detailing without insurance

[Meticulous-Detail]

State Farm and its both it covers if I Damage the car,stuff is stolen and if any damage happens to the garage. Its up to a million dollars.

Cool. I have SF on my home I will give them a call but I suspect the cost will be much more in NYC.

 

[Klasse Act]

This thread has me thinking, thanks!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

 

[Dr_Pain]

Here is something to throw in the pot (just because it's Friday and because I like to play Devil's advocate sometimes)....

What is so bad about self insuring yourself?

In all likelihood (if you are the average Joe), you will pay for insurance and never need it. The math is there to support the "in case the doodoo hits the fan" scenario, but can someone share with me the number of claims filed on detailers yearly.... nationwide? ....... Bueler?

I suspect that no one can, or will, come forth with the answer because the impact is sooooo insignificant that they won't keep specific stats to the question.

From a pure business stand point, it is all about the cost/benefit ratio and in this case, I strongly believe that the numbers for us anal retentive, meticulous, OCD people don't really compute in favor of having insurance. It is a good safety net, but does it pass the business math?

Spend $600 to $1000 a year to have the "privilege" of shelling out $500 for a deductible on a repair that may not even account for that much. So how much money is the insurance company out of pocket?? Multiple that by the number of years you've been in business and divide that by the number of claims.... and let's see if it makes sense!?!?!

Go 10 years with a Garage Keeper policy and you have spent $6000 - $10,000 for the "privilege" of paying an additional $500 for the deductible on what?? no claims?!

Here is a novel idea...... FORCED savings!! Take 10% of EVERY detail and put it in one of those "in case the doodoo happen" account, and NEVER touch it. If you are careless enough to have a claim then you deserve to pay up, so takes the money out of that account. If you are careful enough then PAY YOURSELF!!!

Even as a part-timer (doing this on the weekend) you can easily make $1000/month..... $100 in the "doodoo account". A year later you have conservatively $1200+, 10 years later $12,000+ (+interests).

Insurance companies capitalize on people "wishing" (not needing) to protect themselves. The bank always win (otherwise they would not be in business)

Carry on....

 

[Pureshine]

Here is something to throw in the pot (just because it's Friday and because I like to play Devil's advocate sometimes)....

What is so bad about self insuring yourself?

In all likelihood (if you are the average Joe), you will pay for insurance and never need it. The math is there to support the "in case the doodoo hits the fan" scenario, but can someone share with me the number of claims filed on detailers yearly.... nationwide? ....... Bueler?

I suspect that no one can, or will, come forth with the answer because the impact is sooooo insignificant that they won't keep specific stats to the question.

From a pure business stand point, it is all about the cost/benefit ratio and in this case, I strongly believe that the numbers for us anal retentive, meticulous, OCD people don't really compute in favor of having insurance. It is a good safety net, but does it pass the business math?

Spend $600 to $1000 a year to have the "privilege" of shelling out $500 for a deductible on a repair that may not even account for that much. So how much money is the insurance company out of pocket?? Multiple that by the number of years you've been in business and divide that by the number of claims.... and let's see if it makes sense!?!?!

Go 10 years with a Garage Keeper policy and you have spent $6000 - $10,000 for the "privilege" of paying an additional $500 for the deductible on what?? no claims?!

Here is a novel idea...... FORCED savings!! Take 10% of EVERY detail and put it in one of those "in case the doodoo happen" account, and NEVER touch it. If you are careless enough to have a claim then you deserve to pay up, so takes the money out of that account. If you are careful enough then PAY YOURSELF!!!

Even as a part-timer (doing this on the weekend) you can easily make $1000/month..... $100 in the "doodoo account". A year later you have conservatively $1200+, 10 years later $12,000+ (+interests).

Insurance companies capitalize on people "wishing" (not needing) to protect themselves. The bank always win (otherwise they would not be in business)

Carry on....

When your detailing 100k to 500k cars not worth taking the chance.If some broke in to my garage and stole everything rather pay my $250 deductible than 6k out of my pocket.Paying $30 a month is not much for piece of mind. Plus it makes customers with high end cars feel safe they are dropping their cars off.

 

[Detailingtime]

Treat your business like a business and it will repay you many times over. Insurance doesnt cost it pays in the long run.

 

[FUNX650]

Here is a novel idea...... FORCED savings!! Take 10% of EVERY detail and put it in one of those "in case the doodoo happen" account, and NEVER touch it. If you are careless enough to have a claim then you deserve to pay up, so takes the money out of that account. If you are careful enough then PAY YOURSELF!!!

Even as a part-timer (doing this on the weekend) you can easily make $1000/month..... $100 in the "doodoo account". A year later you have conservatively $1200+, 10 years later $12,000+ (+interests).

All it would take is for just one customer to slip on some of your:
Detailing-products'-residue/tools/equipment/etc.; fall and sustain an injury (real, or not);
file a liability claim/lawsuit...to wipe out that: "Forced Savings Account" in a hurry.

-This is a case where the detailer may be at fault...And as you stated: "deserve to pay up"...

But...
-Even if this detailer's "Forced Savings Account" had ~ $12,000 + interest accrued over a 10 year period...

-Would that even begin to cover this Customer's injury's (real, or not) hospital/doctors' expenses,
Attorney's fees (for both parties, no doubt), loss of income, possible loss of consortium, etc., etc.?!?!

(You, Dr. Pain...may be able to help out in the medical-costs arena somewhat, I would think.)

Some Attorneys' fees are hourly-based; or: "Wait 'til we win (lose) fees".


So...
-How can anyone that "Details" other folks' vehicles---even relatives...
Not afford to have insurance such as a:

Garage Keeper's Insurance Policy that would include, at the very least, the following addendums/clauses:
-Garage Keeper's Legal Liability
-Garage Liability: Automobile Portion
-Garage Liability: Other than automobile

When I was younger...
I despised plaintiffs that filed lawsuits that wound-up taking someone to the cleaners.

I finally came to grips with the fact that the:
Uninsured-Defendants had only themselves to blame.


Without insurance, they were basically exposing themselves...
Nay: Gambling with their family(ies), their home(s), all of their Worldly-belongings, and their "business"...

By evidently hoping that no: "doodoo" will ever happen while they're a: "Detailing entity"


Bob

 

[Dr_Pain]

@Bob, your replies always make me chuckle!

Obviously the post was to provide the other side of the coin, as well as get more conversation on the subject. If someone know about insurance and its value it would be me LOL!! As you pointed out when the "doodoo" hits the fan it does, and hard!

-medical fees (As you most likely are aware I know a LOT about these)
-attorney fees
-lost wages
-emotional distress
-loss of consortium
Etc...

......but it would be interesting nonetheless to see the number of filed claims and average payout on those claims.

I cannot deny the "potential", but how much does the "potential" actually become reality?

Here is another thought or question. How many detailers have had a claimed denied because the claim fell outside the parameters of the small prints?? Lord know I see that OFTEN!

 

[Pureshine]

This is my last post on this worn out thread! If you don't have insurance you are a dumb ass! It's not worth losing everything you have worked for.

 

[CM8 6MT]

when your detailing 100k to 500k cars not worth taking the chance.if some broke in to my garage and stole everything rather pay my $250 deductible than 6k out of my pocket.paying $30 a month is not much for piece of mind. Plus it makes customers with high end cars feel safe they are dropping their cars off.

^^^^ +10

 

[sparklingwater]

Okay since this was my question I'll close with this after read most if not all the posts. This is wha ti learned from everyone! It's better to be safe than sorry, customers feel safer, can help with advertising, acts as a safety net.

I think a lot of the comment like if it's a business then treat it as a business really hit home with me! If something were to happen to someone's baby (vehicle) I would want them to walk away knowing they were reimbursed and feeling like i was a friend and not an enemy. Insurance is affordable enough that to go without would just be setting myself up to fail. I think another pro is that i will have more confidence knowing that someone has my back and i can just focus on doing the best job I can! Thanks for everyone's help and bottom line "GET INSURANCE!" LOL GODBLESS EVERYONE AND HAPPY DETAILING!

 

[Dr_Pain]

Please don't consider this a highjack, but of those advocating business insurance, how many feel the same conviction regarding small time or part time detailers needing to carry:

Short term disability insurance
Long terms disability insurance
Employer inclusive worker's compensation insurance
Health insurance
Business interruption insurance
Commercial property liability insurance
A separate hired auto insurance coverage

In the comments I've read I saw strong convictions. I was just wondering how far that conviction extended?

How far do you extend the "in case the doodoo happen " coverage? All need to carefully evaluate the cost benefit ratio in the same as a garage keeper insurance.

A little parting thought, how many checked the fine print of their policy to see if a properly executed current business license and commercial rezoning of the building in question (even if it is a hime based business) is required for coverage!?! I would hate to at for a coverage which they can easily deny based on some obscure clause

 

[FUNX650]

Please don't consider this a highjack, but of those advocating business insurance, how many feel the same conviction regarding small time or part time detailers needing to carry:

Short term disability insurance
Long terms disability insurance
Employer inclusive worker's compensation insurance
Health insurance
Business interruption insurance
Commercial property liability insurance
A separate hired auto insurance coverage

In the comments I've read I saw strong convictions. I was just wondering how far that conviction extended?

How far do you extend the "in case the doodoo happen " coverage? All need to carefully evaluate the cost benefit ratio in the same as a garage keeper insurance.

A little parting thought, how many checked the fine print of their policy to see if a properly executed current business license and commercial rezoning of the building in question (even if it is a hime based business) is required for coverage!?! I would hate to at for a coverage which they can easily deny based on some obscure clause

Dr. Pain...

Your above listed "Insurances" notwithstanding:

1.) For folks that are only gainfully employed (full-time) in the "Detailing Business"...
Don't forget to set aside a little something for retirement...

2.) For folks that are small-time/part-time Detailers...
(That are also gainfully employed (full time) at another profession, as it were)...

They should, IMHO, check with their primary-Employer's HR Dept. to see what the consequences are
for lost-time hours/days/etc....Due to accidents/injuries while working at part-time job(S).

It's not the same...(as I once found out) as being injured/harmed while, for example:
playing adult recreational sports...where a simple accident report can be filed
in order to receive some sort of: "sick leave (insurance) pay" and, hopefully: Job protection.

I don't personally know of a: "non-emplyer insurance" that will cover this scenario.
However, an Insurance Agent should be 'Johnny-On-The-Spot'!!


Question:
Is there an: "IRS Audit Insurance" available for Detailing-folks that don't claim
their Detailing-income/Tips as: Earned wages?




Bob

 

[Pureshine]

IRS Audit Insurance? Never heard of it. I claim everything not worth getting busted and paying huge fines.

 

[Dr_Pain]

Bob, my friend, you bring the bar of knowledge to the next level and I love discussing off of your insights.

It does get EXTREMELY complex when you try to account for all the what ifs, and unfortunately most don't think or know to dive into the fine detail.

What if?:
- A part time detailer (with other primary occupation) gets injured while doing their part time job. Can they file the short term disability provided by their employer? or will being injured while working ( for yourself) disqualify you??
- Because of legislation like the "collateral source role", health insurance covers you regardless of the cause of your illness or injuries, but your plan may delay or deny based on liability assignment and can take up to 90 days claiming they don't have a subaggration agreement in place.
- For home based businesses will your homeowners and shop keeper policy play ping pong leaving you holding the pot?
- If your garage keeper policy extends coverage to you while providing transport for your customer's vehicle or customers, is the policy personal or commercial, and will the liability extend to the corp only or do they have recourse against you personally. Should you have an umbrella policy?
- If you are sued for chemical exposure/anaphylaxis, do you have the MSDS sheet of all the products you use and EPA paperwork? Is this considered negligence which your policy underwriter/adjustor can use to deny a claim?

....and the what ifs continue. Owning a business is a pain especially when you need to protect yourself or others.

Based on the OP's question and follow up comment we understand the importance of covering our bases in case the "doodoo" hits the fan, and equally important is to realize that we are not superman, can get injured and have a duty to protect our assets and interests of our loved ones.

 

[Dr_Pain]

IRS Audit Insurance? Never heard of it. I claim everything not worth getting busted and paying huge fines.

Such a product does exist but offers no guarantee and capitalize on people's lack of understanding of the IRS or its actual product.

Simply.... A money making scheme

 

[AutowerxDetailing]

Simply.... A money making scheme

This is my opinion of any/all types of insurance.

 

[Dr_Pain]

This is my opinion of any/all types of insurance.

It is Nicholas! Basically put, business is a money making scheme....period.

Insurance companies speculate that the claims paid will be less than the income from the individuals. They pool the moneys and depend on the fact that most won't file a claim. They evaluate and manipulate to maximize profits and stay in business that way. They use fear mongring and minimize your intelligence for "putting your family at risk" and even our government forces you to have some.

There are true benefits to having insurance but when you are too much of a liability they raise your premium to the point where you can't afford it anymore or deny you based in high risk levels (same a preexisting conditions)

There is nothing wrong with being self insured but this gamble can cost you EVERYTHING in one accident.

Don't get me wrong, even on insurance you are taking a big gamble that the insurance will cover you.... but never forget that their primary obligation is to their investors and their bonuses rather than the individuals they provide coverage for. Check out the stats on denied health coverage (and associated causal effect... ie death)

 

[Pureshine]

This is my opinion of any/all types of insurance.

So your telling me you don't have insurance? Yes its a money maker so is my detailing business. Is detailing your car a necessity no. So you could call detailing a money making scheme? For Dr. Pain ignorance is blind so go ahead and run a business without insurance. For the smart business owners who aren't willing to take a chance of losing their businesses.

 

[Dr_Pain]

So your telling me you don't have insurance? Yes its a money maker so is my detailing business. Is detailing your car a necessity no. So you could call detailing a money making scheme? For Dr. Pain ignorance is blind so go ahead and run a business without insurance. For the smart business owners who aren't willing to take a chance of losing their businesses. I hate people who hide behind some silly name on a forum.

Thanks Pureshine. I may have a "silly" nickname (which was given to me by one of my patients over 17 years ago), so silly to you maybe... to me, not so much. And please don't "hate" me for having a nickname. I did introduce myself on the "introduce yourself" thread. The name is Claude. If you want to know more about what I do for a living (primary occupation) feel free to read some of my previous posts.

If you take a minute to reread my comments in this thread I can assure you that you won't find a mention of me not having insurance or advocating not having insurance. I did play "devil's advocate" but if you want my personal input, just ask. This is a conversation, discussion or whatever you want to call it, and I don't think it needs to turn nasty.

P.S. Just an FYI, I pay tens of thousands a year in insurance. I hope this helps alleviate your concerns as to my sanity or level of intelligence. I am exposed to the potential of multi-million dollar malpractice claims EVERY DAY, so if one understands the risk/benefit.... I think I am we'll qualified. Thanks for your concerns.

 

[Pureshine]

I did take the comment out about your name I felt it was wrong for me to say.