2nd Buffer?

M

Mach1USMC

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
379
Reaction score
0
Not sure if this is the correct section or not but I figured this was a good a place as any.

I already have a PC 7424 and an assortment of pads but have heard that the PC may not be "strong enough" for some jobs. Since I am going to open my own business at the beginning of next yr, I'd like to get a second buffer. What are some of the recommendations? Should I get another DA or go with a rotary? The following DA's are on my short list: Rupes Bigfoot, Flex 3401, and Griots DA. Are there any others I should consider? It seems like those are the ones mentioned the most.
 
You wouldn't go wrong with any of the ones mentioned.
If money is not an issue, deff the Rupes (<3 mine) but if your on a budget i'd go with the GG6 (griot's)

Flex is also a great machine especially with the hybrid set up.

My 2¢
 
Colinpd137 said:
You wouldn't go wrong with any of the ones mentioned.
If money is not an issue, deff the Rupes (<3 mine) but if your on a budget i'd go with the GG6 (griot's)

Flex is also a great machine especially with the hybrid set up.

My 2¢
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input.... I can afford a Rupes "kit" no problem. I just want the best "bang for the buck" so to speak.
 
I have not used any of the rupes pads or polishes, from the couple opinions iv'e heard there not anything special, and the price is.. not something I want to pay to find out. So I went with stuff that worked.

Rupes 21 w/ 5" BP
Rupes Bag (was wary at first but its well worth it)

For Cutting:
Meguiar's MF Cutting Disc
Optimum MF Cutting
Surbuf (for heavy/hard corrections)

Menzerna FG400
D300


For Polishing/light correction:
LC Hydrotech: Tangerine
LC Hydrotech: Crimson
LC Flat: Black

M205
Menz SF4500 (po85rd)


Thats just what I use on my rupes, hope it helps!
 
If money were no object, why not get a GG and a flex/rupes? I personally own a PC and a Flex. Love that I have both machines. PC for delicate situations, Flex to give me that oomp.

However, if money were no object for me, I wouldn't mind getting a Rupes either. I've had a chance to play around with one and boy, is that thing smooth.
 
It's not that money is no object, I just have 2 basic objectives. Get a variety of basic tools needed to do a full detail. Once I get a good client base I can see investing in a larger variety of buffers. I'd still like to get a good steamer, a good wall mounted shop vac, an "Eco Friendly" waterless/rinseless detailing system and some good product to support the basic detail model. I figure it will be about 2500-3000 grand.
 
What kind of work do you mostly do?

Production detailing?

Show car detailing?


If you're doing production detailing, get a Flex 3401.

If you're doing show car detailing, I can do everything with a rotary buffer and DA polisher like the Porter Cable.


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
What kind of work do you mostly do?

Production detailing?

Show car detailing?


If you're doing production detailing, get a Flex 3401.

If you're doing show car detailing, I can do everything with a rotary buffer and DA polisher like the Porter Cable.


:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Mike. My main customers are production and DD types of cars. Obviously I would love to expand that and get into the show car and or the weekend cruisers.

Looks like it will be a Flex for now and after I take a couple of your classes next year, Maybe a rotary. Thanks again everyone!
 
These were all done using the Flex 3401...

The 442 is what I would call "production work" that is, one machine step and done.

The 1957 Belair was a two-step...

The Ferrari was a three-step...

The Rolls was a three-step...



How to use a one-step cleaner/wax to maximize profits


1970_442_by_Mike_Phillips.010.jpg





New Menzerna FG 400 - One-Step Show Car Makeover

1957_Belair_Mike_Phillips_003.jpg



Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf

Ferrari_P4_Detailed_by_Mike_Phillips_007.jpg



This Rolls-Royce Phantom was a 3-step using the Flex 3401 for correction and the PC for finish polishing and machine waxing...

Rolls_Royce_Phantom_detailed_by_Mike_Phillips.051.jpg



It's really all about using the right tool for the job and balancing how many steps you do for what you're charging.


:)
 
I dont have any experiance with the RUPES tools but do quite a bit of detailing on the side. If you are going to pick up the 3401 go with the longer cord and the interchangeable backing plate system. Then pick up the 5 inch Lake Country hybrid pads to go with it.

For me this is the best setup since sliced bread on the 3401. This way you have a machine more than capable of doing the grunt work and will give you the results you are after for production detailing. For soft finicky paint pick up the D/A you currently have and finish with that.
 
smack said:
If you are going to pick up the 3401 go with the longer cord and the interchangeable backing plate system. Then pick up the 5 inch Lake Country hybrid pads to go with it.

For me this is the best setup since sliced bread on the 3401.

This way you have a machine more than capable of doing the grunt work and will give you the results you are after for production detailing. For soft finicky paint pick up the D/A you currently have and finish with that.
Click to expand...


I agree 100%

Being able to match the pad size to the panel you're buffing is always the best way to go and because a lot of modern cars and especially small cars have long thin panes where on one side there's either a raised body line, pinstripe or panel edge, a 5" pad will normally let you buff on the paint while avoiding buffing on any of these areas.

The smaller pad also makes the Flex 3401 much easier to control and use and this is true of all machine but you need the adapter plate system to get the 4" backing plate so you can use the 5" Hybrid pads.

Check out these articles on the above topics...


Video: All about the FLEX-3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher

New 5" pads for 4" Backing Plate on Flex 3401

New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401

Lubricating the Felt Ring on the Flex 3401



:)
 
Sounds awesome- thanks again for the advice. Flex 3401 is sounding like the best way to go. This site is GREAT!! \m/

Just for my own SA Mike- what do you think of the Bigfoot? While right now Flex is the way to go (I'm on AG storesite as we speak LOL) is a Bigfoot a worthwhile tool to get down the road?
 
Mach1USMC said:
Sounds awesome- thanks again for the advice. Flex 3401 is sounding like the best way to go. This site is GREAT!! m/
Click to expand...

We work hard at making this detailing discussion forum number #1



Mach1USMC said:
Just for my own SA Mike- what do you think of the Bigfoot? While right now Flex is the way to go (I'm on AG storesite as we speak LOL) is a Bigfoot a worthwhile tool to get down the road?
Click to expand...

I like the Rupes Bigfoot, I posted a comparison time-lapse video here with some initial thoughts on it.

Rupes Polisher Time Lapse Video - 1955 Ford Crown Victoria

1955_Ford_Crown_Victoria_028.jpg



1955_Ford_Crown_Victoria_052.jpg



1955_Ford_Crown_Victoria_049.jpg



The Rupes is definitely a game changer when it comes to the non-forced dual action polisher category.

The Flex is a forced dual action polisher so it's really an apples to orange comparison.

One thing for sure, the Rupes "system" works very well and is well thought out.


:)
 
AeroCleanse said:
I'd go from the Rupes polisher myself.
Click to expand...


The Rupes polishers are very good for their category and a great tool to have in a person's arsenal of tools.

The OP already has a Porter Cable, the tool that started it all for the dual action category back in the early 1990's. No doubt about it, millions of cars have been buffed out with the first and now second generation PC DA Polishers.


The Flex 3401 with it's forced rotation gear drive mechanism is actually a great choice for doing production detailing, especially if a person wants speed without the chance of the pad to stop rotating.


Both are great tools but for production detailing, I would recommend the Flex 3401
It's really all about using the right tool for the job and balancing how many steps you do for what you're charging.


Now for show car work, both the Flex and the Rupes would be good choices...


Rupes Polisher Time Lapse Video - 1955 Ford Crown Victoria


Here's the time-lapse video Yancy took for me as I buffed this classic out from start to finish...

[video=youtube_share;v7FjGcMCTEg&hd=1"]RUPES 21ES Vs 15 ES time comparison Time lapse -...[/video]​


On the passenger side I used the Rupes 21 and on the driver's side I used the Rupes 15. There was about a 20 minute time savings using the larger pad, larger stroke machine over the smaller pad, smaller stroke machine but my opinion is that for most body panel designs on modern cars the 6" pad will be a better match.

This tool definitely has a lot more correction ability plus power over a traditional DA Polisher like the Porter Cable 7424XP.

I did find that when buffing a curved panel, either concave or convex, the uneven pressure applied to the face of the pad will slow down and even stop pad rotation. The key is to focus on the panel and keep the pad as flat as possible to the surface.

Production detailing is all about getting great results in the least amount of time and a gear driven, forced rotation dual action polisher that's built like a tank will get the job done.
 
At the moment I own 3 polishers that I use for different purposes. The 3 machines are, Meg gv, GG6, and the PC7424XP. The Meg is solely for my 3 inch pads to work the tighter areas where more concentration is required. The GG6 is for paintwork correction on larger surfaces. The PC7424XP is paired with a carpet brush to be used on carpets, or leather cleaning.

Having each machine ready for each task drastically improves my working time, because I don't have to keep switching out backing plates, and I can just grab each machine and get to work. This keeps everything in check and I can working efficiently and cleanly.
 
Why not getting a rotary as the second machine? You can compound using the rotary and finish with the DA, of DA by itself isn't enough for the job.
 
Kokopelli said:
Why not getting a rotary as the second machine? You can compound using the rotary and finish with the DA, of DA by itself isn't enough for the job.
Click to expand...

Because I have zero experience with a Rotary and like the safety of a DA. Just want/need something with a little more umph than a PC. When I take some of Mikes classes next year I'm sure I will have a chance to learn about rotaries.
 
Just my two cents, I'm new to a PC but not to rotary. I think IMO the PC can do a lot of things a Rotary can.

If you do color sand, you'll just have to color sand to 3000 even 5000, extra steps but since you said you like the safety of the PC (I like it also) Just stick with the pc until you get established and more experienced and when you'll definitely need a rotary for specific jobs that a PC wont be able to do then get the Rotary.

Cos with a Rotary you can do a lot of damage to the paint, to the point where the only way of repairing the damage you made would be for a new paint job for that panel. Might even have to blend into another panel. Could become very costly. And would make a very unhappy customer, even if you cover the cost the customer will still be unhappy because you can't cover the additional time you caused the customer to spend.

IMO stick with the PC and practice with that take advantage of the clutch. When you do get a Rotary, go to a junk yard and purposely "burn" the paint a lot of times till you become familiar with it, how and why you burned the paint.

A Rotary is like shaving. Add to much pressure an you cut yourself, to little and nothing will happen, you have to find the exact right amount of speed and pressure.

Then you'll have compound/polish splatter, learning how to clean it etc...

Go burn paint!!! But on junk yard spare parts not customer cars.

Just my 2 cents
 
Last edited:
i would get a rotary and start with junk panels for practice,cant imagine not haveing one when detailing for money.theres always tight spots that you cant get to with a rupes or pc.if you get a 3401 you can go down to 4 inch pads for forced rotation on non-flat areas & rotary for 3 inch
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top