I need help! I am definitely doing something wrong!

F

fst89lx

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2013
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Some of you may have read my other thread where I was asking some questions about an order I was about to place, thread is here --> http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...te-questions-about-using-megs-nxt2-0-wax.html

Today I began correcting my paint using Wolfgang total swirl remover 3.0, on a 5.5" flat orange LC pad with a Griots Garage DA on speed 5 (I did do 2 applications of meguiars #7 before this, letting one sit overnight and another for ~8 hours). I did the hood, and 1/2 of the roof. During this time, I noticed a couple things that are troubling to me.

First, I was/am getting dusting. I have found that If I use less product I get less to no dusting but the product is quite hard to see, and almost seems to disappear after I have made just one section pass. Second, there are just a couple of spots where after I finish applying the product, I can't wipe it off with my microfiber towel, what does this mean? Last and what is bothering me the most, I appear to have "tiger stripes" in the hood, it looks like a trail of where I have moved the buffer along the paint. I cannot see these in the garage, and can only see them outside in sunlight when looking just right but they are 100% there! And of course, they will NOT show up in my pictures :( One of Mikes articles has this to say about these tiger stripes

"Tiger Stripes
A common visual defect created by machine polishing with too aggressive of pads and/or products or buffing too long on a panel is to create lighter and darker sections which are easily seen when viewed from a few feet away from the car. If a person is using a rotary buffer and running the buffer in a side to side, or front to back pattern, the effect will look like stripes in the paint. I've heard the term "Tiger Stripes" associated with this visual effect but cannot say for sure if this is an accurate term for the mistake.

The point being is that because the metal flake is in the paint you're directly buffing on top of, the potential exists to dramatically alter the appearance just by making one pass too many with your electric buffer. So when buffing on top of single stage metallic paints be very careful to avoid a Tiger Stripe effect. (I'm going to be using a very light touch for the rotary buffer step)"

I don't see the tiger stripes in the roof but maybe I just can't get the right angle on it to see them. Please if anyone has any ideas or input I would love to hear it!!! Should I use a white pad instead of the orange? (I did try this for just a small section on the hood but it didn't seem to get out all the scratches/swirls so I went to the orange) Am I using too much pressure, not enough?

Thank you!!
 
Sounds like you have some pad marring from the orange pad. Also, on single stage with metallic flake, a lot of times the flake is aluminum and a lot of abrasive compounds and polishes just aren't too good at shining up these aluminum flakes. You could be seeing where the flake has been shined up better in some areas more so than others.

I've found that polishes geared more toward metal polishing such as Poorboy's Pro Polish or any other non abrasive metal polish with a lotion consistency works very well to even out the shine of the flake in older metallic single stage paints.
 
BradsDetailing said:
Could be wrong, but did you say you put the glaze on before polishing?
Click to expand...
The glaze I'm certain was to feed the paint lots of essential oils to bring the paint system as a whole back to a healthy polish-able state before polishing.

You can read all about it in Mike Phillips' articles on single stage paints.
 
tuscarora dave said:
Sounds like you have some pad marring from the orange pad. Also, on single stage with metallic flake, a lot of times the flake is aluminum and a lot of abrasive compounds and polishes just aren't too good at shining up these aluminum flakes. You could be seeing where the flake has been shined up better in some areas more so than others.

I've found that polishes geared more toward metal polishing such as Poorboy's Pro Polish or any other non abrasive metal polish with a lotion consistency works very well to even out the shine of the flake in older metallic single stage paints.
Click to expand...

I'm saying it could be either of these things, or both. I'd recommend using your finish glaze with the softest foam pad you have to try to clear this up, polishing from north to south, then from east to west to be sure you get as even as possible polishing patterns.

If this doesn't work out, I'd suggest getting some Pro Polish before continuing on with this project.
 
Yes, Glaze first was to feed oils to the paint.

My paint is NON metallic, I was just quoting Mikes article about tiger striping.

I actually did get some pics of what I was talking about! I guess what the viewfinder on the camera shows and what they actually look like when you put them on your computer are two different things. Give me a few mins to upload them and post them here.
 
tiger_stripe_2.jpg
[/IMG]
tiger_stripe.jpg
[/IMG]
cantwipeoff.png


First two pictures show the "tiger striping". I could not capture all of it but that is some of it. The last one shows a spot of wg tsr 3.0 that I can't wipe off w/ a microfiber.

Please disregard how terrible it looks directly around the taped off hood pin area. I'm going to be doing that by hand, and the paint is extremely beat up from removing and inserting the hood pins.
 
A video that I recently watched on youtube suggested to use a bathroom scale to gauge how much pressure you are putting on the polisher. I used a 5lb weight to simulate the polisher and then I pressed down on it trying to simulate how hard I was pressing on the polisher. I appear to be using ~25lbs, maybe more... Could this have contributed to the problem that I am having?

Tuscarora dave, you say " I'd recommend using your finish glaze with the softest foam pad you have to try to clear this up, polishing from north to south, then from east to west to be sure you get as even as possible polishing patterns."

If I was in fact using way too much pressure, should I still try to use the finish glaze and soft pad to correct this or go 1 pad softer than I was using (white in this case) and use the appropriate pressure with tsr 3.0 first?
 
your leaving the product in the paint.
You have to work it more.

section pass, it's just a pass. As in; Left to right is one pass. "I did 12 passes" not stupid "sectional" pass crap. "I did 12 sectional passes", really?
Sorry to rant but I'm hatting this crap.
 
I wouldn't worry about the lbs of pressure, why? It overcomplicates it, having 5 lbs of pressure or having 17 lbs of pressure is impossible to keep track of exactly and you may end up focusing too much on it instead of how the paint is reacting to it. Just mark your backing plate with line using a sharpie. Use enough pressure to slow it so it turns 1 rotation per second. See how that works, adjust your pressure to see which gives the best results.
 
fst89lx said:
A video that I recently watched on youtube suggested to use a bathroom scale to gauge how much pressure you are putting on the polisher. I used a 5lb weight to simulate the polisher and then I pressed down on it trying to simulate how hard I was pressing on the polisher. I appear to be using ~25lbs, maybe more... Could this have contributed to the problem that I am having?

Tuscarora dave, you say " I'd recommend using your finish glaze with the softest foam pad you have to try to clear this up, polishing from north to south, then from east to west to be sure you get as even as possible polishing patterns."

If I was in fact using way too much pressure, should I still try to use the finish glaze and soft pad to correct this or go 1 pad softer than I was using (white in this case) and use the appropriate pressure with tsr 3.0 first?
Click to expand...
Looking at the photos it looks like you trying to polish too large of an area at once and you may not be polishing for long enough, leaving too much product behind when you stopped polishing.

I'm not sure how I got to thinking you had metallic SS paint.

Try shrinking your work sections down in size and work them until the product disappears. SS paint can be tricky to work with and often times you need to try several different approaches until you find something that works well. Trial and error for sure.

I'd suggest using the white pad and see how that works, if you aren't getting the correction you're looking for but the finish is glossy using the white pad then you know it will finish nicely and you can go back to the orange pad for more cut before doing a final polishing.
 
Detailing by M said:
section pass, it's just a pass. As in; Left to right is one pass. "I did 12 passes" not stupid "sectional" pass crap. "I did 12 sectional passes", really?
Sorry to rant but I'm hatting this crap.
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say here?
 
fst89lx said:
I appear to be using ~25lbs, maybe more... Could this have contributed to the problem that I am having?
Click to expand...

If your backing plate was still rotating I doubt the pressure was a factor, more likely too fast an arm travel speed and not working the product long enough in a small enough work section. Looks like the abrasives are not being broken down before you stopped polishing. If my memory serves me, that compound is DAT and SMAT mixed so it needs to be broken down properly and working in such a large work section isn't doing it.
 
Detailing by M said:
your leaving the product in the paint.
You have to work it more.

section pass, it's just a pass. As in; Left to right is one pass. "I did 12 passes" not stupid "sectional" pass crap. "I did 12 sectional passes", really?
Sorry to rant but I'm hatting this crap.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will work it in some more. Also, it seems like most people on here use "section pass". That was the way I was keeping track of it as I was polishing, I was only doing 4 section passes (sorry I know you said you don't like that term) because it looked to me like the product was disappearing on the surface, and I thought more passes would be bad. Perhaps the lighting in the garage was not good enough.

af90 said:
I wouldn't worry about the lbs of pressure, why? It overcomplicates it, having 5 lbs of pressure or having 17 lbs of pressure is impossible to keep track of exactly and you may end up focusing too much on it instead of how the paint is reacting to it. Just mark your backing plate with line using a sharpie. Use enough pressure to slow it so it turns 1 rotation per second. See how that works, adjust your pressure to see which gives the best results.
Click to expand...

I have marked the backer w/ a sharpie and it was rotating almost all the time. The hood has a rise in the middle, and the only time the pad would spin really slow or almost stop is when the edge would come into contact with with this rise.

tuscarora dave said:
Looking at the photos it looks like you trying to polish too large of an area at once and you may not be polishing for long enough, leaving too much product behind when you stopped polishing.

I'm not sure how I got to thinking you had metallic SS paint.

Try shrinking your work sections down in size and work them until the product disappears. SS paint can be tricky to work with and often times you need to try several different approaches until you find something that works well. Trial and error for sure.

I'd suggest using the white pad and see how that works, if you aren't getting the correction you're looking for but the finish is glossy using the white pad then you know it will finish nicely and you can go back to the orange pad for more cut before doing a final polishing.
Click to expand...

I will work smaller sections. I tried to keep them like 18x18 but I think once I got the machine going, I lost track and started to do too much. I will try the white pad again (tried it once but didn't think it was doing a good enough job but it was my first time ever using a machine so what do I know lol) and see how it turns out. Even with using the orange pad, the paint is very glossy (compared to what it was before I started) so I'm sure that once I get the technique figured out, and finish it off with the finishing glaze it'll look great!

tuscarora dave said:
If your backing plate was still rotating I doubt the pressure was a factor, more likely too fast an arm travel speed and not working the product long enough in a small enough work section. Looks like the abrasives are not being broken down before you stopped polishing. If my memory serves me, that compound is DAT and SMAT mixed so it needs to be broken down properly and working in such a large work section isn't doing it.
Click to expand...

Yes it was still rotating, almost all the time except when the edge would contact a surface (see above quote to af90)

Thank to everyone for their input, I will give this a shot again tomorrow after I get out of work and see how I do!
 
I worked on the car some more today after work. By the time I started, I only had ~1 hour of usable natural light before the sun was behind all the tall trees at our house (I live off the road quite a bit with tons of tall trees everywhere)

I re-did the entire hood with tsr and a white flat lc pad. I worked each section for ~6 section passes each this time, and I think I got all of those "stripes" out of the hood. I moved on to the roof, doing just the passenger side half, and then on to the trunk lid. All of this took close to 3 hours lol so I think I am moving slowly enough.

I have a theory on what is happening, hear me out and tell me if I am crazy. Could the striping effect have been caused by the paint being so badly oxidized that I just had to work it twice to remove enough "dead" paint?

When I rolled the car out of the garage today to check my 2nd attempt on the hood, I noticed that on the roof where I had already buffed yesterday had the same striping effect going on in spots so I polished that again and they seem to be gone or much improved (lost the natural light so I was going off my garage lighting and looking at every possible angle I could) I moved on to the trunk lid, did a section and sure enough I had the stripes, hit it again and they appear to be gone. I broke the trunk lid up into 3 sections and each one had some striping that a second polishing seemed to take care of.

Tomorrow I will have time to do the doors which are NOT oxidized and see if those stripes appear.
 
Well I am very curious to see what mike will say about this but my gut feeling is that you are using an approach that is too agressive. Single Stage paints are soft, especially if you soaked it with glaze. My guess is that less pressure, and a softer pad (white maybe) would give you better results. But I am not talking from experience so take what I say with a grain of salt. Mike will definatelly have answers for you though.
 
Calendyr said:
Well I am very curious to see what mike will say about this but my gut feeling is that you are using an approach that is too agressive. Single Stage paints are soft, especially if you soaked it with glaze. My guess is that less pressure, and a softer pad (white maybe) would give you better results. But I am not talking from experience so take what I say with a grain of salt. Mike will definatelly have answers for you though.
Click to expand...

Well, I started off with the orange pad. But as I said in my last post, I am now using the white. I actually believe that I may be not aggressive enough. I think that the striping I saw was still oxidation in the paint. I am thinking that a heaver compound would be better suited to this job but since I have already done as much as I have with what I have, I will stick with it for now. Maybe next year I'll hit it again. I just don't know how much paint is on the car, I'd hate to remove too much material and then need a re-spray.

Keep in mind that I started with this


Of course that is the only pic of the hood I have and its not in the best light, but it is quite oxidized. This roof pic shows it better.


and wouldn't you know it? Today, I get home and its nothing but shade everywhere so I can't see anything lol. I think that I am just going to have to bang this out on saturday, start early and just work until it is done. Much better than doing it piecemeal day by day.

And yes, I would LOVE to hear what mike would say about this.
 
This stuff takes lots of practice and it seems that you have taken a big step in the right direction. Every time I get an oxidized single stage car like that, I have to go through the steps you've described until I figure it out. Seems like you're just taking the normal steps to figuring it out. Keep up the good work and you'll get there.

Another thing to think about is that you have red paint, oxidation and product trailing behind your pad and if it's drying before you wipe it off it may just be hard to wipe off. Try working with a little more product in a small area and wipe off the excess imediately after doing youur section pass.
 
tuscarora dave said:
This stuff takes lots of practice and it seems that you have taken a big step in the right direction. Every time I get an oxidized single stage car like that, I have to go through the steps you've described until I figure it out. Seems like you're just taking the normal steps to figuring it out. Keep up the good work and you'll get there.

Another thing to think about is that you have red paint, oxidation and product trailing behind your pad and if it's drying before you wipe it off it may just be hard to wipe off. Try working with a little more product in a small area and wipe off the excess imediately after doing youur section pass.
Click to expand...

Yea, I am realizing that it's a process and sometimes you can't just say use product x/y/z and have it come out perfect the first time.

I get the car outside in sunlight today and checked it out real quick. The stripes/trails are gone in the hood, roof, and trunk. There are still a couple of small spots of oxidation present, but I think that I am going to leave them alone. The paint is NEVER going to be perfect on this car, that would require wetsanding the entire car lol, and I don't want to compound the car umpteen times right now. It already looks 100x better, and I am thinking that the finishing glaze, and sealant will mask those well. I may do another coat of #7 before I put on the sealant as too, I don't know yet.

I'm thinking that the paint is so dry in spots that its absorbing and drying out the product causing the dusting that I am getting (dust is coming out red). Also maybe that's why the product appears to disappear quickly sometimes when I am polishing (sometimes as quickly as 2-3 section passes in it looks like its totally gone.)

I hope to have everything wrapped up by the end of the weekend, and I'll post up some before/afters and see how I did!

I try to buff asap. I keep my microfiber handy and when I am done, I hold the machine in my left hand while I buff w/ my right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top