Help putting a first time DA package together

[stringboi]

I'm looking to get my first DA system, but I'm a total noob to detailing and I'm getting confused at all the choices. I just bought a brand new car and want to keep it in great condition, I also have a 2000 Grand Am that needs some help.....doing it by hand the other day was more than I bargained for.

I'm interested in the Porter Cable, but have no idea where to start with pads and products. I'd like to get something to maintain the new cars look, and spruce up the older car.....it can use some TLC.

Can someone explain what I should get and use for each car. I'd hate to add damage to the new cars finish, but I'd really like to make the older car look great. Being that I need stuff for both, for different reasons, I'm a little nervous I may do something wrong on the new car.

Someone on another forums said to use the smaller 5" pads, as they are easier to work with......is this true, and are they reusable if washed?

Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[Evan.J]

I'm looking to get my first DA system, but I'm a total noob to detailing and I'm getting confused at all the choices. I just bought a brand new car and want to keep it in great condition, I also have a 2000 Grand Am that needs some help.....doing it by hand the other day was more than I bargained for.

I'm interested in the Porter Cable, but have no idea where to start with pads and products. I'd like to get something to maintain the new cars look, and spruce up the older car.....it can use some TLC.

Can someone explain what I should get and use for each car. I'd hate to add damage to the new cars finish, but I'd really like to make the older car look great. Being that I need stuff for both, for different reasons, I'm a little nervous I may do something wrong on the new car.

Someone on another forums said to use the smaller 5" pads, as they are easier to work with......is this true, and are they reusable if washed?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Here are a few article that will greatly help you!

First things first exmine the paint!
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/38689-what-condition-paint-your-vehicles.html

Next after that here is a video on helping you pick out the right polisher
[video=youtube_share;LtrdTvnZX3I"]Part 1 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project - YouTube[/video]

Me personally I like th Groits Garage 6" polisher
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...se-right-polisher-your-detailing-project.html

Once you have done that then you want to look at claying your paint as http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum.../43190-gloss-starts-first-smooth-surface.html


When it come to picking the right products it will depend on the condtion of both. The new one might just need a polish and a sealant while the Grand Am may need a coumpound followed up by a polish then your sealant.

You cant go wrong with anything that AG has to offer. One thing you will want to do id go with the smaller 5" pads as these are much easier to use.

There are alot of things to look at but you can bet AG has what you need.

Are you able to post up some photos of both vehicles and capture the condition of the paint?
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/43192-let-there-light.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...chings-other-surface-defects-your-camera.html

 

[ski2]

You might want to consider the Griot's Garage polisher--it's the most powerful of the DAs and has a lifetime warranty well backed up by Griots excellent customer service. You'll appreciate the power when doing curved panels.

You're inclination to going with the 5.5" pads is a good one (you'll need to purchase a 5" backing plate) as you'll see better performance, they are easier to handle and they are less expensive. Even though the Griots has the power to handle the 6.5"pads IMO it's still better to get the 5.5" right from the beginning. You might also want to consider a 3.5" backing plate and some 4" pads for the tight bits on the car.

Foam pads as well as microfiber pads can be washed after use and re-used many times, but you need enough pads for each step (compounding, polishing, applying LSP) so that you don't have to stop in the middle to wash pads and wait overnight for them to dry. Usually 4 pads for heavier correction, 3-4 for polishing and 1 pad per LSP then dedicate that pad for that particular LSP.

 

[stringboi]

Well, since you both suggested the Griots, I'll strongly consider that instead! I will try to get a pic of the cars later on, theres not much sun today. But like I said my car is brand new, just got it last Monday and the paint is perfect. I'd like to maintain or improve it by giving it a great shine. The other car is a 2000 Grand Am that was neglected the past two years by the previous owner. It still has a shine to it....but there are areas with some nicks and stains we'd like to get out if possible.

Both cars are white by the way....I know, I know...boring color to detail....but damn, I love white/black cars!

 

[MarkD51]

You might want to consider the Griot's Garage polisher--it's the most powerful of the DAs and has a lifetime warranty well backed up by Griots excellent customer service. You'll appreciate the power when doing curved panels.

You're inclination to going with the 5.5" pads is a good one (you'll need to purchase a 5" backing plate) as you'll see better performance, they are easier to handle and they are less expensive. Even though the Griots has the power to handle the 6.5"pads IMO it's still better to get the 5.5" right from the beginning. You might also want to consider a 3.5" backing plate and some 4" pads for the tight bits on the car.

Foam pads as well as microfiber pads can be washed after use and re-used many times, but you need enough pads for each step (compounding, polishing, applying LSP) so that you don't have to stop in the middle to wash pads and wait overnight for them to dry. Usually 4 pads for heavier correction, 3-4 for polishing and 1 pad per LSP then dedicate that pad for that particular LSP.

Ski2's advice sounds soild to me, and perhaps the best route to go. Bang for buck, doubt you can beat the GG 6" all around, and hard to ignore the great warrantee.

Perhaps like Ski2 says, about 4 LC Orange Flat Pads, about 4-5 LC White Flat Pads, and perhaps a red pad or two for applying waxes-sealants? (the Red pads might not be necessary if you decide to hand apply paint protection products, and won't really be useful if you decide to use WOWA Sealants, or the high-tech paint coatings)

Only unless you plan on doing some heavier correction with compounds would I then think there'd be a need for the LC Yellow Pads. The Orange, and White Pads should be sufficient for average paint corrections with all the polishes that can be had.
Mark

 

[MarkD51]

To add, I have the Porter Cable DA, and am happy with it, it's a good machine IMO.

For a hobbyist to maintain their personal rides, either Porter Cable, or GG will work just fine. It will come down to a personal choice. Most seem to agree that the GG is a more powerful machine, and holds that distinction.

 

[stringboi]

Ski2's advice sounds soild to me, and perhaps the best route to go. Bang for buck, doubt you can beat the GG 6" all around, and hard to ignore the great warrantee.

Perhaps like Ski2 says, about 4 LC Orange Flat Pads, about 4-5 LC White Flat Pads, and perhaps a red pad or two for applying waxes-sealants? (the Red pads might not be necessary if you decide to hand apply paint protection products, and won't really be useful if you decide to use WOWA Sealants, or the high-tech paint coatings)

Only unless you plan on doing some heavier correction with compounds would I then think there'd be a need for the LC Yellow Pads. The Orange, and White Pads should be sufficient for average paint corrections with all the polishes that can be had.
Mark

So for my new car I would really just need to use the Reds correct? No need to use the other colors unless swirls appear?

 

[stringboi]

Here are a few article that will greatly help you!

First things first exmine the paint!
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/38689-what-condition-paint-your-vehicles.html

Next after that here is a video on helping you pick out the right polisher
Part 1 - How To Pick the Right Car Polisher for your Detail Project - YouTube

Me personally I like th Groits Garage 6" polisher
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...se-right-polisher-your-detailing-project.html

Once you have done that then you want to look at claying your paint as http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum.../43190-gloss-starts-first-smooth-surface.html


When it come to picking the right products it will depend on the condtion of both. The new one might just need a polish and a sealant while the Grand Am may need a coumpound followed up by a polish then your sealant.

You cant go wrong with anything that AG has to offer. One thing you will want to do id go with the smaller 5" pads as these are much easier to use.

There are alot of things to look at but you can bet AG has what you need.

Are you able to post up some photos of both vehicles and capture the condition of the paint?
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/43192-let-there-light.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...chings-other-surface-defects-your-camera.html

Here are a few quick pics of the problem car.....not sure what to use to get these stains out. There is one pic showing some swirls as well.

http://i.imgur.com/DBkOtXH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xua1WfP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oH3xQOI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uq8Ukar.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZpZXo6x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Z0qmyxQ.jpg

Sorry for the poor fomatting.....hope you can see the issues. Theres definitely swirls and quite a few marks and stains I cant get out....at least not yet, without knowing what to use.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Evan.J]

Here are a few quick pics of the problem car.....not sure what to use to get these stains out. There is one pic showing some swirls as well.

http://i.imgur.com/DBkOtXH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xua1WfP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oH3xQOI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uq8Ukar.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZpZXo6x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Z0qmyxQ.jpg

Sorry for the poor fomatting.....hope you can see the issues. Theres definitely swirls and quite a few marks and stains I cant get out....at least not yet, without knowing what to use.

Thanks again for your help!

Get yourself some Optimum power clean and a toothbrush along with a clay bar.

 

[MarkD51]

So for my new car I would really just need to use the Reds correct? No need to use the other colors unless swirls appear?

Hi,
If your are planning on applying waxes, or wipe on-wipe off synthetic sealants, then yes, you can either use the LC Red Pads, and I think even the Blue Pads also. Either have virtually no corrective abilities.

It's not necessary to apply protective products by machine, the only benefit of such is a time savings perhaps, and maybe a more even application, to apply thinner coats, otherwise applying a wax or sealant by hand is not going to magically make the paint look better versus hand applications.

Not sure, but at this point with the new vehicle, you may not need to do any polishing? Hard to say? In any case, with any vehicle, whether it's straight from he dealer today, or it's 50 years old, an important rule of thumb is to always use the least aggressive methods, and least aggressive products to achieve the best look of the finish. The boys all know here how important doing a "test spot" is when they go to polishing a vehicle. They start with the mildest methods, and products that they think will get the job done, and go from there.

While your new vehicle may not have a swirl upon it, the paint still may be loaded with contaminants stuck to the surface. In this case, what's more important than polishing the paint, is decontaminating the paint's surface prior to any sealers or waxes are applied.

Iron Rail Dust is a commonly found nasty on paints, as many vehicles today are shipped by rail.

After a good wash, and dry, the plastic baggie test will tell the tale of just how clean your paint is?

Use the thinnest plastic bag you can aquire, and check. Usually the cheapo Sammy baggies from the dollar store will work fine.

Most will agree, the sooner such nasties are taken off the paint, the better, and that also, any protectant paint product will then bond better, and offer better longevity.

Hope this helps.
Mark

 

[stringboi]

Hi,
If your are planning on applying waxes, or wipe on-wipe off synthetic sealants, then yes, you can either use the LC Red Pads, and I think even the Blue Pads also. Either have virtually no corrective abilities.

It's not necessary to apply protective products by machine, the only benefit of such is a time savings perhaps, and maybe a more even application, to apply thinner coats, otherwise applying a wax or sealant by hand is not going to magically make the paint look better versus hand applications.

Not sure, but at this point with the new vehicle, you may not need to do any polishing? Hard to say? In any case, with any vehicle, whether it's straight from he dealer today, or it's 50 years old, an important rule of thumb is to always use the least aggressive methods, and least aggressive products to achieve the best look of the finish. The boys all know here how important doing a "test spot" is when they go to polishing a vehicle. They start with the mildest methods, and products that they think will get the job done, and go from there.

While your new vehicle may not have a swirl upon it, the paint still may be loaded with contaminants stuck to the surface. In this case, what's more important than polishing the paint, is decontaminating the paint's surface prior to any sealers or waxes are applied.

Iron Rail Dust is a commonly found nasty on paints, as many vehicles today are shipped by rail.

After a good wash, and dry, the plastic baggie test will tell the tale of just how clean your paint is?

Use the thinnest plastic bag you can aquire, and check. Usually the cheapo Sammy baggies from the dollar store will work fine.

Most will agree, the sooner such nasties are taken off the paint, the better, and that also, any protectant paint product will then bond better, and offer better longevity.

Hope this helps.
Mark

Great info! One last question, I promise. Does washing, with a good car wash of course, alone remove previous wax and other products, or is that something you should really let naturally wear off before applying it again? And the pads your talking about are the CCS types correct?

 

[ski2]

Great info! One last question, I promise. Does washing, with a good car wash of course, alone remove previous wax and other products, or is that something you should really let naturally wear off before applying it again? And the pads your talking about are the CCS types correct?

A good car wash soap should NOT remove waxes and sealants. If you really want to remove all the wax or sealant you will need to use a paint cleaner such as the new DP cleaner or Duragloss Squeaky Clean. Dawn and other harsh soaps won't really do anything (as demonstrated by PiPUK). This is really only necessary when applying a coating or perhaps if you are moving from a wax to a sealant. Polishing will also remove the old LSP.

Regarding the pads I believe he was refering to the FLAT pads--LC or any of the others available.

 

[stringboi]

A good car wash soap should NOT remove waxes and sealants. If you really want to remove all the wax or sealant you will need to use a paint cleaner such as the new DP cleaner or Duragloss Squeaky Clean. Dawn and other harsh soaps won't really do anything (as demonstrated by PiPUK). This is really only necessary when applying a coating or perhaps if you are moving from a wax to a sealant. Polishing will also remove the old LSP.

Regarding the pads I believe he was refering to the FLAT pads--LC or any of the others available.

Ahh crap, placed an order last night....I didnt even notice there were two versions, I ordered the regular 5.5's Shouldnt be much of a difference as far as the outcome though right? I was told on the phone by them that theres just more surface area on the flats....I would imagine it would just speed things along?

Thanks again for your help guys....really appreciate it!

 

[ski2]

So which pads did you order??

 

[stringboi]

So which pads did you order??

I grabbed 3 Orange, 3 White and 2 Reds.....LC's 5.5"s I may grab a 6pack again, but wasnt too sure how often I would use the pads with a cut in them after I fix the older cars finish. For now, I was thinking what I got would be enough....I hope so =)

 

[ski2]

I grabbed 3 Orange, 3 White and 2 Reds.....LC's 5.5"s I may grab a 6pack again, but wasnt too sure how often I would use the pads with a cut in them after I fix the older cars finish. For now, I was thinking what I got would be enough....I hope so =)

CCS or Flat pads??

 

[stringboi]

CCS or Flat pads??

CCS =( They told me on the phone it already shipped when I went to make the changes...I didnt realize there were two versions when purchasing them and when I saw the flats, it was too late. They said it wont be a huge difference as far as the outcome....I'll take their word for it as they would know more than I. If you guys think Flats would still be beneficial for the future....I'l grab a few later on as well. I just wasnt too sure what the difference was between the two, other than one holding more product?

 

[MarkD51]

CCS =( They told me on the phone it already shipped when I went to make the changes...I didnt realize there were two versions when purchasing them and when I saw the flats, it was too late. They said it wont be a huge difference as far as the outcome....I'll take their word for it as they would know more than I. If you guys think Flats would still be beneficial for the future....I'l grab a few later on as well. I just wasnt too sure what the difference was between the two, other than one holding more product?

The differences between the LC CCS Smart Pads, and the LC Flat Pads, are the Flat Pads have a radiused-rounded Edge, the CCS Pads do not
.
The CCS Pads have pockets-dimples of closed cell foam, meaning that these Pads will supposedly absorb less polishes, and keep the polishes at the Pad Face, where they can be worked on the paint.

I think Mike Phillips elaborated once about some other differences between the useage of Flat Pads, versus others such as CCS, Hex Logic, and perhaps others like Convoluted Types, and what Polishes are more ideally suited for the different types.

I think Mike said, that DAT Type Polishes, meaning "Diminishing Abrasive Technology" type Polishes have their abrasive content start out in larger "Clusters", and as these types of Polishes are worked on the paint, the Clusters then begin to break down into smaller particles, and thus finish out at some working point, getiing finer, and finer as they break down, and aid perfecting the finish with less hazing at the end. This type typically has a shorter limit-time on workability.

The other type, SMAT="Super Micro Abrasive Technology" start as all evenly mllled Abrasive particles, don't break down as fast, have a longer working time, but dependent upon the abrasive particle size won't perhaps finish down like a DAT Polish.

To get to the point, I think he said that the CCS Pads, with their Dimples would thus retain the polish in those areas, not fully, or effectively permitting DAT Polishes to then fully break down, and finish down properly. Or, perhaps a better term would be "effectively".

I could be wrong about this, my memory might be a little fuzzy, as I've must've read literal 1000's of posts here within the past 6-7 month's time, but I think I have it correct.

Consider that Mike Phillips is a professional, and a top flight detailer, one of the very best, and he's taken Vehicle Care to not only an art, but as well a science.

This may not be quite that critical, as experience, a good eye, and how to work products go a long way to achieving perfection in a paint finish.

Mike thus shares his knowledge with us, so that us folks can better understand the technology, and to achieve uncompromising end results.

Again, I hope the information I've shared is correct, and can also aid you and others to some better understanding of the marriage of Pads, and Polishes.
Mark

 

[stringboi]

The differences between the LC CCS Smart Pads, and the LC Flat Pads, are the Flat Pads have a radiused-rounded Edge, the CCS Pads do not
.
The CCS Pads have pockets-dimples of closed cell foam, meaning that these Pads will supposedly absorb less polishes, and keep the polishes at the Pad Face, where they can be worked on the paint.

I think Mike Phillips elaborated once about some other differences between the useage of Flat Pads, versus others such as CCS, Hex Logic, and perhaps others like Convoluted Types, and what Polishes are more ideally suited for the different types.

I think Mike said, that DAT Type Polishes, meaning "Diminishing Abrasive Technology" type Polishes have their abrasive content start out in larger "Clusters", and as these types of Polishes are worked on the paint, the Clusters then begin to break down into smaller particles, and thus finish out at some working point, getiing finer, and finer as they break down, and aid perfecting the finish with less hazing at the end. This type typically has a shorter limit-time on workability.

The other type, SMAT="Super Micro Abrasive Technology" start as all evenly mllled Abrasive particles, don't break down as fast, have a longer working time, but dependent upon the abrasive particle size won't perhaps finish down like a DAT Polish.

To get to the point, I think he said that the CCS Pads, with their Dimples would thus retain the polish in those areas, not fully, or effectively permitting DAT Polishes to then fully break down, and finish down properly. Or, perhaps a better term would be "effectively".

I could be wrong about this, my memory might be a little fuzzy, as I've must've read literal 1000's of posts here within the past 6-7 month's time, but I think I have it correct.

Consider that Mike Phillips is a professional, and a top flight detailer, one of the very best, and he's taken Vehicle Care to not only an art, but as well a science.

This may not be quite that critical, as experience, a good eye, and how to work products go a long way to achieving perfection in a paint finish.

Mike thus shares his knowledge with us, so that us folks can better understand the technology, and to achieve uncompromising end results.

Again, I hope the information I've shared is correct, and can also aid you and others to some better understanding of the marriage of Pads, and Polishes.
Mark

So in essence, CCS types for compounds and swirl removers, Flats for Wax and Polishes....if I'm following?

 

[ski2]

So in essence, CCS types for compounds and swirl removers, Flats for Wax and Polishes....if I'm following?

No what he is saying that the CCS pads may not work as well with DAT compounds and polishes, but might be OK with SMAT compounds and polishes. DAT and SMAT are types of compounds and polishes and have nothing to do with wax or sealant.

So it's safer to use flat pads for eveything then you don't have to worry about it.

In general it seems flat pads correct more effectively as there is more pad surface in contact with the paint.