Flex3401vrg or Rupes Bigfoot?
- Thread starter Hazcat
- Start date
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Hi Jim,
First, great post, very well written.
Second, good talking to you on the phone the other day about about pictures and forums. It's a never ending "issue" like we discussed. I'm always going to stick to my opinion about free photos hosting sites like PhotoPost, Imageshack and Flickr because there's no such thing as a free lunch in this world. People sign up for free photo hosting sites and after they use up all their free space they start deleting old photos and that's why we always have threads with missing pictures. As people delete their pictures in their free account to make room for new pictures, everywhere they posted the URL Address to their pictures they delete the pictures are now missing.
With AutogeekOnline, each member gets a free gallery with their account and if each person will invest just a LITTLE time in self-educating themselves on how to work with pictures on the Internet then they can take advantage of their free gallery and their pictures won't ever disappear. It's really not that hard folks...
How to resize your photos before uploading to a photo gallery - Using Easy Thumbnails
How to upload a photo into your Autogeek Photo Gallery
How to insert an image from your photo gallery into your message
How to create dedicated albums in your photo gallery...
How to use Image Tags to insert a photo
I post hundreds of pictures a week, every week and use all the info in the articles I've written above to do it.
When I worked for Meguiar's, I represented one brand. Now I represent over 70 brands and growing and I like the challenge and the honor. I know a lot of guys in this world would LOVE to have this job. I try to take a professional approach and do my best to represent all the brands we carry just like I was their employee. At the same time, anything I post is honest and accurate.
I know and like both Bob Eichelberg, (President of Flex North America), just as much as I like Marco D'Inca, (an engineer for Rupes) and I see these people as well as many of the Presidents, CEO's, Chemists and Reps for all the companies and brands we carry multiple times a year, especially at SEMA and Detail Fest and it's important to hold their trust, respect and continue a business relationship at a professional level.
At the same time, I detail cars and share with others how to detail cars. So there's definitely a balancing act when it comes to repping lines and helping people but I always stay true to my passion and that's helping others to get the best results possible with the tools, pad and products they own when they are working in their garage.
I like you're summary of the "types" of tools in your posts and it's very accurate in that out of all the "types", not brands, but "types of drive mechanisms", the Flex as advantages over all of them in that it is a gear driven, forced rotation, forced oscillation tool.
I been telling everyone in my posts and in my classes, over the phone and in person, that if you get a Flex, at some point add the Lake Country XC3401 Changeable Backing Plate System.
It will allow you to put a 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401 which will then allow you to use the 5" Hybrid Pads and this combination of tool, backing plate and pads is a killer system for whatever a person is buffing on.
When a person is trying to make money as a professional detailer, you need a tool that can where the pad won't stop spinning so you can get the job done without burning or swirling the paint, the Flex 3401 does this. Plus it's truly Pro Grade. It's designed to be used in detail shops and body shops 5 days a week, 8 hours a day and not break. We all know detail shops and body shops work longer hours than this and they are hard on their tools.
The head painter at Wayne Carini's body shop for "Chasing Classic Cars" had never used a Flex 3401, ONLY a rotary buffer and he told me after I showed him how to use the Flex that he loves this tool for all the high end cars that go through their shop.
Nothing wrong with normal DA Polishers and i use them all the time, but comparing them to a Flex 3401 is like comparing apples to oranges.
My recommendation for everyone is there is no ONE single perfect tool. There are great TOOLS and just like women don't stop at the dress, they then add the shoes, the necklace, the belt, the ear rings, etc., we as guys don't need to stop a a single tool.
Start with one, then add another as your budge and time allows.
My position in the "detailing industry" is a LOT different than simply being a member on a detailing forum and over the years I've taken note of those that just don't get that little point but that's why I always stay focused on the positive. While others are arguing, I just make another car shiny and share how I did it on the forum or help others to make the car they're working on shiny.
And you'll find yourself, like me reaching for it first when you need a rotary buffer due to its compact size and lightweight.
Again, comparing the Flex PE14 to a full size rotary buffer is comparing apples to oranges, a guy needs both. I like the Flex PE14 and the DeWALT 849X, with these to rotary buffers you can tackle anything.
And there you go...
:dblthumb2:
First, great post, very well written.
Second, good talking to you on the phone the other day about about pictures and forums. It's a never ending "issue" like we discussed. I'm always going to stick to my opinion about free photos hosting sites like PhotoPost, Imageshack and Flickr because there's no such thing as a free lunch in this world. People sign up for free photo hosting sites and after they use up all their free space they start deleting old photos and that's why we always have threads with missing pictures. As people delete their pictures in their free account to make room for new pictures, everywhere they posted the URL Address to their pictures they delete the pictures are now missing.
With AutogeekOnline, each member gets a free gallery with their account and if each person will invest just a LITTLE time in self-educating themselves on how to work with pictures on the Internet then they can take advantage of their free gallery and their pictures won't ever disappear. It's really not that hard folks...
How to resize your photos before uploading to a photo gallery - Using Easy Thumbnails
How to upload a photo into your Autogeek Photo Gallery
How to insert an image from your photo gallery into your message
How to create dedicated albums in your photo gallery...
How to use Image Tags to insert a photo
I post hundreds of pictures a week, every week and use all the info in the articles I've written above to do it.
When I worked for Meguiar's, I represented one brand. Now I represent over 70 brands and growing and I like the challenge and the honor. I know a lot of guys in this world would LOVE to have this job. I try to take a professional approach and do my best to represent all the brands we carry just like I was their employee. At the same time, anything I post is honest and accurate.
I know and like both Bob Eichelberg, (President of Flex North America), just as much as I like Marco D'Inca, (an engineer for Rupes) and I see these people as well as many of the Presidents, CEO's, Chemists and Reps for all the companies and brands we carry multiple times a year, especially at SEMA and Detail Fest and it's important to hold their trust, respect and continue a business relationship at a professional level.
At the same time, I detail cars and share with others how to detail cars. So there's definitely a balancing act when it comes to repping lines and helping people but I always stay true to my passion and that's helping others to get the best results possible with the tools, pad and products they own when they are working in their garage.
I like you're summary of the "types" of tools in your posts and it's very accurate in that out of all the "types", not brands, but "types of drive mechanisms", the Flex as advantages over all of them in that it is a gear driven, forced rotation, forced oscillation tool.
I been telling everyone in my posts and in my classes, over the phone and in person, that if you get a Flex, at some point add the Lake Country XC3401 Changeable Backing Plate System.
It will allow you to put a 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401 which will then allow you to use the 5" Hybrid Pads and this combination of tool, backing plate and pads is a killer system for whatever a person is buffing on.
When a person is trying to make money as a professional detailer, you need a tool that can where the pad won't stop spinning so you can get the job done without burning or swirling the paint, the Flex 3401 does this. Plus it's truly Pro Grade. It's designed to be used in detail shops and body shops 5 days a week, 8 hours a day and not break. We all know detail shops and body shops work longer hours than this and they are hard on their tools.
The head painter at Wayne Carini's body shop for "Chasing Classic Cars" had never used a Flex 3401, ONLY a rotary buffer and he told me after I showed him how to use the Flex that he loves this tool for all the high end cars that go through their shop.
Nothing wrong with normal DA Polishers and i use them all the time, but comparing them to a Flex 3401 is like comparing apples to oranges.
My recommendation for everyone is there is no ONE single perfect tool. There are great TOOLS and just like women don't stop at the dress, they then add the shoes, the necklace, the belt, the ear rings, etc., we as guys don't need to stop a a single tool.
Start with one, then add another as your budge and time allows.
My position in the "detailing industry" is a LOT different than simply being a member on a detailing forum and over the years I've taken note of those that just don't get that little point but that's why I always stay focused on the positive. While others are arguing, I just make another car shiny and share how I did it on the forum or help others to make the car they're working on shiny.
And you'll find yourself, like me reaching for it first when you need a rotary buffer due to its compact size and lightweight.
Again, comparing the Flex PE14 to a full size rotary buffer is comparing apples to oranges, a guy needs both. I like the Flex PE14 and the DeWALT 849X, with these to rotary buffers you can tackle anything.
And there you go...
:dblthumb2:
jgg85234
New member
- Feb 21, 2013
- 267
- 0
Hi Mike:
Just want to be clear that my post, in no way, was an attempt to cast you in any kind of bad light. I am in awe of your abilities, and your ability to communicate effectively to everyone.
I should have been more detailed about why I tended to disregard your product reviews.
1. I think we could give you an electric screwdriver and a chunk of foam and you would produce magnificent results. That's the hallmark of a real pro.
2. Autogeek has elected to carry the products they do based on them being the best in class, and part of your job is to help people make a decision, without showing bias towards any given product. Every product in your roster will do what it claims it will do. It's more about different budget points for different people.
3. In addition to being a rep for all the products, you have also taken on the responsibility to help people in this forum be successful with whatever products they happen to possess. It would be really easy to respond to people and say "buy something else" to solve their issues. I have never seen you do that. Rather, you take the time to show them how to do it with whatever they own.
As someone trying to make their own decision on what to purchase, your ability to make use of any product just confuses people. At least, it did me. If I only relied on your reviews, either I would be unable to make a decision, or I would purchase one of each. If I were starting out to do this on a professional basis with a crew (or plans for one), I would definitely buy one of each, and apply a lot of metrics to decide which product(s) to use as my standard.
I read all of your reviews, but I tried to base my decision making on the information I could glean from other "mere mortals". I also put more weight behind the hobbyists, rather than the pros, as that's the experience that most relates to my situation.
For the forum audience - I certainly don't think that my post should make anyone else's decision. It's my opinion, and it worked for me. It's just one more data point in someone else's evaluation of what they should decide. I'm just another amateur in this field, trying to solve my own problems and get good results.
Jim
PS - Work got in the way over most of the weekend, so I haven't yet finished the post about how the photo stuff works.
Last edited:
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
top banana
New member
- Jun 8, 2008
- 35
- 0
Mike would the 4 3/8" Flex backing plate work well with the 5" hybrid pads?
I keep reading that the Lake Country 4" and 6" backing plate system breaks and I don't want to deal with having to get new parts sent out to me if it breaks. I know anything can break,but I would rather have a backing plate made by Flex,rather than a second hand company.
So will the 4 3/8" Flex backing plate work just as well with the 5" hybrid pads?
Evan.J
New member
- Sep 18, 2012
- 4,915
- 0
The flex BP is larger than the Velcro on the hybrid pads. After time the exposed hooks will eat away the foam on the pads.
top banana
New member
- Jun 8, 2008
- 35
- 0
Thanks. I guess I will just get 2 sets of the Lake Country backing plate system. I guess it's just like tools.You always have to have spares in case something breaks. I would hate to be in the middle of a job and the Lake Country BP system fail and I have to wait for a new part to be sent out to me.
Dan K
New member
- Aug 29, 2012
- 420
- 0
Depending on how long it takes for the pads to deteriorate from the Velcro, I wonder if it would it be worth it to spend $100 for two backing plate systems or just put the $100 towards the pads? :dunno:
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
No. The Velcro loop backing on the back of the 5" Hybrid pads is right at 4" in diameter and the factory Flex "optional" backing plate is right at 4 3/8".
So technically the pad will "attach" to the Flex 4 3/8" backing plate but it's very difficult to "center" the pad on the plate because it's simply difficult to center smaller pads on larger backing plates.
Plus then you would have backing plate material sticking out past the back of the pad, not a huge deal with the stiffer pad but the softer black pad will collaps down and around it if you are pushing too hard.
Just to note, half the Flex 3401's we have out in the training garage are outfitted with the LC adapter system and I have never had one fail. Never. We really only use the 4" backing plate out of the adapter plate system and the factory 5.5" backing plate is plenty good enough for all the popular and common 6" to 7" pads.
If it were me, I would get just one LC Backing Plate Adapter System and then get more pads.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
In my article here,
New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401
I included these pictures showing a 4" pad on the 4 3/8" backing plate, this will give you and idea of how much overhange, (reversesed of course), you will have trying to put a smaller backing on a larger backing plate.
The 4 3/8" backing plate is too large to use safely with a 4" spot repair pad
Here's the new 4" backing plate with a 4" pad
:xyxthumbs:
New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401
I included these pictures showing a 4" pad on the 4 3/8" backing plate, this will give you and idea of how much overhange, (reversesed of course), you will have trying to put a smaller backing on a larger backing plate.
The 4 3/8" backing plate is too large to use safely with a 4" spot repair pad
Here's the new 4" backing plate with a 4" pad
:xyxthumbs:
Dimetera413
New member
- Mar 23, 2013
- 87
- 0
I have the Rupes 15, 21, Flex 3401, and the Flex PE14-2. The Rupes does act weirdly on curved panels where others don't and it bothers me. I'm not applying pressure either. Seems as though whatever your buffing has to be perfectly flat for proper pad rotation. The 3401 is great, fast results and very powerful. My favorite is the PE14-2. I know it's not a DA but damn its good.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I guess all in personal preference. I owned a 3401 and once I got my Griots DA i sold my Flex as i feel it didnt add anything and I just didnt like the way it felt using it wanting to run away if not perfectly flat and felt like it was a choir to use. I just got a Rupes 15 last week and will say at first I didnt like the Rupes but after giving it a good work out and figuring out how it works. I love it. it works alot faster then my griots and takes no effort to keep it under control or any pressure. I would take my Rupes over a Flex anyday..hell I would take my Griots over a flex anyday
rmagnus
New member
- May 28, 2011
- 1,446
- 0
And that Ladys and Gentlemen is whay it's good to have choices.
You're not alone the PE14 is one sweet machine. I'm with Mike (now there a stretch, lol) if you have a DA and a RB you can tackle most anything that comes your way.
brianch
New member
- Jul 21, 2012
- 84
- 0
I am interested to see if those who complain about the Flex walking use Rotary or not.
Rotary has taught me to have a very good hand and keeping the pad perfectly flat (if you don't you will really learn what walking is)
So the FLEX shouldn't be a problem for me.
With that said i still bought the Rupes. I am treating it as a step up from the PC and GG.
The FLEX is more like if a rotary and a DA had babies thats what you would get.
It's the in between. The Rupes is still a DA. The FLEX is a FORCED DA.
My PE14 is my favorite machine. Rotary power without all the weight and size.
Rotary has taught me to have a very good hand and keeping the pad perfectly flat (if you don't you will really learn what walking is)
So the FLEX shouldn't be a problem for me.
With that said i still bought the Rupes. I am treating it as a step up from the PC and GG.
The FLEX is more like if a rotary and a DA had babies thats what you would get.
It's the in between. The Rupes is still a DA. The FLEX is a FORCED DA.
My PE14 is my favorite machine. Rotary power without all the weight and size.
El Flaco Taco
New member
- Jun 6, 2013
- 60
- 0
So why do these two machines always get compared to each other. Seems the 3401 is in a category all it's own and the Rupes in the category with GG, PC and all the other DA's. (Maybe its price point) For once I would like to hear someone ask Rupes or GG or PC.
jgg85234
New member
- Feb 21, 2013
- 267
- 0
I think that it is about the price point. When I compared them and bought the 3401, I concluded that the Rupes was in the category of DA, not Forced DA.
What I can't figure out is why no one has come up with an actual competitor for the XC3401, with forced rotation. It seems to be alone in its category.
Jim
What I can't figure out is why no one has come up with an actual competitor for the XC3401, with forced rotation. It seems to be alone in its category.
Jim
rmagnus
New member
- May 28, 2011
- 1,446
- 0
I believe the 3401 walking thing is over done. Not bragging but I can operate the 3401 one handed so it can't really be a big issue. Can I make it walk? Yep just turn it on edge. It's not really a big deal.
When my daughter first started driving she was always on the right side of her lane now with a little expierence she stays center of the lane. Same thing here just use the polisher it will become second nature.
The bottom line is all these polishers are good and it shouldn't be buy this one or that one. You need several IMO and a rotary should be one of them.
Enjoy your Rupes.
Evan.J
New member
- Sep 18, 2012
- 4,915
- 0
I think when people are asking for either the Rupes or the Flex they are looking for something that has more correction abilities than a standard DA polisher.
The Rupes gets placed in that category with the flex because of the large 21mm throw it provides. The large throw then is allowing the machine to correct faster with little to no pressure.
IMO placing the Rupes with a G110v2 GG and the PC just doesn't make sense. Yes the Rupes is a DA but its a DA on roids so to say.
The Rupes does have a learning curve when you first use it and some people with use it for the first time and think WOW does this not live up to the hype but after a few times using it and get the correct technique down they seem to change and say YEA this machine is does live up to the hype.
I know when I first had mine it was a bit strange. WHen you come from using a G110v2 where you have to place downward force on the head of the machine to the Rupes that needs none what so ever it takes some getting use to.
I say if you can find some one with either of please by all means try them out if at all possible as these are two totally different machines with two totally different techniques needs but I think a test drive will certainly help aid in your decision making in the end.
The Rupes gets placed in that category with the flex because of the large 21mm throw it provides. The large throw then is allowing the machine to correct faster with little to no pressure.
IMO placing the Rupes with a G110v2 GG and the PC just doesn't make sense. Yes the Rupes is a DA but its a DA on roids so to say.
The Rupes does have a learning curve when you first use it and some people with use it for the first time and think WOW does this not live up to the hype but after a few times using it and get the correct technique down they seem to change and say YEA this machine is does live up to the hype.
I know when I first had mine it was a bit strange. WHen you come from using a G110v2 where you have to place downward force on the head of the machine to the Rupes that needs none what so ever it takes some getting use to.
I say if you can find some one with either of please by all means try them out if at all possible as these are two totally different machines with two totally different techniques needs but I think a test drive will certainly help aid in your decision making in the end.
Bunky
Well-known member
- Jun 20, 2007
- 6,427
- 149
What I observe between a forced DA and non-forced is that the forced DA just does not like quick direction changes.
I am wondering if people are using more downward pressure to get maximum cut to get results like they do on a non-forced DA. I just try to keep it flat with some pressure, guide it, and let it do its business.
I am wondering if people are using more downward pressure to get maximum cut to get results like they do on a non-forced DA. I just try to keep it flat with some pressure, guide it, and let it do its business.