LSP stripping

•The original Auto-Clay fare has now been
adulterated into ~86 different formulations;
formulations that meet the differing designs,
purposes, and specifications of various vendors.

•For info regarding Clay bars’ ingredients:
-Their SDSs will be the Rosetta Stone
-Clay Magic’s SDSs are readily available

{In regard to Clay bars/vendors that don’t
make those SDSs readily available:
I move on.}

***************************************

NOTICE:
Since I have enough of Auto Wax’s Clay Magic
Clay bars—“the original surface preparation
Auto clay bar”—to last me a couple of lifetimes
(and, then, thereafter: my immediate heirs’
couple of lifetimes as well)...I won’t be doing
any more Auto-Clay bar SDS researching.



Bob
 
Eldorado2k said:
Still waiting on a reply...
Click to expand...

He was talking about a conventional clay bar, not a clay substitute like you pictured. I don't think anyone knows which clays have surfactants in them, but it's part of the clay bar patent, that various additives may be used to effect the performance of the clay bar.

EDIT: Oops, looks like I cross-posted with Bob...perhaps the AutoMagic or whatever the company is now SDS's DO show if they have surfactants...I would imagine that for most clays you can't get an SDS.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
He was talking about a conventional clay bar, not a clay substitute like you pictured. I don't think anyone knows which clays have surfactants in them, but it's part of the clay bar patent, that various additives may be used to effect the performance of the clay bar.
Click to expand...
Thanks... :iagree:


Bob
 
Setec Astronomy said:
He was talking about a conventional clay bar, not a clay substitute like you pictured. I don't think anyone knows which clays have surfactants in them, but it's part of the clay bar patent, that various additives may be used to effect the performance of the clay bar.
Click to expand...

I was talking about conventional clay bars as well. The only reason I brought up the clay mitt was because I had used it to decontaminate in those particular pictures and to my knowledge I’ve never heard of them containing surfactants.
 
FUNX650 said:
I won’t be doing
any more Auto-Clay bar SDS researching.



Bob
Click to expand...

...Any more? I haven’t seen you any. I simply asked for an answer to your previous statement. But it looks like you can’t provide it.
 
fightnews said:
If you take a panel and compound it then completely remove all the oils. Wax 1 side and leave the other bare. Wash it 3 times with that DuPont wax remover without cheating. Then do an IPA wipedown on both sides and I guarantee they will both bead and sheet the same.
Click to expand...

It's going to depend on the wax. With the Duplicolor Grease & Wax Remover, it's not going to be effective enough in the short term even after multiple applications. With Prep-All against Glasur, three applications on the entire panel compared to recently polished paint, and then a 15% IPA wipedown will give me very similar water behaviors - moderate sheeting rate. The difference however, is the next wash I determine how the surfaces react to the surfactants in the soap - (I used Gyeon Bathe Essence which is comparable to Reset) - the recently polished side will produce a slower sheet after this rinse compared to the Glasur side - and much noticeable slower performance compared to the previous rinse on both sides. Keep washing and rinsing with Bathe and I can still see that difference. I wasn't able to do the test against Pete's 53 today but I would expect it to show an even greater difference, probably due to whatever polymers they use in the formula that's more effective against Prep-All than what's in Glasur.

Rmd said:
So if bare paint beads/sheets water, and an LSP beads/sheets water, then what condition accounts for paint that doesn't bead/sheet water? Surfectants in the shampoo? If so, then a shampoo that leaves nothing behind like Carpro reset should always increase beading, either by leaving the LSP as the only substance on the paint, or by leaving the paint bare. Has anyone tested this? Seems like it would be interesting.
Click to expand...

I used Gyeon Bathe Essence which is similar to Reset and also doesn't have the added color dye or fragrance of the original Bathe. I polished the paint with HD Polish+ and then used a 15% IPA dilution for the polishing oils, the paint was sheeting at a moderate level on the first rinse. After Bathe Essence it still negatively impacted the surface tension and produced a slower sheet. Towel drying will bump up the water behavior on the next rinse, then wash with Bathe Essence and the sheet is back to slow after the rinse. Soap wash doesn't always decrease the surface tension, if you dissolve the residuals left behind on the paint with the soap you can bump up the behavior - this is definitely true with heavy sealants like Polymer Net Shield after the first wash in my experience. But on polished bare paint it should decrease it pretty significantly.
 
Even if you prove there is wax left on the surface how do you know it's in a high enough concentration to be an effective lap? Maybe a surface only needs minimal polymer to bead water?

Rainx could make paint bead like crazy that doesn't mean it's waxed or protected
 
Eldorado2k said:
...Any more? I haven’t seen you any.
I simply asked for an answer to your
previous statement. But it looks like
you can’t provide it.
Click to expand...
That’s right: not any more!

As I previously alluded to:
I’ve already done all of the Automotive Clay
(M)SDS researching that I’m ever going to
do. The result: Auto Magic’s Clay Bars was/is
my choice. I’ve posted their (M)SDS before.
Not even going to do that again.


It’s not that I can’t provide an answer; rather
it boils down to how much you want to do some
researching on your own accord. You have been
handed the tools to do so—I don’t believe you’ll
make it look like you don’t know how to use them.


“Give a man a fish...”


Bob
 
fightnews said:
Even if you prove there is wax left on the surface how do you know it's in a high enough concentration to be an effective lap? Maybe a surface only needs minimal polymer to bead water?

Rainx could make paint bead like crazy that doesn't mean it's waxed or protected
Click to expand...

I define protection as a product that will maintain gloss, assist in easier or more effective washes over the weeks and do so over a relatively decent period of time. So at any point during the lifetime of the LSP, when it's no longer doing these things then it's no longer effective. If Rain-X was able to wipe on and off cleanly from the paint, maintain gloss and assist in better washes for an extended time - then there would be no reason to not recommend it as a protectant.

Whether or not something has actually been stripped from the surface is gaining more relevance now because we're dealing with more coatings and sealants that claim an LSP-free surface is required to ensure a proper or maximum bond. If I'm to properly test new products, I need to be sure I'm prepping the paint to the satisfaction of the listed requirements. With strip wash products gaining in popularity, we need to know the effectiveness and limitations of their performance and whether or not they will satisfy the requirements of the new LSP without mechanically abrading the paint. When testing against a control section, I would say I can make a solid argument to prove the existence of an LSP through the differing water behaviors which could (according to the manufacturer) compromise the performance of the sealant or coating if they're applied on top of this surface.
 
@Loach. How many times would you say you’ve polished your hood to prep it for testing new products? And what exactly is your process when doing that machine polish?
 
Eldorado2k said:
@Loach. How many times would you say you’ve polished your hood to prep it for testing new products? And what exactly is your process when doing that machine polish?
Click to expand...

I'm down about 20 microns on the Honda test hood. I'd have to throw a pretty rough guess out there of in between 100-200 polishes. Using black or blue Buff and Shine finishing pad with M205, HD Polish+, Ultimate Polish, or Menzerna 3800 - light pressure and follow up with 15% IPA dilution or Eraser - Gyeon Prep.
 
Loach said:
I'm down about 20 microns on the Honda test hood. I'd have to throw a pretty rough guess out there of in between 100-200 polishes. Using black or blue Buff and Shine finishing pad with M205, HD Polish+, Ultimate Polish, or Menzerna 3800 - light pressure and follow up with 15% IPA dilution or Eraser - Gyeon Prep.
Click to expand...

How many microns did it start off with?
 
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