF4000, M205, Optimum polish ect...

You are gonna want atleast 4 or 5 cutting pads. Especially if their Hydrotech. if you overwork one pad it will de-laminate in the center. Cleaning on the fly wont be good enough to avoid this issue. HT pads are tough to fully clean out due to there closed cell nature. What i do is just keep swaping pads, then at the end of the day clean them all out with a pad cleaner and let dry. also dont use HT pads wet as this will also cause problems. But in the end HT pads are amazing and cut and finish better than any foam pad on hard paint imo. you just have to treat them correctly.

For finishing you could get away with 2 pads. I personally would want atleast 3.

For rock chips I very highly recommend Dr.Colorchip sold here on Autogeek. So simple, and looks great. they also match paint as good as OEM. and in the end with their system it looks FAR better and more level than an oem paint touch up kit.

hope that helps !

 

[mg6045]

oh also let me add, do NOT use a pad conditioner brush with the Hydrotech pads ! If you must make sure you are just grazing over the top with them (which basically means its useless to use them).

The brush will remove foam from that sytle of pad and really tear them up.


These are the brush's you want to stay away from when using HT cutting or polishing pads.
Meguiars Professional Pad Conditioning Brush, pad cleaning brush

Foam Pad Conditioning Brush cleans and reconditions foam and wool pads on the buffer. remove excess caked wax and polish from buffing pads.

try using something like this. It has flagged bristles but yet they're still firm
Mothers Detail Brush Set cleans crevices and creases inside your car. Mother Detail Brush Set includes 2 small brushes.

 

[swanicyouth]

Nice paint you have there, so you do sf4500 right after WGFG? What about maintenance, which one do you use? What do you top it with?

You probably can use SF4500 right after TSR. I used TSR and WGFG. Then about 6 mos later I decided to change my LSP and gave it a go around with SF 4500 and a LC CCS black/grey pad.

While doing it it was hard to notice anything, but when the car was done I noticed the SF 4500 really boosted the gloss.

The glossiest LSP combo I've found is WG Deep Gloss Liquid Seal topped with WG Fuzion. That's what I used in those pics.

 

[swanicyouth]

my M5 is in this color and good god the paint is ROCK HARD. It polish's up nicely but defect removal is a different story.

Not sure if there's any differences chemically with the paint they use for the M models, but this paint makes my Audi paint feel soft (which is was not! and that paint was ceramicleared).

Unless its changed recently. All 5 series (M or not) and 7 series are "ceramic" clear. All Z4s, 1 series (M or not), 3 series (M or not), and X series (M or not) are traditional paint. So that may explain why your M5 is rock hard. My M Roadster is hard, but not super hard.

 

[San]

You are gonna want atleast 4 or 5 cutting pads. Especially if their Hydrotech. if you overwork one pad it will de-laminate in the center. Cleaning on the fly wont be good enough to avoid this issue.

For finishing you could get away with 2 pads. I personally would want atleast 3.

For rock chips I very highly recommend Dr.Colorchip sold here on Autogeek.

How many 20"x20" sections I should do before changing the pad? I would buy a few more pads, so 4-5 cut, 4-5 polish and 3 for Sealant and Wax?

I considered Dr.Colorchip, but was afraid I wouldn't match the color on the car. If it's that good and easy I would consider doing chip repairs before compounding and polishing the car. What do you think?

try using something like this. It has flagged bristles but yet they're still firm
Mothers Detail Brush Set cleans crevices and creases inside your car. Mother Detail Brush Set includes 2 small brushes.

I'll buy a pair of those as well then, I see then are used for crevices mostly, can I use the same pair for both purposes as well (brushes cleaned in between), or is it not recommended?

You probably can use SF4500 right after TSR. I used TSR and WGFG. Then about 6 mos later I decided to change my LSP and gave it a go around with SF 4500 and a LC CCS black/grey pad.

While doing it it was hard to notice anything, but when the car was done I noticed the SF 4500 really boosted the gloss.

The glossiest LSP combo I've found is WG Deep Gloss Liquid Seal topped with WG Fuzion. That's what I used in those pics.

I'll add SF4000 to my next order, seems like it does wonders. Too bad I already bought WGFG, I guess I'll try them both. Fuzion is a bit expensive and so was Souveran, I guess I'll have to stay with it for a while, but will surely consider WG DGL and Fuzion.

What do you think about using APC rather than a dedicated cleaner for the wheels?
I was considering buying IronX as well, but it has mixed reviews. I also do not have any brushes, what would you recommend being the minumum?
For maintenance, would you skip steps and use a cleaner/wax or do proper polish then seal?