Opti Seal vs any other Polymer Sealant?

[cardaddy]

Hi guys!

I'm working on yet another order, trying to round out some items I need here and there. Part of it will be deciding on whether I offer Optimum products, or Cquartz as a hi-line coating. I of course use ONR and ONRWW daily, no brainer there.

I started thinking I'd go with Opti Coat as a product I can offer but I gotta' say... CarPro has peaked my interest. Optimum has a bunch of spray compounds, polishes etc. but I have no need for that line of products.

My question is, Opti-Seal is a polymer sealant, right? Playing Devils Advocate here... Then what makes it *that* different than say M21 2.0? Yes, I understand it's hyper concentrated, takes just a few drops and all that. But.... M21 doesn't exactly go on by the pint. I waste it by using a finishing pad and DA to apply, but it really doesn't take much to get full coverage. I'd say 1 ounce goes a very very long way. And I know from experience that it is pretty darne durable.

However, If y'all have compared the two side-by-side I'd love to know how that worked out. If it's a similar look/feel/finish/durability then it'd just be down to price per application. :dunno:

Now, as for Opti-Coat vs Cquartz I *might be* open there. Majority rules.... right? (According to Roberts Rules of Order that is....) Thing is, Optimum just introduced Opti-Glass & Opti-Lens (although not on their own site) which seems interesting if nothing else. Then again, that compares directly to Cquarts DLUX. Although I'm unsure that DLUX would be what Carpro would recommend on glass, so maybe just down 1 out of 3 there. :dunno:

I know I'm already ordering something before the 18th, (to match 25% sale "over yonder" ). Just don't what all I'm ordering! :laughing: Just going nuts to get a 'coating' on a couple cars around here, (like the Denali and my wife's parents 2012 Sentra).

Pssst, still diggin' into a caseload MF order too, (the wife is coming around on that), some of ya' know what that's about. If not, it's a PM thing.

WOW... it's late! I gotta' go get that Butchers Foam gun ordered before I forget it tonight.

 

[WRXINXS]

I have used both the old and new version of Opti-Seal. I really them both.

You are correct in that Opti-Seal is a pure polymer sealant. It has no filling properties. I believe (Don't quote me on this) that M21 2.0 has some "Filling" properties to it.

The benefit of Opti-Seal over M21 2.0 is time savings. M21 is a conventional sealant that you have to apply, wait for it to haze, and buff it off.

Opti-Seal is a WOWA (Wipe on walk away) product that does not need to be buffed off (Although if you apply to thick it will streak and you will need to wipe off the excess with a microfiber). Even if it does not streak a "Final wipe" would be good idea.

Other WOWA products include Blackfire Crystal Seal, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Liquid Seal and the new Migliore Cima Sealant.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I have heard the Blackfire and Wolfgang are less prone to streaking that Opti-Seal. I still use Opti-Seal over the other two because Optimum has been in the WOWA game for alot longer.

 

[primo spaghetti]

cardaddy i see a few things you may be confusing...

"DLUX Long Life Trim Coat was engineered specifically for coating plastics as well as rubber and metal".

i wouldnt use Dlux it on paint or compare it to Opticoat...they are for different purposes. for paint use Cquartz or Cquartz UK

"Ultra hard CQuartz contains ceramic nano particles found within glass, the result is a highly reflective, transparent layer offering incredible durability"

"Opti-Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints to form a permanent film"

Cquartz is a silica sealant where opticoat is a resin polymer...two entirely different products with different results.

also CarPro has a glass sealant called flyby30, and optimum's glass coating (and all there new coatings) are on the distributors website. PM me if you want the addy daddy.lol

if youre looking for something easy from the carpro line, look to hydrO2, and easy from the optimum line, optiseal. excellent results with very little effort. just not the longest durability...

 

[Nate3420]

I have used both the old and new version of Opti-Seal. I really them both.

You are correct in that Opti-Seal is a pure polymer sealant. It has no filling properties. I believe (Don't quote me on this) that M21 2.0 has some "Filling" properties to it.

The benefit of Opti-Seal over M21 2.0 is time savings. M21 is a conventional sealant that you have to apply, wait for it to haze, and buff it off.

Opti-Seal is a WOWA (Wipe on walk away) product that does not need to be buffed off (Although if you apply to thick it will streak and you will need to wipe off the excess with a microfiber). Even if it does not streak a "Final wipe" would be good idea.

Other WOWA products include Blackfire Crystal Seal, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Liquid Seal and the new Migliore Cima Sealant.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I have heard the Blackfire and Wolfgang are less prone to streaking that Opti-Seal. I still use Opti-Seal over the other two because Optimum has been in the WOWA game for alot longer.

This being said about the wipe on and walk away is there a long cure time. I've seen most people with blackfire just wiping on waiting an hour and then applying wax

 

[Setec Astronomy]

cardaddy, you wandered into a lot of topics in your post, but back to the title--of Opti-Seal vs. a traditional sealant--IMO you can't really compare a WOWA sealant (Opti-Seal, UPGP, Zaino Clear Seal, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Liquid Seal, Blackfire Crystal Seal, or the new Migliore product) with a traditional wipe/haze/wipe product.

If I was starting over I think a WOWA is all I would use--you can use it on every surface, no worries about getting residue anywhere, etc. and it's fast and easy.

 

[TroyScherer]

This being said about the wipe on and walk away is there a long cure time. I've seen most people with blackfire just wiping on waiting an hour and then applying wax

The cure time for BFCS is only 45min-1hr under optimal conditions. So you can apply a second layer quicker. You are still safer to wait a little longer for a good cure.

 

[swanicyouth]

I use the WGDGLS. It's a great product. However, it still requires some "leveling" on black no matter how hard I try. It's still much easier to use its very glossy. However, I don't think durability is as good as the standard sealant.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I use the WGDGLS. It's a great product. However, it still requires some "leveling" on black no matter how hard I try. It's still much easier to use its very glossy. However, I don't think durability is as good as the standard sealant.

I guess the argument is that even though the durability is less, it's so fast and easy to apply it doesn't matter. Unless of course you live at the latitude you and I do where we have winter.

 

[TroyScherer]

I guess the argument is that even though the durability is less, it's so fast and easy to apply it doesn't matter. Unless of course you live at the latitude you and I do where we have winter.

I do agree. WOWA sealants seems to be quicker and easier.

But at the same time I see and have use for traditional sealants. I think it comes down to user presence and circumstances. If you are always working outside and have to deal with wind I personally would go with a traditional sealant, as WOWA sealants have issues with wind when you have to spray them on.

 

[FUNX650]

Playing Devils Advocate here...

(One of) My question(s) is, Opti-Seal is a polymer sealant, right?

^^^I'll go along with that statement.^^^

Then what makes it *that* different than say M21 2.0?

If there is, in fact, any differences between these two sealants...
it may lie in the selection, quality, quantity of the polyamino functional groups
(such as: polydimethylsiloxane) by these products' Chemists/formulators.

A question, if I may, to go along with this poser of yours:
Disregarding "gentle cleansers and such":
What are the difference(s), if any, between:
M21 2.0...A: Synthetic Sealant and M20...A: Polymer Sealant?

Re: "Opti Seal vs any other Polymer Sealant"?

IMO...
In order to properly address this question...
certain parameters may have to be outlined.

For instance:

-Is Opti-Seal a WOWA Polymer Sealant?
-Are there any other Polymer Sealants that are WOWA?
-Are there any other Polymer Sealants that are not WOWA?
-Which are "longer-lasting/more durable": WOWA or WOWO Sealants?
-Are: Acrylic Sealants also: Polymer Sealants? Vice versa?
-Which are "longer-lasting/more-durable": Acrylic or Polymer Sealants?
-What is, (or can there be): 'Synthetic Wax'
-Are there any: 'Synthetic-Wax Sealants'?


If, then, there would be actual different "types" of Sealants:

-Which "type" of Sealant is the most acid-rain/bird-poop resistant?
-How do these different "types" of Sealants bond to the paint?
-What is: "Etches the paint"?
-Do all Sealants "cross-link"?
-Can all Sealants be layered upon themselves?

I'll stop here...Except to say:
-Sealants are usually a joy to apply;
-Sealant's "looks" often vary by each individual's eye-perception;
-Sealants are said to offer a longer interval between
applications than, say, a carnuba-wax may.


I wonder...
Is any of the above... (as in: pertaining to answering your questions):
Clear as Mud




Bob >>>("Devil's-Advocate #2")

 

[cardaddy]

I have used both the old and new version of Opti-Seal. I really them both.

You are correct in that Opti-Seal is a pure polymer sealant. It has no filling properties. I believe (Don't quote me on this) that M21 2.0 has some "Filling" properties to it.

The benefit of Opti-Seal over M21 2.0 is time savings. M21 is a conventional sealant that you have to apply, wait for it to haze, and buff it off.

Opti-Seal is a WOWA (Wipe on walk away) product that does not need to be buffed off (Although if you apply to thick it will streak and you will need to wipe off the excess with a microfiber). Even if it does not streak a "Final wipe" would be good idea.

Other WOWA products include Blackfire Crystal Seal, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Liquid Seal and the new Migliore Cima Sealant.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I have heard the Blackfire and Wolfgang are less prone to streaking that Opti-Seal. I still use Opti-Seal over the other two because Optimum has been in the WOWA game for alot longer.

I also am of the mind that M21 has at least *some* filling properties. Might have to investigate that (but it'll still be within' reach no matter what I'm working on). The one thing it doesn't do is STREAK. (Unless you try to top it with wax too soon, which is exactly what happened with "Mike" in "you can't fix stupid".)

Now WOWA is why I started the thread actually. I do feel I need to add more to my arsenal, but not willing to have so many products I need a semi trailer to tow them all. :laughing: Going old school (well for me THAT IS SCHOOL!).... but I'd like to associate it with a 'line' of products rather than segmented stuff here and there.

That being said I've read good things about Blackfire and Wolfgang and without the streaking it could surely help with workflow. I'm not worried about how long things take actually because I'll NEVER be in this for production work, but if I can WOWA that gets me off my feet sooner. (Today my left one has it's own ZIP CODE because I had needles stuck into a tumor growing around the nerves behind the 4th toe, BETWEEN the toes actually!!!)

 

[cardaddy]

cardaddy i see a few things you may be confusing...

"DLUX Long Life Trim Coat was engineered specifically for coating plastics as well as rubber and metal".

i wouldnt use Dlux it on paint or compare it to Opticoat...they are for different purposes. for paint use Cquartz or Cquartz UK

"Ultra hard CQuartz contains ceramic nano particles found within glass, the result is a highly reflective, transparent layer offering incredible durability"

"Opti-Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints to form a permanent film"

Cquartz is a silica sealant where opticoat is a resin polymer...two entirely different products with different results.

also CarPro has a glass sealant called flyby30, and optimum's glass coating (and all there new coatings) are on the distributors website. PM me if you want the addy daddy.lol

if youre looking for something easy from the carpro line, look to hydrO2, and easy from the optimum line, optiseal. excellent results with very little effort. just not the longest durability...

Nope, no confusion with DLUX, I was comparing that to Opti-Lens in that could OL, be used on plastic for instance as DLUX? :dunno:

So then the flyby30 would be the alternative to Opti-Glass? Now I seem to remember reading about that product, orginally an aircraft product if I recall. :doh:

Funny you mention hydro02, I watched that video on AG (Mazda) yesterday. That just seems weird to me, spray it on and rinse it off. I can see a customer asking "Why are you charging me for something that you just rinsed completely off my CAR?". You know how rubbing stuff on seems to be what we all feel better at and all that jazz.

Right now to me, whether it's a resin pre-polymer or a silica quartz isn't *the* biggest deciding factor. Not wanting to have to keep up with, and service more than one "permanent" coating is what I'm after. As long as it gives me the 1; vendor to installer support, 2; longevity, 3; results, 4; similar price point, and most importantly "The Look" then it'll be the one I put my effort(s) into and offer my customers.

I'll drop ya' that PM cause' we need the addy for daddy.

 

[WRXINXS]

I read that time between coats of Blackfire Crystal seal is like an hour and that Opti-Seal is 12-24 hours which is confusing because they are very similar products.

 

[cardaddy]

cardaddy, you wandered into a lot of topics in your post, but back to the title--of Opti-Seal vs. a traditional sealant--IMO you can't really compare a WOWA sealant (Opti-Seal, UPGP, Zaino Clear Seal, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Liquid Seal, Blackfire Crystal Seal, or the new Migliore product) with a traditional wipe/haze/wipe product.

If I was starting over I think a WOWA is all I would use--you can use it on every surface, no worries about getting residue anywhere, etc. and it's fast and easy.

And hence why I mentioned the "Devils Advocate" angle.

I tend to think the WOWA stuff as more of a 'coating' than a traditional 'sealant' and that's where the confusion sets in.

I agree however that WOWA is pretty cool, and looks to certainly be the way of the future. That's why I'm looking into this now. Especially before I get too invested into a number of different product lines. If I can have one 'go to' for a permanent coating, (along with it's associated products) that'll surely streamline the workflow.

Tell me something.... are you a big fan of "Sneakers"? I haven't seen it in YEARS. Too many secrets..... :dblthumb2:

 

[cardaddy]

The cure time for BFCS is only 45min-1hr under optimal conditions. So you can apply a second layer quicker. You are still safer to wait a little longer for a good cure.

I use the WGDGLS. It's a great product. However, it still requires some "leveling" on black no matter how hard I try. It's still much easier to use its very glossy. However, I don't think durability is as good as the standard sealant.

I do agree. WOWA sealants seems to be quicker and easier.

But at the same time I see and have use for traditional sealants. I think it comes down to user presence and circumstances. If you are always working outside and have to deal with wind I personally would go with a traditional sealant, as WOWA sealants have issues with wind when you have to spray them on.

So, the above being the 'norm' for these products. Spray and walk away, then HOPE there isn't a windstorm, dust, heavy pollen, landscaper with a blower (or lawnmower) and the like that just happens by in the next hour, RIGHT? :dunno:

Something to be said for having an enclosed space and the 'time to cure' would I assume be a most welcome practice.

As I mentioned, I'll always keep M21 (as well as M20 I suppose) handy. I know how they work, I *LIKE* how they work, and the results speak for themselves. Conversely, I'll have the ability to use my 3-car garage more often than not as I don't see us doing 'true' mobile detailing. So the 'cure time' may indeed be a moot point.

Given that, it looks like what I'm seeing here is WOWA is a bit less time consuming, but is the lifetime of the product any longer than a wipe-haze-wipe (WHW) product? Given that WHW can actually take *less* time than WOWA + cure time it seems a bit of a wash.

OTOH, that moves us to the true permanate coatings. Are the WOWA "sealants" anywhere NEAR in the same league as hard silica/glass/resin-polymer etc.? Seems like there may be three levels of protection perhaps? And I can sell that actually. :xyxthumbs:

 

[MarkD51]

So, the above being the 'norm' for these products. Spray and walk away, then HOPE there isn't a windstorm, dust, heavy pollen, landscaper with a blower (or lawnmower) and the like that just happens by in the next hour, RIGHT? :dunno:

Something to be said for having an enclosed space and the 'time to cure' would I assume be a most welcome practice.

As I mentioned, I'll always keep M21 (as well as M20 I suppose) handy. I know how they work, I *LIKE* how they work, and the results speak for themselves. Conversely, I'll have the ability to use my 3-car garage more often than not as I don't see us doing 'true' mobile detailing. So the 'cure time' may indeed be a moot point.

Given that, it looks like what I'm seeing here is WOWA is a bit less time consuming, but is the lifetime of the product any longer than a wipe-haze-wipe (WHW) product? Given that WHW can actually take *less* time than WOWA + cure time it seems a bit of a wash.

OTOH, that moves us to the true permanate coatings. Are the WOWA "sealants" anywhere NEAR in the same league as hard silica/glass/resin-polymer etc.? Seems like there may be three levels of protection perhaps? And I can sell that actually. :xyxthumbs:

As for these WOWA's. like WGDGLS, UPGP, Opti-Seal, (which I have used) and I supect some other similar types which I haven't, I don't think that there's so much worry to be concerned about, in regards to dusts landing on the vehicle that's going to be any sort of problem playing havoc with the just applied finish.

That in fact, these products are basically dry to the touch, and in fact perhaps hold advantage over the more conventional Wipe On-Wipe Off Sealants, (Such as WGDGPS 3.0) in that with a WOWO, you usually apply, now have to allow a cure time before removal.
In that scenario, and if one's working outdoors with winds and dusts blowing around, I would think one would be more likely to cause micromarring with these products, versus the WOWA's.

I gather the "cure time", and it probably holds true with either WOWA, or WOWO, is to not wet the finish, nor do any follow-ups with other products on top until full curing (per manufacturer's suggestions) are reached.

It is pretty much agreed that none of these quick WOWA's listed above have the durability of EXO, Opti-Coat/Guard, CarPro CQuartz, and the like, but I do like them because they are easy to apply, and IMO are like a Spray Detailer, yet are better usually protection-wise.

I'm finding that I now usually grab a product like Opti-Seal, or WGDGLS, rather than a detailer spray after a wash.

They may not bond as well using such on top of a hodge podge of different products, but they seem to be more forgiveable in application.

 

[cardaddy]

A question, if I may, to go along with this poser of yours:
Disregarding "gentle cleansers and such":
What are the difference(s), if any, between:
M21 2.0...A: Synthetic Sealant and M20...A: Polymer Sealant?

And for further muddification.... actually I didn't ask about a difference between M21 and M20. That was, "M21 2.0". AFAIK, both are synthetic polymer sealants.

Re: "Opti Seal vs any other Polymer Sealant"?

IMO...
In order to properly address this question...
certain parameters may have to be outlined.

For instance:

-Is Opti-Seal a WOWA Polymer Sealant?
-Are there any other Polymer Sealants that are WOWA?
-Are there any other Polymer Sealants that are not WOWA?
-Which are "longer-lasting/more durable": WOWA or WOWO Sealants?
-Are: Acrylic Sealants also: Polymer Sealants? Vice versa?
-Which are "longer-lasting/more-durable": Acrylic or Polymer Sealants?
-What is, (or can there be): 'Synthetic Wax'
-Are there any: 'Synthetic-Wax Sealants'?

Yes, this is indeed the crux of where I was going!
Yes there is also Synthetic Wax, most of what is out there today is some sort of "blend". Which btw to us 'old guys' we (meaning ME) have the first picture in the mind of carnuba when the word WAX is used. Take Megs ULW, or Megs USW, both different, but both a synthetic polymer wax.



If, then, there would be actual different "types" of Sealants:

-Which "type" of Sealant is the most acid-rain/bird-poop resistant?
-How do these different "types" of Sealants bond to the paint?
-What is: "Etches the paint"?
-Do all Sealants "cross-link"?
-Can all Sealants be layered upon themselves?

I'll stop here...Except to say:
-Sealants are usually a joy to apply;
-Sealant's "looks" often vary by each individual's eye-perception;
-Sealants are said to offer a longer interval between
applications than, say, a carnuba-wax may.


I wonder...
Is any of the above... (as in: pertaining to answering your questions):
Clear as Mud

Bob >>>("Devil's-Advocate #2")

And NOW we get down to it....
Is "brand A" a sealant, and "brand B" a coating?
What is the difference when both are WOWA?
Does one 'sheet' and the other 'bead'?
What about durability?

• Washes off after X amount of time/washes.
• Wears off?
• You have to physically REMOVE it!

What about how to "re-apply" when the sealant needs it VERSUS when the coating needs it? (Both are going to need something, and some time down the road.)

Now which one is easier....

 

[TroyScherer]

I think you are simply over-thinking everything and getting yourself confused.

So, the above being the 'norm' for these products. Spray and walk away, then HOPE there isn't a windstorm, dust, heavy pollen, landscaper with a blower (or lawnmower) and the like that just happens by in the next hour, RIGHT? :dunno:

Incorrect... The cure time I referenced is the same cure time that you get with M21. With 2 differences.

1. The cure time can be shorter.
2. The cure time with WOWA sealants starts as soon as it's applied. The cure time "standard" sealants start after you wipe off the haze...

As I mentioned, I'll always keep M21 (as well as M20 I suppose) handy. I know how they work, I *LIKE* how they work, and the results speak for themselves.

"Find something you like and use it often" - Mike Phillips

Given that, it looks like what I'm seeing here is WOWA is a bit less time consuming, but is the lifetime of the product any longer than a wipe-haze-wipe (WHW) product? Given that WHW can actually take *less* time than WOWA + cure time it seems a bit of a wash.

I disagree...

With WOWA sealant once I apply it I am done. I can do a normal sized car in 20min and have everything perfect.

With a standard sealant I might apply it quicker but I have to wait and the come back and buff off the haze. This make it usually double the time for me. I usually use KSG, MPL, WG DGPS, BFWD when using regular sealants.

OTOH, that moves us to the true permanate coatings. Are the WOWA "sealants" anywhere NEAR in the same league as hard silica/glass/resin-polymer etc.? Seems like there may be three levels of protection perhaps? And I can sell that actually.

WOWA sealants are the same as your regular sealants. They simply have a differently application method and liquid carriers to help apply them. They still leave the same "type" of film on the car that we consider protection.

WOWA sealants are definitely NOT "permanent coatings liker OD, CQ.

I agree there are 3 "levels" of protection. But not in the way you listed them. IMO they are: Wax, Sealant, Coating. At the end of the day is is really measure in length of protection. Weeks, Months, Years.

I hope this helps.

 

[RBJR]

Prepped my painted wheels with Auto Finess Rejuvenate, then applied Mint Rims Wheel Wax and topped off with Opti Seal.

Opti-Seal was very easy to apply and made the wheels pop even further. Seem to add shine and a layer of richness.

My wife even noticed and she isn't a car person. She generally pays no attention and is clueless. LoL She said the wheels shine had depth.

 

[FUNX650]

And for further muddification....

:updated:: OK...Let me try it again.


{UH...What was your original question?}



:bolt:

Bob