Looking for an expert to identify this paint defect

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Dorian

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Hi All,

I have been trying to find the answer to this but can't seem to find anyone who knows what this is hopefully the experts here can help. I sported five of these little "spots" two on the hood and three on the trunk lid after I did clar bar, Meg UC, Meg UP and UW. You can only see the sports at a certain angle against the light. 90% of the time they are invisible. Upon close inspection I found that the clear coat and pearl coatings seem to be perfectly consistent so I don't think it was a touch up or any kind of failure. Can bird droppings or something like that cause such a thing? Is these any way to remedy this that you know of?
 
Have you had bird dropping that sat there for long periods of time? The 2nd and 3rd picture are the side of your car?
 
hernandez.art13 said:
Have you had bird dropping that sat there for long periods of time? The 2nd and 3rd picture are the side of your car?
Click to expand...

The car is relatively new to me it is a 2000 Lexus ES300 with 60k miles. It has been garaged it's whole life and well cared for. I cannot attest to whether or not a bird dropping sat there for certain. I am just speculating as it doesn't seem to be a physical alteration but possibly chemical. I also tried cleaning it with a number of products but it definitely doesn't seem to be on the surface.
 
How can one tell the beginnings of clear coat failure without a Paint Thickness Gauge?
 
I guess it would be the beginning of clear coat failure but keep in mind that it is only visible under certain light and certain angles. 90% of the time it looks perfectly uniform.
 
Oxydation??. It may be bird bomb etching but that would be one major turd!
 
I can't really see the defect myself in those photos. I'm sure it is pretty hard to capture.
 
02xtreme07SS said:
I can't really see the defect myself in those photos. I'm sure it is pretty hard to capture.
Click to expand...

It is difficult to capture but the spots just look slightly lighter in tone than the rest of the car.
 
Get some clay and work on a little spot. Could be some overspray, especially since you said the car has been garaged it's whole life (the most part)

Had this incident happen to me and it turned it was jus over spray (it was night time and I panicked lol)

(Fingers Crossed)
 
hernandez.art13 said:
Get some clay and work on a little spot. Could be some overspray, especially since you said the car has been garaged it's whole life (the most part)

Had this incident happen to me and it turned it was jus over spray (it was night time and I panicked lol)

(Fingers Crossed)
Click to expand...


Clay bar was already done!
 
Yeah, I already clayed the car good - The surface is very clean smooth. I was thinking maybe the wax was just really crappy and uneven but cleaning the spot with IPA didn't change it either.

Here is another picture from the trunk.
 
Do you have a magnifying lens that you might be able to do a close-up inspection of the areas?
Since you mention and it appears to be lighter than the rest and only visible at angles, I wonder if it is not in the base coat, not the clear. The metal flake could actually be the result of the issue. If there was some kind of abnormality when the car was painted either at the factory or repair show that might cause the light to reflect funny off the metal flake. Just a thought.

Not sure if this helps but just adding my 2 cents.
 
zmanjohn said:
Do you have a magnifying lens that you might be able to do a close-up inspection of the areas?
Since you mention and it appears to be lighter than the rest and only visible at angles, I wonder if it is not in the base coat, not the clear. The metal flake could actually be the result of the issue. If there was some kind of abnormality when the car was painted either at the factory or repair show that might cause the light to reflect funny off the metal flake. Just a thought.

Not sure if this helps but just adding my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I don't but could prob find one to use. It is strange that they are all circular in shape as well - That is what made me think bird dropping or something that fell on the car.
 
Just to chime in...

Bird dropping etchings are either Type 1 or Type II. I have an article on this and cover this in my how-to book also. These marks don't look like either...

Two Types of Bird Dropping Etchings


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Two Types of Bird Dropping Etchings
  • Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etching
  • Type II Bird Dropping - Fractured/Wrinkled Etching

There are two common types of damage associated with bird dropping etchings;



Type I Bird Dropping - Topical Stain Etching
Type I Topical Stain Etchings are usually only topical, that is shallow enough that they can be completely removed or at least greatly improved to the point where they are difficult to see.

This type of etching can be removed using a clear coat safe compound or polish by hand or machine. Hand removal is almost always more efficient as you can exert more pressure to a small area and thus keep your work area isolated to just the affected area. By machine you can use a Spot Repair System, again to keep the work area isolated to just the affected area.

Photo courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com
M105RemoveBirdDropping002c.jpg



Type II Bird Dropping - Fractured/Wrinkled Etching
Type II Wrinkled Etchings are usually too deep to fix safely. The problem is the paint fractures, (splits apart in tiny lines,), or wrinkles as the paint swells and bunches together. In both instances, the resulting defect is throughout the clear layer of paint and not topical. Thus trying to remove it will require removing so much clear paint that you will likely expose the basecoat, or colored layer of paint which has a dull appearance. For this reason it's not safe to try to remove a Type II Bird Dropping Wrinkled or Fractured Etching.

Photo courtesy of AutogeekOnline.com
BirdDroppingEtchingWrinkles.jpg







Clearcoat failure affects the panel, not isolated small areas. It's really hard to tell from the pictures but here's what I would do,

Get some gray polish and a dark cloth and rub on top of the spot. If you pull white color or pigment then someone has rubbed through the clear and this is the "spot" you're seeing.

I have an article on this somewhere too...


:)
 
I worked at the Nissan plant in the paint department and come across things like that all the time, usually it from sanding on the prime before the paint and clear gets put on...also if someone at the plant removed a defect and burned the paint or was repairing a wet drip it could be from spot painting...hard to tell from a picture...just me thinking out loud here!
 
bobbyd1018 said:
I worked at the Nissan plant in the paint department and come across things like that all the time, usually it from sanding on the prime before the paint and clear gets put on...also if someone at the plant removed a defect and burned the paint or was repairing a wet drip it could be from spot painting...hard to tell from a picture...just me thinking out loud here!
Click to expand...

See it's stuff like this I was hoping to get info about. I suppose that could very well be the case.

Thanks for those articles Mike - I think we can rule bird droppings out.

Any other ideas?
 
We can also rule out that it is single stage paint. Lexus didn't have a straight white in 2000 on this model. They had (2) different pearl whites, both of which are tri-coat paints.

2000 Lexus ES300 Touch Up Paint - Colors for 2000 Lexus ES300

If for some reason this was a spot repair, there would be no surefire way to match the factory tri-coat exactly with the repair, whether single-stage or multi-stage. These 'could' be spot repairs.
 
That's what I was thinking, some type of spot repair. The metallic or color pigment just looks off a little compared to the other areas. Now this is coming from me just looking at a pic so I could be totally off base. Hopefully if it is some type of repair they cleared the entire panel. If not, you will eventually see the repair even worse.
 
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