1-Step vs 3-Steps

[Buckskincolt]

"If you don't like the weather, just wait 20 minutes and it will change"

You lived in Oregon and didn't understand that before?:surrender: Only here it's 5 minutes.

Look at Asphalt Rockets reply to Mister Sharks and I's question about an AIO.....Said to use Meg's 205 as an AIO then says to use a multi step system you will get better results.....Well yeah but lets ask the question again....IS XMT 360 one of the better "AIO'S" and could you have gotten better results if you would have used a PC and a white pad with the AIO? Thanks!

I totally under stand you get better results using a multi step process and you get better results if you use 3 steps over a single step but not every car or person wants all that done. I'm a noob so I'm experimenting as to what does what and what kind of look and durability & look one can get from the different products and methods.

Thank You Mike for all your hard work....I have learned so much from you here at AG. I trust your tried and true methods and really appreciate you sharing them with us all.........:urtheman:

~~Yale

EDIT: You answered my question before I could post...Thank You!!!

I'm looking forward to your review of the XMT360 on your Jimmy, should be an awesome test!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

You lived in Oregon and didn't understand that before?:surrender: Only here it's 5 minutes.

Oregon's weather doesn't change as quickly as Florida's, no way. One moment it's absolutely pouring down rain and in 20 more minutes you ready to take your surfboard to the beach and catch some rays. I lived on the coast and in the valley and the weather doesn't change that quickly in those kinds of extremes.

Look at Asphalt Rockets reply to Mister Sharks and I's question about an AIO.....Said to use Meg's 205 as an AIO then says to use a multi step system you will get better results.....

M205 is a cleaner/polish, it offers no protection so it's not a true AIO as a true AIO would include some type of water insoluble protection ingredients as well as other things.

Well yeah but lets ask the question again....IS XMT 360 one of the better "AIO'S" and could you have gotten better results if you would have used a PC and a white pad with the AIO? Thanks!

Well I haven't used it yet so I'm not going to make a statement about it until I've used it, integrity and all that stuff...

I did say I would test it this weekend if you go back and look at the pictures scan what I said in relationship to the picture.

As for the last portion of your questions, generally speaking, machines always outperform hands, so "Yes" I believe I would have obtained better results using a machine to apply XMT 360 versus ColorX by hand.

Does that help?

 

[Buckskincolt]

Does that help?

Yes sir it does! Thank You!

 

[m4bama]

Nice follow up Mike the Spirit with which you present the facts is unqeustioned the results are impressive.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Okay, the sun poked it's head out in-between the clouds so about an hour ago I took some full-on sun shots.

If you're not up-to-speed with the thread, then read it from the beginning as the goal was never to create a flawless finish in the two test sections, heck if I wanted to do that I would have whipped out the rotary buffer.

The goal was to show another forum member the difference in results between using a one-step cleaner wax and a multiple step system using dedicated products.

Then one of our forum members wondered if after one wash the paint would simply be back to were it was when we started. Not only did I wash it, I washed real good, multiple, multiple passes and I used a full strength solution of a known strong detergent dish soap; something no one would normally do if they were actually trying to preserve their results.

So here's the pictures from just washing, I think it's pretty clear to see that the sections I worked on are not back to square one. In the next day or two I will chemically strip the two sections and then post the results.

This first set is the UC/SwirlX/NXT multi-step test section. The paint closest to the windshield is the BEFORE section, the paint just below it is the Test Section.


The top portion is the Before section and the lower portion is the After section

The top or left portion in this photo is the Before section and the lower portion is the After section

This is the After section with the sun right on top of the paint

Where you see the sun is the Before section

And this is the Before section with full-on, overhead sun

In this set of photos, the upper area is the Test Section with just ColorX and the bottom or lower section is the BEFORE section.

Both sections that were worked on still look dramatically better even after scrubbing with straight detergent soap. Too late to see how they would look if I used a quality car wash soap.

Swirls were removed in both sections with the most being removed in the multi-step section. But just to prove the point, this week, when I can carve out the time I'll chemically strip both sections and take some more photos.

I'll predict what we'll see, after chemically stripping the test sections will still look better, as in less swirls, but the paint will start to loose clarity.

I have APC, 70% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol and "Klean Strip" brand Mineral Spirits. I may just use them all.


And one final comment and then I have to log-off for the day, one of the topics Dana aka ASPHALT ROCKET wanted to make sure I touched on was that removing swirls by hand isn't a matter of wiping a product on and then wiping it off.

With both the Ultimate Compound and the ColorX, I aggressively worked both products over the paint but also with care so as not to induce scratches at the same time, (which would have been in straight lines as that' how I rubbed with pressure), at the end of each products working cycle I lightened my pressure to make what I call cover passes, that is a little finish polishing or jeweling by hand.

Removing swirls by hand out of clear coats requires a little passion behind the pad and it's much faster and easier to work by machine. I'd even go so far as to say it takes less skill to get great results using a DA style polisher than it does to work with the old-fashioned hand.

And just to note, none of the above is a jab at Dana or anyone else, Dana asked a legitimate question that probably a lot of other members and Lurkers also were wondering so hopefully the photos show that swirls were actually removed, not just filled in. It could also mean the two waxes are just very detergent-proof and not affected by agitating with a brush with a straight solution of Dawn dish washing detergent.

I'll do the chemical striping sometime this week and hopefully that will settle the matter.


Carry on... I have an offline project to attend to...

 

[MisterShark]

I totally under stand you get better results using a multi step process and you get better results if you use 3 steps over a single step but not every car or person wants all that done. I'm a noob so I'm experimenting as to what does what and what kind of look and durability & look one can get from the different products and methods.

I'm with Buck.

I've got limited time, and as much as I'd love to be able to take (and have available) the time to do a true 3-step process, my schedule simply does not allow for it.



That and the other thing is that my 2005 Sable is silver: I'm not even sure it has swirls since they're so hard to see without close inspection. I doubt anyone (including my wife, who is the driver) would be able to see a dramatic difference if I did the 3-step versus a AIO product application.



My other car is a 2.5 month-old black RAV4 with pretty much an immaculate paint job that's been washed weekly, sealed twice already (Meg's Ultimate Quik Wax) and refreshed via Optimum's No Rinse w/ Instant Detailer & Gloss Enhancer applied during drying.

So that car only needs a nice carnuaba waxing after it's next wash (and possibly a claying since you guys cautioned me about rail dust, etc.. even with new cars).



In summary: just looking for an AIO for the Sable (XMT360 in the spotlight for this purpose) and likely some XMT180 paste or Poorboy's EX for the RAV.

XMT 360 is a true one-step cleaner/paint sealant that uses a synthetic polymer blend for it's protection ingredients, no natural products like Carnauba wax. It's durability and protection should be as good as any similar product in this category.

Right now, the Jimmy is a pretty good rolling test bed for testing the cleaning ability of product like the XMT 360 so this weekend I'll test it out and then post some results.

One thing for sure, it's going to be fun to work with as it really smells good.

XMT 360

Upcoming XMT360 FTW!! W00t!

<keeps eyes peeled>

 

[bmw5541]

Mike,

Thanks for the great write up. As a newb and weekend detailer, I often don't have the time to do a multi step application. I don't happen to own a DA and therefore, do everything by hand.

I have been waiting for someone to do a post like this:goodpost:It's great to see just what can be done by hand. BTW, I have used PB PwS as a AIO and love it.

 

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Just curious. So if you do a one-step with what I suggested you feel putting on an lsp after that is going to take to long. Instead you would rather just use something that has a slight cleaner/sealant it that will not work as well. Not trying to give anyone a hard time, just trying to understand why that little of a time difference matters.

Mike thanks for explaining what we talked about and showing some after picks.

 

[Buckskincolt]

Just curious. So if you do a one-step with what I suggested you feel putting on an lsp after that is going to take to long. Instead you would rather just use something that has a slight cleaner/sealant it that will not work as well. Not trying to give anyone a hard time, just trying to understand why that little of a time difference matters.

Mike thanks for explaining what we talked about and showing some after picks.

Guess everyone just isn't perfect:surrender:

 

[GMC83]

Mike,

I cannot wait to see how the Jimmy turns out. Maybe when you try the XMT 360 out on it you could tell us how it compares to D-151 PRC which you have used on your Jimmy before, which is my favorite AIO right now by the way. But I am always open to try new things,which includes AIOs.

 

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Guess everyone just isn't perfect:surrender:

I wasn't being a smartass as you are being, just wanted to know your reasoning behind just using the AIO vs a onestep and applying an lsp. You are right in acting like I would never do something like an AIO, but wasn't downing you either. Once again just seeing what would be the big difference in my suggestion, thats all.

 

[Buckskincolt]

I wasn't being a smartass as you are being, just wanted to know your reasoning behind just using the AIO vs a onestep and applying an lsp. You are right in acting like I would never do something like an AIO, but wasn't downing you either. Once again just seeing what would be the big difference in my suggestion, thats all.

OK, not being a smartass so here you go,

#1 no chance of marring
#2 you don't need to tape off, does not stain moldings
#3 fast no buffing off (or very little)
#4 very durable, probably more so than some nuba waxes
#5 don't always want to deal with correction
#6 great for all colors
#7 less time
#8 less clean up

I could go on but I won't
I don't expect you to do what I do, but if we all did the same thing there would only be one pad, one buffer, one car wash, one polish, one wax or sealant and we would not need places like AG because all the stores would carry all the same stuff. Like Mike says "find something you like and use it often" The deal is I'm a noob and I'm still trying find that thing I like. I can see the need for different things for different projects. Not trying to say they are all the same or get equal results, I don't question that what you suggested would not do a better job but it did not answer Mister Sharks or my question. I ask about an AIO for a reason and I don't feel I need to defend what that reason is.

In closing would like to say I do appreciate the time for your reply and opinion and I do value it. I'm sure you have forgotten more than I will ever know about detailing. That being said I hope you understand I will still experiment and find my own methods and products that give me the results I'm looking for, and with help from people like you and mike I can make my decisions educated ones.:xyxthumbs:

Thanks ~~ Yale

 

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

Thats all I was looking for. I understand alot of peole are not going to do what I do. I also understand you are new to this that is why I threw that suggestion out there. Some of your points I wouldn't agree with and the others are very valid, but it is all in what you are looking to accomplish.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just curious. So if you do a one-step with what I suggested you feel putting on an lsp after that is going to take to long.

Sometimes when threads get long they can also get confusing

None of this was about how I felt


I posted this because there was another forum member having problems getting the 22 year old original paint on his Toyota to look the way he wanted to and had some questions about what to use. I was just trying to help them and instead of posting to their original thread I always think and type for the future and so I wrote a thread that would help him and hopefully more people with similar questions into the future.


With almost 30,000 posts on MOL I completely understand that if one person has a question there's probably a dozen or more with the same kind of question but don't ever post it for whatever their reasons. This doesn't include all the hundreds of Lurkers that read this forum but don't join and post for their own reasons. That said, I try to write for all of them.


On page 2 of this thread, (the one we're reading right now), I even included a link to this other thread,

Here's the link,

Confused about fillers

Here's the pertinent portion of what the member posted and the reason I limited the one test section to just a single product that might restore his car's finish.

I have a well cared for 1988 Civic with 260K on it.

The paint on the hood has 22 years of scratches on it. I don't have cc failure, but, I used a very mild cleaner which left a few scratches and the old scratches appear to be under the CC.

I have kept it well nourished, but am afraid to correct the paint. I think the term for the paint would be "delicate".

Would like to make it last and make it look better, if possible.

I guess my confusion is that I assumed I needed a filler. (I was just trying to focus this question on a single product and not waste a lot of time.)

Also, this question may be too specific, and the post might be more suitable for Detailing 101 as not too many members have 22 year old cars.

In my follow up to the above post by the member, I stated,

Give me about an hour, I found an extremely scratched-up Saturn in the parking lot and the owner is going to let me do two spots on the hood.

• One spot with just ColorX
• One spot with Ultimate Compound, SwirlX and a wax

Then I'll show you the difference with pictures.

Hang tight...

So none of this was about how I felt before or after you and I talked on the phone, I started this entire thread to try to show a forum member what they could expect from a one-step cleaner/wax and then just for fun... I showed them what could be done breaking the process up into dedicated steps using dedicated product for specific purposes.

I never did this write-up to show someone how to get perfection by hand because this guy wasn't after perfection, he merely wanted to try to improve the finish on a 22 year old Toyota using a single product.

Then the thread took a turn as the issue of filling versus real swirl removal came up and now were on page 6 of this thread and to some degree the original purpose of this thread has been diluted.

At the same time, at least by the comments of some forum members, it's helped them to learn about using one-step products versus using a multi-step approach.

And again, if I wanted to create a perfect finish I would have used a machine, but most people don't own machines and back to the original purpose of this thread, the person trying to fix their 22 year old Toyota was working by hand.

I'll try to do the chemical stripping today and post the pictures, after that I have other projects to move on to. I think the pictures and the write-up so far pretty much should make all the points that have now been brought up.

 

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

I was asking Buckskincolt that question earlier in the thread. Thanks for the post though.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I was asking Buckskincolt that question earlier in the thread. Thanks for the post though.

Sorry, I thought it was addressed to me?


Like I said, when a thread gets this long it can get confusing... :dunno:

This is one of the reasons I like to use the quote feature so much as clearly defines who I'm addressing. If you don't use it, then it can become confusing. The myriad of forum nicknames usually doesn't help either. I've always just used my real name since 1994 and to day, knock on Cyber-Wood, no one has tried to steal my identity. :laughing:
(They wouldn't want it, too much e-mail)


Hopefully the sun will poke it's head out today, I do the chemical stripping and we can all move on.

:cheers:

 

[sontakke]

That broom looked so nasty! Obviously, this must be different than what I am used to seeing. That type of broom has extremely tough bristles and is normally used to clean concrete floors. When I first saw the picture, my heart almost stopped

- Vikas

 

[Mister B]

That broom looked so nasty! Obviously, this must be different than what I am used to seeing. That type of broom has extremely tough bristles and is normally used to clean concrete floors. When I first saw the picture, my heart almost stopped

- Vikas

Actually that was a Boars Hair Wash Brush in the photo. The bristles do look pretty coarse in the photo, like it could damage the finish, but they are supposed to be really soft. I've never actually used a Boars Hair brush myself though.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

The bristles are soft, I chose the Boar's Hair Brush because I didn't want to put scratches into the paint.

I did work the Dawn detergent aggressively over the paint with the brush, but would never wash a car I was trying to keep nice like this, I only did this to work the Dawn against the waxed surfaces.

I like the Boar's Hair brushes now that I've been using them and as soon as I can wash my Jimmy I'm using the BHB to get her clean. My truck and boat were transported on the top shelf of the transporter and it must have rained most of the way from California to Florida because both of them were covered with road grime.

Even the grill and the engine compartment are covered with a dirt and grime film and everything was spotless when it was back in the dry desert of Apple Valley, California. The paint is also filled with a lot of swirls so you'll see a write-up pretty soon on getting the Jimmy back up to a higher level. Might do it this Saturday but I'm might also have a 1957 Chevy to work on also.

One thing for sure, after the Jimmy is all polished up again I'll be using the Boar's Hair brushes to keep her clean.

 

[Mister B]

I like the Boar's Hair brushes now that I've been using them and as soon as I can wash my Jimmy I'm using the BHB to get her clean

I've always used the Meguiars Wide Body Brush when washing my truck (with the wash mop telescoping handle). It just makes it a lot easier washing a vehicle of that size. Since the Wide Body Brush is no longer made, maybe I will look into the Boars Hair brush once I wear this one out.