Headlight Restoration-new UV sealant idea
- Thread starter HotRod
- Start date
Well, here's to dredging up an old post! - I've used LightRite now and it's much tougher than the spar/urethane mixes I've made up. I've applied to LightRite to several cars (Toyotas and Hyundais) where previous coatings didn't stand up over time. I expect that LightRite (also known as Lenz Solution) is similar in concept to OptiLens, though LightRite is spray applied rather than wiped on. From their website:
"The repair coating sealant is comprised of a compound consisting of 55% solids, while most lens sealers are in the range of 10% to 15%. LightRite uses only the finest UV A blockers and urethane acrylates that have the highest cross link density available."
Sounds like some good science has put into this product and that's probably why it's worked better than the others.
Rsurfer
Active member
- Jan 26, 2007
- 14,154
- 18
The problem being that you need to tape and cover everything because of overspray. Whereas Opti Lens is a WOWA product.
Rsurfer
Active member
- Jan 26, 2007
- 14,154
- 18
Do you know for a fact that LightRite is more permanent than Opti Lens?
Absolutely. All of the urethane coatings are more permanent in my experience. They are not perfect, but they are the longest lasting fix I've seen. I was a big OL fan until I started to see it fail on many cars. I think there just isn't enough UV blocking in OL for some cars.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 16,838
- 1,167
It may be that there is just not enough film build with Opti-Lens to get the protection possible with a "paint". Opti-Lens does seem to be better than Opti-Coat 2.0. I haven't had Opti-Lens on anything long enough yet to judge its "permanence".
Rsurfer
Active member
- Jan 26, 2007
- 14,154
- 18
Interesting, no doubt the cost difference is huge.
i started up a headlight restoration business in california about 6 months ago(february) and have been using the spar/urathane for sealant since the day ive started. Ive done close to 250 lights now. Ive read almost all the posts in the thread and there has been alot of useful information.
im surprised no one has mentioned using rain-x deoxidizer yet. ive been able to de-oxidize like 20-30% of the headlights using rain-x windshield stuff and 1500 grit sandpaper alone. Its like 4 bucks at any auto store and is enough to do close to 50 cars. It can also be used it as a lubricant while sanding which helps keep the water on the surface of the light rather then evaporating(helps when its really hot out). I only sand the plastic when there is surface damage/corrosion(which is usually white) and have never had to go under 400 grit even on the worst lights(ive seen pretty bad). After about a month in, i bought a drill and my work has been way easier. i got a 2 speed bosh electric drill which worked better for sanding then the griots garage, and ac delco mini sander which i orginally bought(and returned). I found a drill actually has better torque and can cut through the oxidation quicker then the orbiters just make sure to tape well around the lens. Next, i never sand past a 1500 grit because as someone mentioned earlier, it provides better adhesion for the spar.
Now for some bad news, In the 6 months ive bbeen in business ive had 4 claims on the warranty since ive started. The spar lasted between 5-6 months before it started breaking down. This is a problem because i have given out a year warranty with the majority of the restorations ive done. It could be because i live in california and we have a higher UV index then other states or it could be because i was using 60/40 spar/ms(ive started using 75/25 past month) anymore ive noticed it steaks up. IT was a very easy fix removing the spar and putting on a new coat on the 4 claims but now i am very very skeptical about the longevity of the spar.
I dont understand why it is so difficult to find a liquid clear coat that can hold up for at least a year. There are alot of aerosol clear coats(not practical as a mobile guy) but very few liquid ones. I went as far as contacting a chemist at momentive who speacilze in creating clear coats and this is what i got back from the chemist:
"HI Jeff,
I am responding to your inquiry from our site. Our hardcoats, both thermal cure & UV cure are used in the OEM headlamp industry. Typically the challenge for headlamp restoration is that these coatings required both a heated flash step to remove solvent & a prolonged elevated temperature exposure to cure (250F/125C for 45 min.). Typically this level of heat requires disassembly from the housing to avoid damage to the internals. In OEM production, of course, the headlamps are coated prior to assembly. In the case of UV cure, UVHC3000, there is a similar preheat step + a high UV radiation step using a UV processor.
Do you have these capabilities & would you be disassembling the lens from the housing? Let me know if you are still interested…we do get a lot of inquiries on headlamp restoration but typically the limiting factor is processing requirements & separation from the housing. was forwarded to me from our website.
Best Regards,
-Steve"
it is obviously not practical nor possible to remove the lights to coat them so that option is a no go.. i guess finding a liquid clear coat that will actually hold up isnt easy. So far ive narrowed it down to 3 different liquid products: optilens/opticoat, delta infinity, and gclear by glasweld. The first two are WAY to expensive for commercial use but the third product was reasonably priced and when i called to inquire more the customer service rep who i spoke with was quick to assure me their product would last a year but REFUSED to warranty the lights on my customers vehicle for "legal purposes" which sounds kinda fishy. I havent been able to find any reviews on the product but the company has a good reputation online for other products according to scamadvisor. i saw a demonstration on youtube and their clear is applied in like 10 seconds wipe on polish off. the cure time is apparently only 5 minutes of sunlight too. Anyhow i am wondering if anyone has any experience using this product because i may be placing an order soon to give this product a shot. If so, let me know asap thanks
im surprised no one has mentioned using rain-x deoxidizer yet. ive been able to de-oxidize like 20-30% of the headlights using rain-x windshield stuff and 1500 grit sandpaper alone. Its like 4 bucks at any auto store and is enough to do close to 50 cars. It can also be used it as a lubricant while sanding which helps keep the water on the surface of the light rather then evaporating(helps when its really hot out). I only sand the plastic when there is surface damage/corrosion(which is usually white) and have never had to go under 400 grit even on the worst lights(ive seen pretty bad). After about a month in, i bought a drill and my work has been way easier. i got a 2 speed bosh electric drill which worked better for sanding then the griots garage, and ac delco mini sander which i orginally bought(and returned). I found a drill actually has better torque and can cut through the oxidation quicker then the orbiters just make sure to tape well around the lens. Next, i never sand past a 1500 grit because as someone mentioned earlier, it provides better adhesion for the spar.
Now for some bad news, In the 6 months ive bbeen in business ive had 4 claims on the warranty since ive started. The spar lasted between 5-6 months before it started breaking down. This is a problem because i have given out a year warranty with the majority of the restorations ive done. It could be because i live in california and we have a higher UV index then other states or it could be because i was using 60/40 spar/ms(ive started using 75/25 past month) anymore ive noticed it steaks up. IT was a very easy fix removing the spar and putting on a new coat on the 4 claims but now i am very very skeptical about the longevity of the spar.
I dont understand why it is so difficult to find a liquid clear coat that can hold up for at least a year. There are alot of aerosol clear coats(not practical as a mobile guy) but very few liquid ones. I went as far as contacting a chemist at momentive who speacilze in creating clear coats and this is what i got back from the chemist:
"HI Jeff,
I am responding to your inquiry from our site. Our hardcoats, both thermal cure & UV cure are used in the OEM headlamp industry. Typically the challenge for headlamp restoration is that these coatings required both a heated flash step to remove solvent & a prolonged elevated temperature exposure to cure (250F/125C for 45 min.). Typically this level of heat requires disassembly from the housing to avoid damage to the internals. In OEM production, of course, the headlamps are coated prior to assembly. In the case of UV cure, UVHC3000, there is a similar preheat step + a high UV radiation step using a UV processor.
Do you have these capabilities & would you be disassembling the lens from the housing? Let me know if you are still interested…we do get a lot of inquiries on headlamp restoration but typically the limiting factor is processing requirements & separation from the housing. was forwarded to me from our website.
Best Regards,
-Steve"
it is obviously not practical nor possible to remove the lights to coat them so that option is a no go.. i guess finding a liquid clear coat that will actually hold up isnt easy. So far ive narrowed it down to 3 different liquid products: optilens/opticoat, delta infinity, and gclear by glasweld. The first two are WAY to expensive for commercial use but the third product was reasonably priced and when i called to inquire more the customer service rep who i spoke with was quick to assure me their product would last a year but REFUSED to warranty the lights on my customers vehicle for "legal purposes" which sounds kinda fishy. I havent been able to find any reviews on the product but the company has a good reputation online for other products according to scamadvisor. i saw a demonstration on youtube and their clear is applied in like 10 seconds wipe on polish off. the cure time is apparently only 5 minutes of sunlight too. Anyhow i am wondering if anyone has any experience using this product because i may be placing an order soon to give this product a shot. If so, let me know asap thanks
I've been using the Glasweld GClear - I don't blame them for not wanting to warranty as there are too many variables they cannot control.
I will say that it will last at least a year and many years if you follow the instructions spot on. Preferably indoors out of the sun. Then either UV cure lights or park out in the sunlight for 10 minutes. Also, if you have experience with Spar, the appliication after sanding is nearly the same possibly even easier but you need to be careful as it will start to harden after you wipe on. It fills and hardens to a much thicker coating than Opti Lens. The product comes with detailed instructions. I say go for it as i had the same contemplations as you did.
Good luck
I will say that it will last at least a year and many years if you follow the instructions spot on. Preferably indoors out of the sun. Then either UV cure lights or park out in the sunlight for 10 minutes. Also, if you have experience with Spar, the appliication after sanding is nearly the same possibly even easier but you need to be careful as it will start to harden after you wipe on. It fills and hardens to a much thicker coating than Opti Lens. The product comes with detailed instructions. I say go for it as i had the same contemplations as you did.
Good luck
awesome thanks!!.. im def gonna place an order now and give it a shot. great to know this stuff lasts at least a year. crazy how this thread has gone on for over 120 pages and this product has yet to be mentioned considering you get 6x the amount for less then the price of opticoat/lenz.. and yea i guess it is reasonable for them not want to warrant the lights for my customers since they are still technically my customers and legally that could be tough to do.
I was told you can get up to 16 cars for an 8 ounce bottle($44).. which comes out to like $2.75 a car(very affordable).. Do you really need half an ounce for each car? that seems like ALOT of liquid to use for only two headlights
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 16,838
- 1,167
They seem like a pretty new company and the headlight product may be even newer--they only show 19 applicators in all of North America (including Canada and Mexico), and they are all listed as windshield repair. In comparison, Optimum has twice that many installers for Opti-Coat in California alone.
The cost per vehicle of all three coatings you mention are in the same ballpark... around a buck per vehicle depending on how you work with it exactly. Optilens is much more expensive per ounce, obviously. But the cost per vehicle is actually the cheapest in my experience because so little product is used per application.
GClear is more difficult to use than the others, because of the UV curing factor, and takes more skill to apply correctly without screwing it up. Sort of a high-risk, high-reward. You have one shot to get it right, or it's a lot of work to remove and reapply. It is very similar to using spar, but it's not so easy to fix mistakes. Much better if you get it right the first time, so practice a bit. Nice heavy coat, without getting runs. BTW, as mentioned, it's best to apply out of the sun... and is more difficult to apply on hot surface.... simiar to using high ratio of spar-ms.
Infinity is more forgiving, easy to apply, air dry etc. But it's not quite as crystal clear IMO and you need to do more prep to the lens... fully restored, clear. (same thing with Optilens btw) Done right, it's way better than spar varnish. Looks better, lasts longer, easier to use.
FWIW, I've actually seen the UV cure coatings break down within a few months... but that's not normal. I'm doing dealer work and sometimes... don't follow suggested directions and often experiment with things, so sometimes I mess with the process a little too much. :xyxthumbs: Overall though, Infinity and Gclear are both a dramatic improvement over wood varnish, which is almost guaranteed to fail within a year. Be shocked if it doesn't.
GClear is more difficult to use than the others, because of the UV curing factor, and takes more skill to apply correctly without screwing it up. Sort of a high-risk, high-reward. You have one shot to get it right, or it's a lot of work to remove and reapply. It is very similar to using spar, but it's not so easy to fix mistakes. Much better if you get it right the first time, so practice a bit. Nice heavy coat, without getting runs. BTW, as mentioned, it's best to apply out of the sun... and is more difficult to apply on hot surface.... simiar to using high ratio of spar-ms.
Infinity is more forgiving, easy to apply, air dry etc. But it's not quite as crystal clear IMO and you need to do more prep to the lens... fully restored, clear. (same thing with Optilens btw) Done right, it's way better than spar varnish. Looks better, lasts longer, easier to use.
FWIW, I've actually seen the UV cure coatings break down within a few months... but that's not normal. I'm doing dealer work and sometimes... don't follow suggested directions and often experiment with things, so sometimes I mess with the process a little too much. :xyxthumbs: Overall though, Infinity and Gclear are both a dramatic improvement over wood varnish, which is almost guaranteed to fail within a year. Be shocked if it doesn't.
Their headlight stuff is pretty new... but the company has been around at least 20 years in the glass biz
thanks for the response to my original post first off.
Going back to the price, gclear is $80 for 16 ounces(32-40 cars) where opticoat you can get 20c(2/3 of an ounce) on amazon for a little over $70 so gclear def sounds like a better buy if the stuff holds up. I coukd be wrong but it seems like it would be tough to coat 32-40 cars with less then an ounce of liquid, although it could defenitly be possible.
Also I'm still not getting why gclear is so much more difficult to apply then the spar? I mean as long as your not in direct sunlight the liquid shouldn't start curing right away.. right? I was told a heating source isn't necessary becuase the light only Take 10-15 to cure in the sunlight(which is awsome). I was also told directly from one of the chemists who produced the product it heat should not affect the sealant but applying it within direct contact of the sun can and will(cause it to streak). Im guessing that gonna be the issue regardless. Anyhow, It should be arriving tomorrow so I'm gonna run some tests(cure time, how it reacts with water, oms, heat, compound/polish, etc) on an old car I have first before I start using it.
I agree anyone who is still using spar as a clear coat should really think twice about garunteeing a year warranty with that stuff. I learned the hard way and have already had to drive ba ck and redue several customers cars. It's not worth it.
Urethane coating is completely different than Optilens, enough that it doesn't make sense to "cross shop" them. OL only takes a few drops per lens...
Anyway, with all of the coatings, part of it is how efficient you are. A lot of it can be wasted, depending on the applicator used, etc. So one guy might get twice the number of cars as another guy, from the same product. I've found the mfg estimates are often reasonable, but are conservative. They surely would prefer if you used/wasted a little more product vs. being efficient and making the bottle last longer, if you know what I mean. The 16oz Gclear can easily do more than 40 cars, especially if you do often do more than one car at a time... or can keep the applicator clean and stored so that it can be reused a few times. Their applicator works great, but soaks up a ton of product.
Here's why I say it's more difficult. On hot days and/or in direct sun, it tacks up very fast so it's tricky to apply on a larger or odd shaped lens. Cooler weather or working inside does help a lot. It's definitely easier inside, completely away from sunlight. That also allows the coating to flash a couple minutes prior to curing with a light or moving the car out in the sun. On really humid days, there can be some blushing.... which will disappear in a couple minutes as long as you keep UV away. The other reason it's more difficult... is just that it can be a nightmare to fix if you screw it up the first time, compared to spar varnish.
Anyway, with all of the coatings, part of it is how efficient you are. A lot of it can be wasted, depending on the applicator used, etc. So one guy might get twice the number of cars as another guy, from the same product. I've found the mfg estimates are often reasonable, but are conservative. They surely would prefer if you used/wasted a little more product vs. being efficient and making the bottle last longer, if you know what I mean. The 16oz Gclear can easily do more than 40 cars, especially if you do often do more than one car at a time... or can keep the applicator clean and stored so that it can be reused a few times. Their applicator works great, but soaks up a ton of product.
Here's why I say it's more difficult. On hot days and/or in direct sun, it tacks up very fast so it's tricky to apply on a larger or odd shaped lens. Cooler weather or working inside does help a lot. It's definitely easier inside, completely away from sunlight. That also allows the coating to flash a couple minutes prior to curing with a light or moving the car out in the sun. On really humid days, there can be some blushing.... which will disappear in a couple minutes as long as you keep UV away. The other reason it's more difficult... is just that it can be a nightmare to fix if you screw it up the first time, compared to spar varnish.
do you think its best to measure out the liquid before applying or do you just need to saturate the applicator pad completely? also do you think the blue shop towels would work well?
hopefully my wondershade will provide some coverage from the sun. If you do screw up, im guessing you would have to resand with a 1500?(maybe 600?). the guy i talked to mentioned you could dilute gclear(was told to dab the aplicator pad in IPA) to make it easier to spread so maybe that could be used to remove it?
hopefully my wondershade will provide some coverage from the sun. If you do screw up, im guessing you would have to resand with a 1500?(maybe 600?). the guy i talked to mentioned you could dilute gclear(was told to dab the aplicator pad in IPA) to make it easier to spread so maybe that could be used to remove it?
I think it's a good idea to measure it.... at least a few times, so you know how much you are actually using per car.
I use a small tupperware type container as a dip tank. Pour a little into it... whatever I think is needed for the job. I also use it to store the applicator between uses. Keeps it sealed, out of sunlight... helps if you want to reuse it. Putting the applicator in a Ziploc bag with air squeezed out is even better for storing for next day/week.
Blue towels work ok, but they need to be soaking wet... and takes a lot of product to get enough of it soaked to do a large lens in a single step. I would recommend trying the applicator they sell for gclear. It really does work nice. Don't soak the whole thing like in their video.... just use one end or corner of the pad.
I will have to experiment more with removing the uncured product with solvents. I would think the best thing would be urethane reducer. IPA sounds odd to me. I've used 600 grit to remove it. Don't think 1500 would cut it unfortunately. If you catch it immediately, wipe down with thinner/ipa and resand the final step.... 1500-3000 grit.
I use a small tupperware type container as a dip tank. Pour a little into it... whatever I think is needed for the job. I also use it to store the applicator between uses. Keeps it sealed, out of sunlight... helps if you want to reuse it. Putting the applicator in a Ziploc bag with air squeezed out is even better for storing for next day/week.
Blue towels work ok, but they need to be soaking wet... and takes a lot of product to get enough of it soaked to do a large lens in a single step. I would recommend trying the applicator they sell for gclear. It really does work nice. Don't soak the whole thing like in their video.... just use one end or corner of the pad.
I will have to experiment more with removing the uncured product with solvents. I would think the best thing would be urethane reducer. IPA sounds odd to me. I've used 600 grit to remove it. Don't think 1500 would cut it unfortunately. If you catch it immediately, wipe down with thinner/ipa and resand the final step.... 1500-3000 grit.
I've been out of the business for 2 years. We developed a chemical stripper to eliminate most sanding and 2 different hard coats; a 2 part poly coat and a conventional varnish based coat.
We never fully went into production because the market is so fragmented and production costs for startup were so high.
Here's 2 videos we produced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBtl68SlcBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hzcelTUvJo
There are many protective coatings available today; far more than when we were looking at the market.
One reason no one wants to talk about coating lifetime is that it's really a question of environment. You could coat a restored headlight with simple auto wax and it could last years if the car is parked in a garage. Conversely, you could use a very expensive UV cured coating that might start yellowing in a few months if constantly exposed to sunlight.
It might help you choose a coating if you understand the science behind these coatings. I'm working on a post that I'll post next week that explains the science of these coatings.
We never fully went into production because the market is so fragmented and production costs for startup were so high.
Here's 2 videos we produced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBtl68SlcBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hzcelTUvJo
There are many protective coatings available today; far more than when we were looking at the market.
One reason no one wants to talk about coating lifetime is that it's really a question of environment. You could coat a restored headlight with simple auto wax and it could last years if the car is parked in a garage. Conversely, you could use a very expensive UV cured coating that might start yellowing in a few months if constantly exposed to sunlight.
It might help you choose a coating if you understand the science behind these coatings. I'm working on a post that I'll post next week that explains the science of these coatings.