coatings useless or fantastic? what do you think??

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I just ordered my first coating (gloss coat). And I am just a hobbyist, up until now all I have used are sealants and waxes. Waxes seem to offer great looks but the durability is substandard, PNS I loved but I am just looking to add some more longevity as free time for me is a rare occurrence. Odds are at some point I will top my new coating with something whether it be PNS or Hydr02, just because I have them on hand and would like to see if it improves the coating in anyway. Either way to each their own and happy detailing!!
 
Is it difficult polishing off the coating. Or is only intended to be polished off at the end of its life. What I don't understand is how coatings deteriorate. I watched a YouTube video on how it hardens to a glass or plastic. Whatever it is. Is it not quite as hard as clear coat? I would think that if the clear is protected it shouldn't fail so if a coating is protected why would that eventually fail?

This is one of the things that we have learned. I don't know what others are using as their base tech but our coating is permanent. That isn't 2 year or 4 years, that means we cannot get it off again. Ok, that is going too far but, practically speaking, it is dangerous to remove. Try and take it off and you can end up messing up the paint, such is the level of abrasion necessary. You practically need to wet sand it. I have heard some reports that some other product might behave in a similar way but that this information is being kept out of the wider public view - not sure I believe this.

In any case, this may also prompt you to ask why so many coatings actually last for such a short time?
 
Colour me curious, as a normal search doesn't turn it up, but would you care to tell me for whom you work (and who sells this coating)?
 
This is one of the things that we have learned. I don't know what others are using as their base tech but our coating is permanent. That isn't 2 year or 4 years, that means we cannot get it off again. Ok, that is going too far but, practically speaking, it is dangerous to remove. Try and take it off and you can end up messing up the paint, such is the level of abrasion necessary. You practically need to wet sand it. I have heard some reports that some other product might behave in a similar way but that this information is being kept out of the wider public view - not sure I believe this.

In any case, this may also prompt you to ask why so many coatings actually last for such a short time?
Which coating is this?
 
This is one of the things that we have learned. I don't know what others are using as their base tech but our coating is permanent. That isn't 2 year or 4 years, that means we cannot get it off again. Ok, that is going too far but, practically speaking, it is dangerous to remove. Try and take it off and you can end up messing up the paint, such is the level of abrasion necessary. You practically need to wet sand it. I have heard some reports that some other product might behave in a similar way but that this information is being kept out of the wider public view - not sure I believe this.

In any case, this may also prompt you to ask why so many coatings actually last for such a short time?

There is so permanent coatings so not sure what coating he is talking about.
 
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Colour me curious, as a normal search doesn't turn it up, but would you care to tell me for whom you work (and who sells this coating)?

The company I work for is a base manufacturer, think of us as the guys who would potentially supply many of the brands on the retail market. As such, we do not supply directly to retail, under an own brand, because we are unwilling to compete with our own customer base (unlike some of our competition), so our identity won't help you! Confidentiality means I could not tell you any of our customers.

In practice, our coating really does not get sold into detailing circles. It would get most use in public transport where it increases the lifetime of the finish when exposed to the normal sort of vandalisation which occurs.
 
I looked back. You mentioned the weather. We got pretty lucky with the weather when we were there. It was beautiful
 
It has been a pretty good year so far, good tourist weather. We were on honeymoon over to you guys during the only really bad weather!
 
Congrats on the nuptials!

I understand now. So what do you use on your personal cars?
 
The company I work for is a base manufacturer, think of us as the guys who would potentially supply many of the brands on the retail market. As such, we do not supply directly to retail, under an own brand, because we are unwilling to compete with our own customer base (unlike some of our competition), so our identity won't help you! Confidentiality means I could not tell you any of our customers.

In practice, our coating really does not get sold into detailing circles. It would get most use in public transport where it increases the lifetime of the finish when exposed to the normal sort of vandalisation which occurs.

ahh, ok, very nice! finally someone who truly understands the concept of permanent vs. sacrificial...right?? :)

i've tried to explain in the past that coating industries have terminology, based on standards and behavior during standardized tests, that give products their description and/or rating.

some coating companies in our market might use their marketing department to make that up...and i am confident some use real, quantifiable information to give their products "ratings". detailing is a standard-less little tiny niche compared to the paint and coating industry. i am not sure how many people branding coatings in this market are doing various standardized tests to gauge claims.
 
Ceramic Pro 9H claims Permanent if you bring it in for the annual check-up

5 years if you don't

Reading the specifics of the warranty are interesting, what it does and does not cover

Most importantly, any damage to the coating must be reported within 30 days
 
Congrats on the nuptials!

I understand now. So what do you use on your personal cars?

I use high tech sealants. I am forever wanting to try things out so coatings are just a pain for me.
 
Ceramic Pro 9H claims Permanent if you bring it in for the annual check-up

5 years if you don't

Reading the specifics of the warranty are interesting, what it does and does not cover

Most importantly, any damage to the coating must be reported within 30 days

I normally try and stay out of those discussions because there are too many variables associated with the longevity of coatings HOWEVER I would like to offer a tid bit of my chemistry background to the conversation.

Without making this conversion too technical (so please assume that in order to simplify my answer that some technicality have been ignored), I will offer that in the world of chemistry that 2 main basic bond exists:

1) Ionic (weak covalent, if you want to be technical)
2) Covalent

A chemical bond is defined as: a mutual attraction between two atoms resulting from a redistribution of their outer electrons.

An ionic bond is formed when one atom accepts or donates one or more of its valence electrons to another atom. That makes them electrostatically attracted together. This bond can be easily broken by any other atoms which have greater electronegativity. A covalent bond on the other hand is formed when atoms share valence electrons, which makes this bond much harder to break, and barring exposure to those elements of disruption, this bond is stable and considered "permanent".

The coating technology I know most about is the Quartz technology (since I am a Finest installer, and researched this technology more extensively). Although other coating technology exist (resin based etc..) the basic chemistry still applies although they may differ little in their chemical reactions. In the CQuartz technology, the Si (silicon) in suspension gets delivered to the paint (or other substrate) where its carrier agents (solution) is allowed to evaporate. As it evaporates the Si atoms will try and find chemical stability and will readily pair with O (oxygen) to create the stable covalent molecule of SiO2 (aka. silicon dioxide). This nano-size molecule bonds to other molecule to form a matrix, which fills all those little imperfections in the paint, creating a layer thickness of 1-3 micron in thickness. So far because we are talking about a covalent chemical bond I am in complete sync with all those companies that claim "permanency". Barring any mechanical or chemical disruption of the matrix, you will have a substance that will technically last FOREVER.

Here is a advertising picture I created to promote my business, and CQuartz Finest which may give you a visual of what I am talking about.

10499486_746096158786094_7066830013593314262_o.jpg


Where my brain do find objection in those marketing "shenanigans" of using the word PERMANENT stems in the fact that the bond that the matrix forms with the clear coat is an IONIC bond. There are no reagents in the clear coat (which is a stable matrix on its own) that will react to create a COVALENT bond with the nano-ceramic matrix. So please do yourself a favor and stop believing the hype. The only reason the CQuartz coating matrix stays in place is because you have a mechanical interlocking of the 2 structures, and a WEAK ionic bond (attraction) between the two matrix. AND this is REGARDLESS if you bring it in for regular checkups!!:nomore:

Clear coats are applied to base coat paint in the same way. They do NOT make a covalent bond and that is a reason why manufacturers don't put a "Permenant" label on their clear coats. Have you ever seen clear coat failure and complete delamination of the clear coat from the base coat?

delamination3.jpg


Now in a perfect environment with no harsh UV rays, acid rain, exposure to industrial spraying, solvents, or contact with non-pH neutral solutions etc... than EVERY coating is permanent. But have you ever tested the pH of road grime, which we all get on vehicles!?!? Do you even know what that road grime is?? Simple answer, in most part it is a mix of engine, transmission, gear oil and other petroleum based products, mixed with contaminated soil and run off water from Lord knows where containing Lord knows what. In other words, definitely not a pH neutral mixture, but more a mixture of earth products and petroleum SOLVENTS!

Next time you are riding in the sunset with your honey and see this darkened area of pavement in the center of your lane remember that it is this road grime mixture I've spoke of and be afraid, be very afraid!!!

o-ROAD-TRIP-facebook.jpg
 
Especially the first 15 minutes of rain! This thread really has me thinking, thanks to everone who's contributed solid info:thumbup:

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my brain do find objection in those marketing "shenanigans" of using the word PERMANENT stems in the fact that the bond that the matrix forms with the clear coat is an IONIC bond. There are no reagents in the clear coat (which is a stable matrix on its own) that will react to create a COVALENT bond with the nano-ceramic matrix. So please do yourself a favor and stop believing the hype. The only reason the CQuartz coating matrix stays in place is because you have a mechanical interlocking of the 2 structures, and a WEAK ionic bond (attraction) between the two matrix. AND this is REGARDLESS if you bring it in for regular checkups!!:nomore:

thanks for coming in here. i know you prefaced this stating your familiarity with CQ. thus i want to clarify re: quoted, are you saying all current paint coatings form ionic vs. covalent bonds?
 
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