Did A Test Spot - Less Than Thrilled With The Results

[BillE]

Ok, back to the pad priming and compounding stage. I watched the "Kevin Brown Method" being demonstrated and noticed that Kevin would recommend first priming the pad similar to what Mike shows in his videos, but then Kevin would take a microfiber towel and absorb some of the liquid with the towel before he began polishing.

Absolutely a great trick! I did not know that was in "The KBM" (I found 'it' [technique] by accident when it gets super humid) really helps.

Bill

 

[queens guy]

Kappy I also have a murano and I wet sanded a scratch I had and used 105 first like 8 passes and could not get all the scratches and dullness out. I then used 205 and still dull after 6-8 passes. I bought a MicoFabric cutting pad and WOW what a difference. After 2 passes with 105 I started to see the shine come back and then finished it off with MF polishing pad. It got rid of the scratches, marks and haze I had going on.
Like other people said you have to go slow.Based on what you said I DON'T think you were using too much 105, It could have been either you were going to fast or the pressure was off. I am going to wet sand my whole care in the next few weeks so wish me luck...

 

[Kappy]

Kappy I also have a murano and I wet sanded a scratch I had and used 105 first like 8 passes and could not get all the scratches and dullness out. I then used 205 and still dull after 6-8 passes. I bought a MicoFabric cutting pad and WOW what a difference. After 2 passes with 105 I started to see the shine come back and then finished it off with MF polishing pad. It got rid of the scratches, marks and haze I had going on.
Like other people said you have to go slow.Based on what you said I DON'T think you were using too much 105, It could have been either you were going to fast or the pressure was off. I am going to wet sand my whole care in the next few weeks so wish me luck...

Thanks for the feedback. This is the second post I've read this morning recommending the microfiber pads with M105 and M205. What brand of pads did you use, and did it help cut down on the dust? I still have dust on my car that I can't remove.

Good luck with the sanding. I'll be staying far away from sandpaper until I learn more of the basics, and even then think that could be a project that's a little too dangerous for me.

 

[StuDLei]

Thanks for the feedback. This is the second post I've read this morning recommending the microfiber pads with M105 and M205. What brand of pads did you use, and did it help cut down on the dust? I still have dust on my car that I can't remove.

Good luck with the sanding. I'll be staying far away from sandpaper until I learn more of the basics, and even then think that could be a project that's a little too dangerous for me.

Try using clay on the dust. Did you hose it down and wash it again? Still won't come off?

 

[Rsurfer]

Kappy I also have a murano and I wet sanded a scratch I had and used 105 first like 8 passes and could not get all the scratches and dullness out. I then used 205 and still dull after 6-8 passes. I bought a MicoFabric cutting pad and WOW what a difference. After 2 passes with 105 I started to see the shine come back and then finished it off with MF polishing pad. It got rid of the scratches, marks and haze I had going on.
Like other people said you have to go slow.Based on what you said I DON'T think you were using too much 105, It could have been either you were going to fast or the pressure was off. I am going to wet sand my whole care in the next few weeks so wish me luck...

I hope you have a paint gauge. Are you doing this by hand or machine?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

What's the best category to post a help wanted ad, for someone who wouldn't read all new posts?

Any of these would be good,

Detailing 101
Off Topic
Ask Mike Phillips

And just because all three of the above get the most traffic.

Everyone is different, most of the time I scan the "Recent Threads" on the forum homepage, if I see something I can help with I click on it.

I think others are like this also. Some people click on "new posts" on the nav bar towards the top and they will see a lot more "topics".

By posting to a busy forum you'll likely get more eyes to see it.


If you don't get any action... "bump" it.

 

[Kappy]

Try using clay on the dust. Did you hose it down and wash it again? Still won't come off?

I didn't think to try clay, but flame thrower and blow torch were nearing the top of the list of things to try next.

First thing I did this morning was an ONR wash, which, by the way, is amazingly speedy when all you're doing is washing the car, and not concerned with tires and interior. When finished, all I had to do was wash some towels and rinse out the bucket.

Except for the dust still on the hood, I don't see that I did any damage, which is always a big relief whenever power tools are involved. If anything, there might be just the slightest reduction in the amount of swirls, or it's wishful thinking on my part.

 

[Kappy]

Try using clay on the dust.

And we have our winner!

Speedy Prep Towel to the rescue, which removed about 95% of the dust.

It's so hot in the garage, and even though the car hasn't been driven in 7 hours, the lube spray is acting like it's evaporating within a few seconds after it hits the hood of the car. I kept adding spray to the hood and the prep towel but finally decided it would be better to finish in the morning when it's cooler. The part that I did looks great.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[StuDLei]

And we have our winner!

Speedy Prep Towel to the rescue, which removed about 95% of the dust.

It's so hot in the garage, and even though the car hasn't been driven in 7 hours, the lube spray is acting like it's evaporating within a few seconds after it hits the hood of the car. I kept adding spray to the hood and the prep towel but finally decided it would be better to finish in the morning when it's cooler. The part that I did looks great.

Thanks for the suggestion.

No problem. I don't understand why you're having such a hard time with "dust". Is it dust or specs of compound that got flung off of your buffer and are now dry?

 

[tuscarora dave]

That's how I learned. (Kinda they gave me a buffer wet sand paper and said good luck after a 5 minute demo, then they walked to there office, any questions I had I had to run back to the office, did a lot of running back in the beginning)

Either Way Good Luck!

Art

When I read this part of your reply it really took me back to the days of first starting out at the collision repair shop I worked at as a kid. They said, "Here's how it's done, it's fresh paint so it's like butter. Take this sand paper and bucket of soapy water and sand until the orange peel is gone, then run this rotary air buffer like this." then they just walked back to the office. :doh:

Those are good memories, and I took that walk back to their office so many times I thought they would fire me for not getting it right away. Paradoxically, that's exactly what they had hoped I would do.

 

[tuscarora dave]

When you guys are polishing with 105 and it starts to leave dry "crescent moons" behind the buffer trail, what do you do? Personally I have found it's fine to just go back over them. Maybe I am drying buffing a little bit, I don't know, but it's these "crescent moons" that are next to impossible to take off by hand sometimes. I don't worry too much about creating a flawless finish with 105 anyways, because I'm always going to use a less aggressive product afterwards.

Just wondered if people experience the same thing and if that's how they handle it?

That's exactly what I do too.

I always end a compounding work section with going once back over it to let the machine and pad do the clean up of what might be left on the paint. If going back over it still leaves residue there and I believe I've already got the correction I need, I fluff the pad with compressed air and do one more quick section pass to remove any remaining compound residue. The advent of the machine is to allow the machine to do the most work so it doesn't have to be done by hand, saving time and energy and I take full advantage of this.

I also agree with your logic that I'll be going back over it with a finer polish to bring out the most gloss, so micro-marring is something I only consider in those final polishing stages.

 

[tuscarora dave]

Except for the dust still on the hood, I don't see that I did any damage, which is always a big relief whenever power tools are involved. If anything, there might be just the slightest reduction in the amount of swirls, or it's wishful thinking on my part.

Here's another red flag "for me" that suggests that your issue is using too much product. If your ONR wash hadn't removed this dust you speak of, it's likely not dust at all but rather polish splatter that landed on the hood in a liquid state, then dried to a concrete like state throughout the time that you did the rest of the car. If this is in fact the case, (I am just speculating) your pad and abrasives are likely hyper lubricated and this is why you're not getting the correction you are after.

 

[Kappy]

No problem. I don't understand why you're having such a hard time with "dust". Is it dust or specs of compound that got flung off of your buffer and are now dry?

Here's another red flag "for me" that suggests that your issue is using too much product. If your ONR wash hadn't removed this dust you speak of, it's likely not dust at all but rather polish splatter that landed on the hood in a liquid state, then dried to a concrete like state throughout the time that you did the rest of the car. If this is in fact the case, (I am just speculating) your pad and abrasives are likely hyper lubricated and this is why you're not getting the correction you are after.

I can't imagine that I used too much product since I was very careful when applying it to the pad, but having never done this before, it's certainly possible.

As for the dust, I don't know if it was caused as much by the polishing as it was by me trying to remove the polish after it dried. There was no time between me polishing and trying to remove it since I was only working on one test spot. Again, I could be wrong, but that's what I think happened, although I could have been delirious from the heat and watching the pad spin around.

 

[StuDLei]

That's exactly what I do too.

I always end a compounding work section with going once back over it to let the machine and pad do the clean up of what might be left on the paint. If going back over it still leaves residue there and I believe I've already got the correction I need, I fluff the pad with compressed air and do one more quick section pass to remove any remaining compound residue. The advent of the machine is to allow the machine to do the most work so it doesn't have to be done by hand, saving time and energy and I take full advantage of this.

I also agree with your logic that I'll be going back over it with a finer polish to bring out the most gloss, so micro-marring is something I only consider in those final polishing stages.

Good to know; I feel better now.

I can't imagine that I used too much product since I was very careful when applying it to the pad, but having never done this before, it's certainly possible.

As for the dust, I don't know if it was caused as much by the polishing as it was by me trying to remove the polish after it dried. There was no time between me polishing and trying to remove it since I was only working on one test spot. Again, I could be wrong, but that's what I think happened, although I could have been delirious from the heat and watching the pad spin around.

It sounds like you had some of these "crescent moons" I described, but I'm not 100% sure as you haven't referenced that.

You can try IPA or use Car Pro Eraser on the spots that are hard and dry.

Or you can just compound again (might take some pressure to remove them) over the spots. You could even do this by hand. Put a little fresh compound on a towel and buff off the marks.

If they're just specs of compound, clay is probably the easiest.

 

[rmagnus]

Kappy there's lots of good stuff in this thread. My take away is you are working in too hot of an enviroment if QD evaporates off the surface right away. M105 in hot weather is very challenging.

Cool down the panel. Hose off the panel to cool it. Work in the shade and use a Brinkman to check your progress. Work early in the morning or late in the afternoon when temps drop some. Compound residue should not be that hard to take off and remove it before it drys out. Try adding a drop of baby oil to the pad. It really helps to have a pad washer to keep pads cool and clean but you can do it without. You'll have to work in smaller areas 15"X15" and make sure the compound doesn't go dry. You'll get a feel for it the more you use it and things will get easier.

Remember to do a test spot with your entire process, compound and polish keeping track of the section passes so you can repeat it for the rest of the car. If your paint is soft maybe the M105 is too aggressive.

I love M105 but feel M101 is easier to work with.

 

[Kappy]

Kappy there's lots of good stuff in this thread. My take away is you are working in too hot of an enviroment if QD evaporates off the surface right away. M105 in hot weather is very challenging.

Cool down the panel. Hose off the panel to cool it. Work in the shade and use a Brinkman to check your progress. Work early in the morning or late in the afternoon when temps drop some. Compound residue should not be that hard to take off and remove it before it drys out. Try adding a drop of baby oil to the pad. It really helps to have a pad washer to keep pads cool and clean but you can do it without. You'll have to work in smaller areas 15"X15" and make sure the compound doesn't go dry. You'll get a feel for it the more you use it and things will get easier.

Remember to do a test spot with your entire process, compound and polish keeping tract of the section passes so you can repeat it for the rest of the car. If your paint is soft maybe the M105 is too aggressive.

I love M105 but feel M101 is easier to work with.

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions.

Any polishing that I've done has been in the garage, and early in the morning when it's still relatively cool. Even so, there might have been just enough heat to make the M105 challenging.

It was only when I was trying to remove the dust that I thought it would be a good idea to go into the garage at 6:30 in the evening when the sun had been beating down on the roof all day. Perhaps not.

It's interesting that in the past 2 days I've read a few posts about M105 not working as well as someone had expected, and this is on a variety of cars with an assortment of pads.

 

[rmagnus]

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions.

Any polishing that I've done has been in the garage, and early in the morning when it's still relatively cool. Even so, there might have been just enough heat to make the M105 challenging.

It was only when I was trying to remove the dust that I thought it would be a good idea to go into the garage at 6:30 in the evening when the sun had been beating down on the roof all day. Perhaps not.

It's interesting that in the past 2 days I've read a few posts about M105 not working as well as someone had expected, and this is on a variety of cars with an assortment of pads.

M105 is a good compound but not the right choice is all cases. Soft paint doesn't really need a compound but rather a polish should suffice. Hang in there expierment with other polishes and compounds and you'll find something you like. I seem to find my fair share of hard clears to work on and M105 is mt go to compound there.

Those that don't like the Megs line so much seem to prefer Menzerna. You might look into it.

edit: Jackpot just hit my 1000 post on AGO!

 

[Kappy]

M105 is a good compound but not the right choice is all cases. Soft paint doesn't really need a compound but rather a polish should suffice. Hang in there expierment with other polishes and compounds and you'll find something you like. I seem to find my fair share of hard clears to work on and M105 is mt go to compound there.

Those that don't like the Megs line so much seem to prefer Menzerna. You might look into it.

edit: Jackpot just hit my 1000 post on AGO!

I'm temporarily putting the paint correction on hold, either until it gets a little cooler, which had been my original intention but I got anxious to experiment, or find a local detailer who wants to adopt me.

It's too bad there's not some type of sample kit with all of the various compounding/polishing products, and a variety of pads, so you could test them to see what works the best, or what you like working with the most. That way you could figure out exactly what to buy before ordering two bottle of this, and three pads of a particular color, that aren't going to work the way you expected. I realize that a kit like that would probably be cost prohibitive, but it could simplify the process, or just make it even more confusing.

 

[StuDLei]

M105 is a good compound but not the right choice is all cases. Soft paint doesn't really need a compound but rather a polish should suffice. Hang in there expierment with other polishes and compounds and you'll find something you like. I seem to find my fair share of hard clears to work on and M105 is mt go to compound there.

Those that don't like the Megs line so much seem to prefer Menzerna. You might look into it.

edit: Jackpot just hit my 1000 post on AGO!

I was going to tell you this when I saw it in another thread somewhere. Congrats!

 

[manman]

Great thread Kappy- I'll defintely be watching your progress. Reading your first post, it was almost like reading my own post from last weekend- i had the EXACT same experience as you! Disappointing first results, poor lighting in my garage, polish residue streaks driving me NUTS! hahaha. For me I originally identified my problem as using too much pressure on the DA. I corrected that, and for a little while I was using the brinkman light to check my results after every pass, and things were looking good. But the polish residue problem was bugging me so much and slowing down my progress that I eventually thought I would just ditch the light, and the streaks would either come out when I moved to the finer polish (was using wolfgang twins), or I would just wash it off at the end.

BIG MISTAKE... At some point (probably when moving from 6.5" pads to the 3" backing plate/pads), my technique went to crap again... I did the whole car with tsr, then the whole car again with the finishing glaze... looked so amazing

....in my garage

The minute I shined that light on it again- swirls /everywhere/. I think they were all added by me! I can't say the car doesn't look great- it's actually pretty hard to see them even in natural light. Bright sun probably a little easier. But to do all that work (back was killing me at the end of that weekend!) and see that under the light just killed me...

I think the level of pressure and speed people say for the larger pads probably isn't right for the smaller pads; I should have thought about that. I believe I was also probably working too wet like some have suggested. I'm gonna try it again using more of a method like some others I've seen where they just put a few drops on the pad and spread it around on the panel before working. Also need to experiment with how much pressure to use...

I think now I'm just going to do one panel at a time and make sure it's perfect. Does anyone think it's a bad idea to do the full course of work 1 panel at a time (like not just the polishing, but sealant/wax as well?) Since I don't have a lot of free time (and my wife will kill me if I keep using my whole weekend to work on the car :laughing, it might be a better plan for me to just take it slow and try to get the end-to-end process one panel at a time...