105/205 combo leaving white like overspray dots

[Danube]

This is not the first time that I'm facing this problem.

To start with, I'm using the old 105 (rotary only version).

After washing & claying - I applied the 105 using rotary (white pad), followed by 205 on DA (green pad).

The white spots seen on the photos are so stubborn and look like paint over-spray It is extremely hard to remove them, some are impossible to remove. I tried using QD to no avail. UC on the hand applicator provided some results but this required me to put in a lot of time in doing this. I also tried clay with little or no success.

Why is this happening? It must be something wrong with the product(s). Both 105/205 look fresh and only opened a few months ago. (I know it's hard to find the old version but Australia is a miracle place )


I still have a few dots if this sort on my M Benz which I was unable to remove from a detail done a few months back.

It happens on every car I use this combo on. It is definitely above the surface but why it sticks so hard to the paint making it nearly impossible to remove?!?

Feed back please

 

[tuscarora dave]

Sometimes this happens if you either use too much product and or spin the pad too fast. I have made adjustments to my rotary speed early in the buffing cycle to avoid it but sometimes it still occurs. The key is to be aware that it is occurring and wipe it up immediately before it dries. If I had more time right now I'd elaborate further about my experience with this but I have to get to work right now. Rest assured that it is simply part of the learning curve with 105 and I suggest working through it. For the spots still remaining try some prep-sol or other grease/wax remover to clean it up. I'll try to come back to offer a few suggestions this weekend.

 

[Danube]

The more I think about this problem the more I get puzzled.

Looks like if too much product is used (which probably was the case) then another step of removing those stubborn spots is necessary??!? Another step?

I'm not sure as to how many of you experienced this, but thinking backwards nearly every experience of mine with 105/205 resulted in the same white spots.

And again, these are so stubborn like you wouldn't believe it. A paint over-spray would be easier to remove. The bond made between these spots and the paint is unbelievable .. it becomes part of the paint. Horrible indeed!!!

I've looked for prep-sol all over the net to no avail.

Will try mineral turps ..

 

[richy]

Check out my video for using 105 for an idea of how little product you actually use:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-richy-s-m105-video-no-dusting-technique.html

 

[Danube]

I have richy, I know now I've used too much product, but still can't believe how stuborn these dots are.

Just bought 3M wax and grease remover, will see if this helps.

Anyone else has experience of this sort with 105?

 

[BobbyG]

I would think that car wash and warm water should dissolve both products without imparting additional marring...

 

[tuscarora dave]

I had this happen while working on a black Honda CR-V. I hadn't realized the spots were there until after the job was almost completed and there was plenty of time for them to dry. I was also amazed/pissed at how stubborn they were to get off. Nothing I tried seemed to remove them and I was marring the heck out of the black paint trying to get them off. In the end I used red Clay Magic clay with glass cleaner as a clay lube to remove them and then re polished the area with 205.I really didn't want a repeat of this so next time it happened I stopped what I was doing and wiped them up immediately.

I do things a bit differently than what I see most other people doing regarding rotary polishing with 105. I see a lot of folks just using a few pea sized drops on an otherwise clean pad and then just start polishing, then sometimes I see some folks prime the pad up KBM style and then add a few pea sized drops and then start buffing. Neither of these techniques work out well for me as just a few drops on the pad (IMO) has not enough of the face of the pad working for me and, fully priming then adding more is way too much product (IMO) and this is when the white dots start flying.

My technique is right in the middle of the two. I lightly prime 100% of the face of the pad and start compounding in a small work section, like a 12 inch squared section. I start out slow and allow the 105 to spread around the small work area then bump the speed up once the product is spread around. The lightly applied layer of 105 affords me enough product to complete about 2 section passes in each direction until the product goes clear or flashes on the paint. Once the product goes clear or flashes, I take my water bottle and lightly mist the "work section" (Never the pad) with water and with just the remaining product that is still in the pad, I crank the speed back down and spread the re-hydrated slurry around in the small work section again and then bump the speed back up and do an additional 2 section passed in each direction. This time around I can really feel the pad/product biting into the paint. In my experience, this is where the real paint correction is occurring. I work the section until it goes clean on the paint then wipe off the area with a quick mist of water and a MF towel to inspect my work. The only time I ever need to repeat this in the same work section is when working with the hardest of clear coats like on Corvettes or Audi paint.

Using this technique I get maximum correction at a fast pace, minimize the amount of product needed to get the work done and experience minimal dusting. Where I was always getting in trouble with 105 was in trying to work too large of a work section at a time, using too much product, getting too much sling and too much dusting.

Pea sized drops are no longer in my vocabulary when rotary compounding/polishing is concerned. For me it's lightly prime the pad and go to work. I only ever use the water misting technique when working with M-105 as it truly unlocks the product's potential. Any other product whether it be compound or polish just gets the prime and go technique, never pea sized drops.

Take it for what it's worth. It's "my" proven technique that's relevant to "my" style of rotary compounding/polishing. It has been developed over years of trying dozens of suggested techniques and it has cut my correction time in half over any other technique I have tried.

 

[Danube]

I would think that car wash and warm water should dissolve both products without imparting additional marring...

Car wash can't even touch it.
Have you ever experienced the same residue after compounding? I would expect more people to chime in here regarding this issue.

I had this happen while working on a black Honda CR-V. I hadn't realized the spots were there until after the job was almost completed and there was plenty of time for them to dry. I was also amazed/pissed at how stubborn they were to get off. Nothing I tried seemed to remove them and I was marring the heck out of the black paint trying to get them off. In the end I used red Clay Magic clay with glass cleaner as a clay lube to remove them and then re polished the area with 205.I really didn't want a repeat of this so next time it happened I stopped what I was doing and wiped them up immediately.

I do things a bit differently than what I see most other people doing regarding rotary polishing with 105. I see a lot of folks just using a few pea sized drops on an otherwise clean pad and then just start polishing, then sometimes I see some folks prime the pad up KBM style and then add a few pea sized drops and then start buffing. Neither of these techniques work out well for me as just a few drops on the pad (IMO) has not enough of the face of the pad working for me and, fully priming then adding more is way too much product (IMO) and this is when the white dots start flying.

My technique is right in the middle of the two. I lightly prime 100% of the face of the pad and start compounding in a small work section, like a 12 inch squared section. I start out slow and allow the 105 to spread around the small work area then bump the speed up once the product is spread around. The lightly applied layer of 105 affords me enough product to complete about 2 section passes in each direction until the product goes clear or flashes on the paint. Once the product goes clear or flashes, I take my water bottle and lightly mist the "work section" (Never the pad) with water and with just the remaining product that is still in the pad, I crank the speed back down and spread the re-hydrated slurry around in the small work section again and then bump the speed back up and do an additional 2 section passed in each direction. This time around I can really feel the pad/product biting into the paint. In my experience, this is where the real paint correction is occurring. I work the section until it goes clean on the paint then wipe off the area with a quick mist of water and a MF towel to inspect my work. The only time I ever need to repeat this in the same work section is when working with the hardest of clear coats like on Corvettes or Audi paint.

Using this technique I get maximum correction at a fast pace, minimize the amount of product needed to get the work done and experience minimal dusting. Where I was always getting in trouble with 105 was in trying to work too large of a work section at a time, using too much product, getting too much sling and too much dusting.

Pea sized drops are no longer in my vocabulary when rotary compounding/polishing is concerned. For me it's lightly prime the pad and go to work. I only ever use the water misting technique when working with M-105 as it truly unlocks the product's potential. Any other product whether it be compound or polish just gets the prime and go technique, never pea sized drops.

Take it for what it's worth. It's "my" proven technique that's relevant to "my" style of rotary compounding/polishing. It has been developed over years of trying dozens of suggested techniques and it has cut my correction time in half over any other technique I have tried.

Thank you tuscarora dave, your comments are always very informative and worthwhile careful reading and practicing. Experience counts and that's where your posts excel.

:xyxthumbs:

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I'm surprised that Mike Phillips did not offer any opinion on this.

I consider this to be a major issue regarding Megs 105. Apart from empty phrases such as: to much/too little product, etc .. this issue needs to be categorized under product liability, for the simple fact that 105 correct paint while causing damage to it at the same time. Regardless of 'user error' the white dots left over after compounding are so stubborn that it took me more time to remove the dots then to compound the panel.

It would be appreciated if someone from Meguiars address this and provide explanation.

Thanx

 

[Ginnova]

Had the same issues when I first used M105. It seems that if the pad is overly primed, these small white dots just flies like crazy. And yes if these are allowed to dry on the paint for a while its a pain to remove. This is the reason I have switched to Menz FG500. Very litte/no dust and it finishes better. It also has lots of lubricating oils perfect for dry paints.

 

[Mobile detail]

Ya, sometimes m105 works perfect, and sometimes it's a pain. I have gotten the dots of cement before and they are beyonde a pita. Sometimes I wish I could find a compound that is as effective but cleans up a lot easier. I hate when you get some behind a door handle and it dries or you missed a spot when whipping down. That's like cement. The only thing that has kinda gotten it off was OPc and a mf. Seems like meg could tweak the formula since SO many people have problems with it. Makes you wonder if almost , and I say almost, everyone has a prob with it, is it that great. Granted the standard using too much/little is everyone's opinion on how to fix it, I just wish there was a comparable product that wasn't impossible to clean up. I spend more time cleaning than I do compounding sometimes!

 

[Danube]

That's like cement.

That's exactly how I perceive the white 105 dots.

There are still a few cemented dots on my MB that I'm still unable to take off?!?

Any Expert's advice on this?!

 

[davey g-force]

Danube, are you a member of MOL?

You'll definitely get a Meguiars expert answer over there. :xyxthumbs

 

[Danube]

Thanks Dave, I have actually contacted Jason Rose to join this topic, hopefully he'll chime in soon.

 

[c5errr]

i use the ultimate compound and scratchx and swirlx
and they produce some dusty residue but its super easy to wipe
i wipe them very gently
and when u get dust alot always make sure to clean the pads (on the fly)
with brush or a terry towel
i usually turn on the pc with towel against the pad with firm pressure this would clean the (spent product) and any other things trap in the pad
(always work clean)

 

[truckbutt]

I have had the same experience as Danube with 105. My technique to avoid it is very similiar to Dave's. The only difference is that I prime my pad with Meguiars QD (not the Ultimate QD) in the red spray bottle. A few sprays and I'm good to go. (I've seen someone post a YouTube video using a sprayer with water to prime their pad.) The rest is the same as Dave's. Inevitably there is always a few stray dots of dried product. I get that off with QD or some Klean Strip Prep All. M105 is definitely an acquired taste. I love how it finishes.

 

[Rsurfer]

What about the oils in 105..will water clean it up for inspection?

I work the section until it goes clean on the paint then wipe off the area with a quick mist of water and a MF towel to inspect my work.

 

[RZJZA80]

This happens when the 105 gets heated up and "baked" onto the paint, generally with a rotary. It's happened to me and not even KAIO could remove them. Eventually, I had to use 105 again to get them out efficiently, and attempt to scratch them off one by one which was a PITA.

 

[truckbutt]

This happens when the 105 gets heated up and "baked" onto the paint, generally with a rotary. It's happened to me and not even KAIO could remove them. Eventually, I had to use 105 again to get them out efficiently, and attempt to scratch them off one by one which was a PITA.

I've had this happen with DA and rotary. If some slings off of the pad and dries, it dries like a rock. I like Mike Phillips's pictures of cars taped and the windshield draped with a beach towel. I think he must have been thinking about 105!

 

[Danube]

I have had the same experience as Danube with 105. My technique to avoid it is very similiar to Dave's. The only difference is that I prime my pad with Meguiars QD (not the Ultimate QD) in the red spray bottle. A few sprays and I'm good to go. (I've seen someone post a YouTube video using a sprayer with water to prime their pad.) The rest is the same as Dave's. Inevitably there is always a few stray dots of dried product. I get that off with QD or some Klean Strip Prep All. M105 is definitely an acquired taste. I love how it finishes.

Me too, but I don't like the cemented white dots on my car afterwards.

What about the oils in 105..will water clean it up for inspection?

I work the section until it goes clean on the paint then wipe off the area with a quick mist of water and a MF towel to inspect my work.

Water can't even touch the dots.

This happens when the 105 gets heated up and "baked" onto the paint, generally with a rotary. It's happened to me and not even KAIO could remove them. Eventually, I had to use 105 again to get them out efficiently, and attempt to scratch them off one by one which was a PITA.

It happened to me on both rotary and a DA. By trying to scratch the cemented dots with my nails I only achieved to inflict scratches into the paint, but the dots were still there.

I've had this happen with DA and rotary. If some slings off of the pad and dries, it dries like a rock. I like Mike Phillips's pictures of cars taped and the windshield draped with a beach towel. I think he must have been thinking about 105!

No issue with windscreen, the problematic white dots stick to paint and are next to impossible to remove.
I still have a few on my M Benz .. nothing can touch them, except maybe a grinder :laughing:

 

[Buckskincolt]

Another reason I don't use the 105/205 combo unless I have to. Yup, they are great products but there are other products that are easier to use and work very well in most cases.

I have alway used the same product to remove a dried on product. So to remove 105, take some 105 to the spot then wipe before it dries. Clay typically doesn't work because it won't grab it.

Sometimes I have used an IPA wipe with some luck.

Good luck!