Trouble Working M105

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94civicEX

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I broke my proverbial da polishing cherry this weekend with my new 7424XP.

I was working on my abused black paint. After a thorough Iron-X and claybar prep I started working the hood.

Below are the items used:

Porter Cable 7424XP
M105 on Lake Country yellow pad
M205 on Lake Country white pad
IPA wipedown
Blacklight on Lake Country black pad

While pleased with the end result, I think I should have done 2 passes with the M105, perhaps graduating to an Orange pad?

The issue was, I was tired of working the M105! I had issues with the working time and dusting. I prepped the pad with a spray of ONR diluted to clay lube and about 3 pea sized drops rubbed in to the pad. I worked 2 x 2 sections with 3 pea sized drops per section. I worked it in on speed 5 with pressure for the first 4 passes, then pulled the pressure off for the last 2.

Also, I noticed that it really brought out the rock chips! Is it possible that the M105 filled the chips and the IPA wipedown didn't get it out, or is this common after polishing?

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. I'm looking for input before moving on to the rest of the vehicle.
 
M105 is known for having a shorter working time and producing massive amounts of dust, but there is no denying that it is an effective product that produces great results.

One of the more popular "tips" is to spritz you working area with water or QD spray as you notice the M105 start to dry. This will allow you to continue to work the compound for another few passes.

I have had the best luck with M105 when mixing it with a little bit of D300 and using Meguiar's MF Cutting Pads.
 
zmcgovern45 said:
M105 is known for having a shorter working time and producing massive amounts of dust, but there is no denying that it is an effective product that produces great results.

One of the more popular "tips" is to spritz you working area with water or QD spray as you notice the M105 start to dry. This will allow you to continue to work the compound for another few passes.

I have had the best luck with M105 when mixing it with a little bit of D300 and using Meguiar's MF Cutting Pads.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. I forgot to mention that removing it was quite the chore. I added a spritz of water for removal, but took the rest off with the M205.
 
Yup, removal can be a pain if it dries on the surface... I always kept my bottle of QD handy and sprayed the surface liberally and then wiped it away easily with a damp MF towel. No need to worry about drying it perfectly since you will be following up with M205 which will get rid of any 'wiping marks' left behind.
 
I like using M105. I have seen a lot of recommendations from people using different products to extend the working time of this product. The only combo I have used that didn't result in the M105 hardening onto the paint like cement was D300. This works especially well with MF pads. Prime with D300, then add 2 small drops of M105 and 2 small drops of M105. It extends the working time and isn't impossible to remove.

58961_532411540144136_2143809870_n.jpg


M105 (used alone) is intended to cut quickly and efficiently. It isn't meant to be worked excessively long and IME as soon as it starts to dust (usually after 3-4 passes) the residue can be wiped off easily. If the product is worked too long it will dry up and become very difficult to remove.
 
zmcgovern45 said:
M105 is known for having a shorter working time and producing massive amounts of dust, but there is no denying that it is an effective product that produces great results.

One of the more popular "tips" is to spritz you working area with water or QD spray as you notice the M105 start to dry. This will allow you to continue to work the compound for another few passes.

I have had the best luck with M105 when mixing it with a little bit of D300 and using Meguiar's MF Cutting Pads.
Click to expand...
Is there any difference in spraying the working area or the polishing pad to extend working time?
 
There is a definate learning curve with M-105 :xyxthumbs:
 
So are you saying you didn't thoroughly prime the pad first? (As in completely working the 105 into the pad.)

If you just did the pea sized drops then you're buffing dry. But if you did prime the pad.... I'm *really* surprised you got 4 full section passes before it dried. Getting 6 is FAR too long to work 105. What some people thing is 'dusting' really isn't. It's just the material drying up and balling up, along with the paint it's removing. The combination of the two really builds up fairly quickly.

Now to get 105 to work longer you can use different methods. I still wouldn't work it longer than 4 section passes no matter what it's mixed with. The easiest thing, and readily available OTC is Meg's UC. Very easy to find, and works great with 105. In fact, if you prime your pad with UC then put 3 pea sized drops of 105 you should be able to work the 105 3~4 section passes each time. Once the pad is primed, and you're cleaning on the fly, you'll want to mix the 105 with UC in really small drops from then on. OR... just work the 105 for 1 ~ 2 section passes, clean on the fly, then go back.

Another thing that works is mineral oil, or baby oil. (baby oil is mineral oil... just that it smells good) ;) Tiny spritz of that and 105 will work like crazy.
 
cardaddy said:
So are you saying you didn't thoroughly prime the pad first? (As in completely working the 105 into the pad.)

If you just did the pea sized drops then you're buffing dry. But if you did prime the pad.... I'm *really* surprised you got 4 full section passes before it dried. Getting 6 is FAR too long to work 105. What some people thing is 'dusting' really isn't. It's just the material drying up and balling up, along with the paint it's removing. The combination of the two really builds up fairly quickly.

Now to get 105 to work longer you can use different methods. I still wouldn't work it longer than 4 section passes no matter what it's mixed with. The easiest thing, and readily available OTC is Meg's UC. Very easy to find, and works great with 105. In fact, if you prime your pad with UC then put 3 pea sized drops of 105 you should be able to work the 105 3~4 section passes each time. Once the pad is primed, and you're cleaning on the fly, you'll want to mix the 105 with UC in really small drops from then on. OR... just work the 105 for 1 ~ 2 section passes, clean on the fly, then go back.

Another thing that works is mineral oil, or baby oil. (baby oil is mineral oil... just that it smells good) ;) Tiny spritz of that and 105 will work like crazy.
Click to expand...

To prime the pad I gave it a spray of ONR Clay Lube and rubbed in 3 pea sized drops in to the pad.

I think part of the issue is I had expectations of working it for 6 passes. If 4 will do the trick, then I'm fine with that!

You're right about it 'balling' up.
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
I like using M105. I have seen a lot of recommendations from people using different products to extend the working time of this product. The only combo I have used that didn't result in the M105 hardening onto the paint like cement was D300. This works especially well with MF pads. Prime with D300, then add 2 small drops of M105 and 2 small drops of M105. It extends the working time and isn't impossible to remove.

58961_532411540144136_2143809870_n.jpg


M105 (used alone) is intended to cut quickly and efficiently. It isn't meant to be worked excessively long and IME as soon as it starts to dust (usually after 3-4 passes) the residue can be wiped off easily. If the product is worked too long it will dry up and become very difficult to remove.
Click to expand...

This is also my favorite way to use M105... makes it great to work with. I just kind of stumbled upon this combo when I was messing around and found that it was amazing!
 
94civicEX said:
To prime the pad I gave it a spray of ONR Clay Lube and rubbed in 3 pea sized drops in to the pad.

I think part of the issue is I had expectations of working it for 6 passes. If 4 will do the trick, then I'm fine with that!

You're right about it 'balling' up.
Click to expand...

3 pea sized drops is not enough prime for m105 to work my friend. Best if you cover the entire foam face with it to ensure that every part of the pad touching the paint has the m105 in its pores. After you prime well THEN you add 3 or 4 pea sized drops it. Mike has a good article on here where he explains priming, im sure someone here would be willing to find it for you:props: im too lazy right now
 
BlackHawk said:
3 pea sized drops is not enough prime for m105 to work my friend. Best if you cover the entire foam face with it to ensure that every part of the pad touching the paint has the m105 in its pores. After you prime well THEN you add 3 or 4 pea sized drops it. Mike has a good article on here where he explains priming, im sure someone here would be willing to find it for you:props: im too lazy right now
Click to expand...

Is it this one?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...37277-priming-your-pad-when-working-hand.html
 
94civicEX said:
Is it this one?

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...37277-priming-your-pad-when-working-hand.html
Click to expand...

No that's not it, but it's close enough. You cover the entire pad, use your finger as a squeegee and turn the pad, working it into the pad as you go. Make sure none of the pad has a dry spot, (although it can be a little dry about a dime size right in the middle). Once it's smoothed out, take your finger, or thumbs and work the pad a bit, then go over it with a flat finger again and smooth everything out.

Once THAT is done you can do the three pea sized drops.

What you ended up doing was buffing dry. Probably instilled more than your share of new scratches.

That being said... you will not get 4~6 section passes out of 105. It just cuts so fast and works differently that you either need to do 2 (maybe 3) passes, then do a "clean on the fly". Re-apply and do more passes. Keep that puppy clean and it'll do you good. ;)

Easiest way though is just prime it with Megs UC then use 105 on top. Saves a ton of headaches and gives the best of both worlds. (longer working time, combined with maximum cut)
 
cardaddy said:
No that's not it, but it's close enough. You cover the entire pad, use your finger as a squeegee and turn the pad, working it into the pad as you go. Make sure none of the pad has a dry spot, (although it can be a little dry about a dime size right in the middle). Once it's smoothed out, take your finger, or thumbs and work the pad a bit, then go over it with a flat finger again and smooth everything out.

Once THAT is done you can do the three pea sized drops.

What you ended up doing was buffing dry. Probably instilled more than your share of new scratches.

That being said... you will not get 4~6 section passes out of 105. It just cuts so fast and works differently that you either need to do 2 (maybe 3) passes, then do a "clean on the fly". Re-apply and do more passes. Keep that puppy clean and it'll do you good. ;)

Easiest way though is just prime it with Megs UC then use 105 on top. Saves a ton of headaches and gives the best of both worlds. (longer working time, combined with maximum cut)
Click to expand...

Honestly, it looked pretty good after the IPA wipedown. Just really brought out the rock chips :props:.

I'll see if I can find some UC locally, but I will likely just have to prime it with 105. I will probably strip the hood and do a properly primed orange LC with 105 again.
 
94civicEX said:
My paint was in brutal shape.

attachment.php
Click to expand...

That's probably about average. ;)
Seriously... I've seen worse. :rolleyes:

If you've got a OReilly, or Advance in your area they have it. Advance does NOT however have Ultimate Polish, for some strange reason. :dunno: Works wonders with 105 though.

Make sure to post some 'after' photos. :xyxthumbs:
 
cardaddy said:
That's probably about average. ;)
Seriously... I've seen worse. :rolleyes:

If you've got a OReilly, or Advance in your area they have it. Advance does NOT however have Ultimate Polish, for some strange reason. :dunno: Works wonders with 105 though.

Make sure to post some 'after' photos. :xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...
You're right...more or less I've never let a car of mine get in this bad of shape, lol!

FWIW, I also found this thread somewhat helpful - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-brown-method-few-other-things-explained.html

Does anyone have any comments on using the Blacklight as a LSP?
 
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