Corporate Aircraft

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JetA

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I am the Line Service Supervisor for a corporate aviation fleet. We recently took delivery of a new aircraft. Having a new aircraft in the hangar really shows the poor condition of the paint on our other aircraft. The older aircraft are around five years old. They have never been polished or waxed. I recently purchased Flex DA polishers. I was wondering what clay, compounds, polishes, waxes would be recommended for use on Gulfstream aircraft.
 
Considering all the FAA regulations regarding everything from how to paint to corrosion potential, etc I'd check with what the plane manufacturer recommends before a bunch of polishing nerds on the internet. Just saying. I'm thinking on the polishing part the last thing I want to be in is a plane that has abrasives in the panel joints :)
 
Setec Astronomy said:
We actually have quite a number of pro members who work on aircraft, not sure they should be characterized as "polishing nerds".

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/86239-citation-cj3-jet-detail.html
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Yes, and of course their opinion would be of more merit than the manufacturer? I think not. I would be remiss to say ANY recommendation off of some internet forum would carry less weight than a manufacturer, especially where Federal regulations may be in play. And who's to say that I couldn't take pictures of a dirty plane and claim it as detailed by me? Because it's on the internet does not make it true.

Fyi, "Polishing Nerd" was not meant in a derogatory sense.
 
Ccrew said:
Yes, and of course their opinion would be of more merit than the manufacturer? I think not. I would be remiss to say ANY recommendation off of some internet forum would carry less weight than a manufacturer, especially where Federal regulations may be in play. And who's to say that I couldn't take pictures of a dirty plane and claim it as detailed by me? Because it's on the internet does not make it true.
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Wow, I guess the whole premise of this forum must be stupid, all the members should just go to the glove compartment of their vehicle and look at what the mfr. says about car care.

I also think you are overthinking/overstating the FAA's involvement in how operators clean and maintain their aircraft.

As far as that last comment, I don't know what to say, I think you just insulted Anthony (whose thread I linked), as well as detailers like Jose Fernandez ( http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/89646-wow-amazing-mustang-over-1400-horsepower.html ) and Bates Detailing ( http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...iling-video-bates-detailing-nashville-tn.html )
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I also think you are overthinking/overstating the FAA's involvement in how operators clean and maintain their aircraft.
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I don't.

"In addition, a typical program may also include a more in depth inspection of the exterior of a plane every 12-17 months to detect corrosion and cracks that are not visible to the naked eye using special technology. For this reason, many of the aircraft maintenance products used to repair, clean or polish an aircraft must be FAA-approved or certified for airline use"
 
Ok, where's the list of approved products?

PS The FAA must be doing a pretty bad job of enforcing or training for this kind of thing if the OP, who is a "Line Service Supervisor for a corporate aviation fleet" is here asking the question instead of going to the aircraft mfr. or simply going to the FAA's approved list of products to "repair, clean, or polish".

We had this little thing that started 35 years ago...it's called "deregulation". But even back in the regulated days there were no "polish police" roaming around hangars or ramps.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Ok, where's the list of approved products?
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Don't know and didn't bother to look. Here's a guess. Call the manufacturer of the plane because they know what it's made of and what it's painted with. Which was my recommendation now wasn't it?. But nooooooooo
 
Ccrew said:
Don't know and didn't bother to look. Here's a guess. Call the manufacturer of the plane because they know what it's made of and what it's painted with. Which was my recommendation now wasn't it?. But nooooooooo
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Why aren't you telling every poster to do the same thing with their automobile? When an aircraft leaves the factory it is rarely maintained by the factory. Just like an automobile, an aircraft departs into a world where it is serviced and maintained by a large aftermarket only loosely supervised by the manufacturer and regulatory agencies.

If you think differently, then you probably also think that taking knitting needles away from old ladies makes air travel safer.
 
JetA said:
I am the Line Service Supervisor for a corporate aviation fleet. We recently took delivery of a new aircraft. Having a new aircraft in the hangar really shows the poor condition of the paint on our other aircraft. The older aircraft are around five years old. They have never been polished or waxed. I recently purchased Flex DA polishers. I was wondering what clay, compounds, polishes, waxes would be recommended for use on Gulfstream aircraft.
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I would skip the clay and go with a Speedy Prep towel

Compound: Meguiars M100

Polish: Meguiars M205

Wax: Collinite 845 Insulator Wax

Probably should get a rotary polisher (wool pad) for the really rough ones
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Just like an automobile, an aircraft departs into a world where it is serviced and maintained by a large aftermarket only loosely supervised by the manufacturer and regulatory agencies.
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Wow. You really have no clue do you? A car mechanically can be worked on by any clueless person, even astronomers.

I suggest you go look at the FAA licenses needed to do an annual on a plane. Heck, even an airframe mechanic can't work on a powerplant. There's not a cottage industry of letting people that have no clue work on planes and it isn't true because you say so. You get caught you don't fly. You hurt someone you'll be lucky to not go to jail. https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/

And notice that link, I can even look up your licenses so there's no "Because I say so"
 
I was an aircraft crew chief in the USAF for 6 years.

FAA Requirements for Aircraft Exterior Cleaning

Washing, waxing & polishing are preventive maintenance items listed under FAR part 43, appendix A, section C, paragraphs 9 & 10, and also under FAR 1.1 (preventive maintenance).

You'll find the "Aircraft Cleaning" listed as Preventative Maintenance in the A&P handbook which outlines what Preventive Maintenance is: A&P handbook Ch. 6-19 thru 6-25. Both interior cleaning and exterior cleaning are listed!


The FAA requires that all preventive maintenance items for FAR 91, 121 and 135 operators need to be completed and singed off by a certified A&P mechanic for approval to return to service in compliance of FAR part 43.3.
You will also find aircraft exterior cleaning as a maintenance procedure listed in your aircraft manufactures maintenance manuals. Again, any procedures listed in your maintenance manual needs to be accomplished by an A&P mechanic along with a logbook signature.

The only difference when cleaning part 91 vs. 135/121 aircraft is the pilot/owner can perform the work (only on their own a/c) but the FAA does not allow for anyone else to perform the work unless they hold an A&P / AMT certificate.

Don't let the local FAA down your aircraft because you used an auto detailer! Use professional A&P mechanics... It's a federal law!
 
Ccrew said:
Wow. You really have no clue do you? A car mechanically can be worked on by any clueless person, even astronomers.https://
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Have you ever worked on an aircraft? At an airport? Remotely associated with the industry?

Your clueless auto industry is also heavily regulated, including penalties ( http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+Releases/2015/nhtsa-fiat-chrysler-enforcement-action-07262015 ) . Auto mechanics are usually certified: https://www.ase.com/Home.aspx

Your faith in the FAA is amusing, however the reality is a little different than you imagine. If not, how do you explain the child working on the aircraft in the first thread I linked? You'd better get his license number so we can get his ticket pulled if he uses the wrong polish...at the very least we can get his father's airplane polishing license revoked...if there was such a thing...

Welcome to the friendly skies...
 
custmsprty said:
Don't let the local FAA down your aircraft because you used an auto detailer! Use professional A&P mechanics... It's a federal law!
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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, sporty...I don't know if they still require you to silk and dope to get your license, but nobody licensed is polishing airplanes...are you kidding?? "Forget that C check...I'm trying to get these swirls out!"

PS Did you have any civil experience after USAF?
 
OP, If you indeed take up the job I wish you the best. Be sure to post up some pictures. And HAVE FUN:xyxthumbs:
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, sporty...I don't know if they still require you to silk and dope to get your license, but nobody licensed is polishing airplanes...are you kidding?? "Forget that C check...I'm trying to get these swirls out!"

PS Did you have any civil experience after USAF?
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That's off of an aircraft detailing services web set. And no I had no interest into getting into the civilian aviation industry after I left the Air Force.

As you pointed out, their are likely quite a few airplanes detailed that aren't done by A&P Certified mechanics. It's obviously a slippery slope.
 
custmsprty said:
That's off of an aircraft detailing services web site.
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Oh, now I understand.

custmsprty said:
As you pointed out, their are likely quite a few airplanes detailed that aren't done by A&P Certified mechanics. It's obviously a slippery slope.
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I don't know how slippery, or how different any of this is from you wrangling 18 year olds as a crew chief. A&P tasks can be delegated to a non-licensed mechanic under his supervision.

I have used a home HVAC company that has both electrical and plumbing licenses. However, they have 80 trucks and the guys who have those licenses probably never leave the office. Although those license holders have responsibility for the work, you'd have to be living in a fantasy world to think that they are following around 80 techs all day to check their work.

Anyway, I've taken this thread far enough off-topic, my apologies to the OP.
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but when applying product to an aircraft (i.e. common products for vehicles), should one be concerned about how that product is going to react with de-icing fluids? I'd hate for the plane to look great after a nice Collinite wax job, be so hydrophobic that the de-ice fluid just sheets off the wing.

Please keep in mind, I'm not claiming to be an aircraft expert, nor know anything about applying product to acft, just asking a question.... I was in Aircraft Maintenance Logistics in the USAF for nearly 10 years, but like I said, I'm just asking.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Oh, now I understand.



I don't know how slippery, or how different any of this is from you wrangling 18 year olds as a crew chief. A&P tasks can be delegated to a non-licensed mechanic under his supervision.

I have used a home HVAC company that has both electrical and plumbing licenses. However, they have 80 trucks and the guys who have those licenses probably never leave the office. Although those license holders have responsibility for the work, you'd have to be living in a fantasy world to think that they are following around 80 techs all day to check their work.

Anyway, I've taken this thread far enough off-topic, my apologies to the OP.
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I'm just thinking some hack out there clogs up a pitot tube or other sensing device with polish or wax and doesn't even know it was done. That would not be good.

I agree with the fact that a & p certified guys are for the most part not doing the work. I'm outa here too.
 
Interesting debate since I posted. I am not an A&P, nor am I an idiot with some wax jumping on a multi-million dollar aircraft. I have 12 years experience in aviation, over 10 with the same company. Just as with automotive, the manufacturer may list something, but there are better options out there. Otherwise no one would be here. Gulfstream does not clean their aircraft with Gulfstream employees. This is usually outsourced to aircraft cleaning companies at the service centers. Different companies at different centers using different products. That is why I wanted to check with everyone here to see their thoughts.
 
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