$125 wax. What for??

HOLY CRAP!!!!! WHY????? They want to make a wax you almost never have to re-apply again but what about those of us who LIKE the process? And what about pro-detailers...You know how many cars you'd have to detail to pay for that??

Im the MAN

For me it was just to have them. I use them time to time, and they make washing a car that much easier for sure. Granted they are not for everyone but, but like some have said if that is what you want and can afford it why not.
 
For me it was just to have them. I use them time to time, and they make washing a car that much easier for sure. Granted they are not for everyone but, but like some have said if that is what you want and can afford it why not.

I plan to order some Swissvax as well. I want to offer higher end clients higher end options to put their mind at ease. Of course I have to start building a client list first but you get the point! I've had my eye on a few products but I'm just not sure if I really want to spend the money on the Crystal Rock. Maybe if I were detailing lots of exotic cars then I could justify it. There's not too many exotic cars in my area. I know, hard to believe huh? lol.
 
HOLY CRAP!!!!! WHY????? They want to make a wax you almost never have to re-apply again but what about those of us who LIKE the process? And what about pro-detailers...You know how many cars you'd have to detail to pay for that??

Im the MAN

because these are the people with lambos and maybachs that will just throw 2000 into a detail. Detailers have to justify costing them that much :props:

On a side note..I recently made my first purchase and included the 3oz fuzion for 50 + another for 10 dollars. So 6oz for 60.00. I will see how that compares to nxt.
 
The higher cost paste waxes can be cheaper per application than some of the liquids. It is just the up front expense is higher.

This is a great thread guys and Bunky you nailed what I was thinking.

In addition to working here at Autogeek I'm a car guy and waxaholic too, and I have access to every wax that we offer. Im the MANIm the MANIm the MANIm the MAN

I've seen some good analogies and great points made so I'd like to offer up a few myself. For instance a VW Jetta and a Bugatti Veyron have similarities such as both having wheels, tires, engine, seats, steering wheel etc. As much as they have in common, the similarities are dramatically different with differences in performance and also in price. The Veyron isn't for everyone and the Jetta has more mass appeal because of the pricing and it's designed to be a daily driver. Both cars serve a purpose.

That's similar to how I look at paste waxes. There's one for everyone's budget and personal preference from entry level to estate waxes. Some people may not be able to see a difference in the same way that someone eating a steak at the Sizzler may be content but once they dine at an upscale steak house, the steak at Sizzler may lose some of it's appeal. Then again, some may like the price point and the service at Sizzler and that's what they like. Ruth's Chris may not be for everybody.

Upon close inspection of Fuzion at $175.00 taking the free refill into consideration, it's about $3.00 per application. On an average car you can get about 30 application from one jar.

Pinnacle Souveran is also about $3.00 per application.

Pinnacle Signature Series II is less than $1.75 per application.

When comparing various waxes, make sure to take into account how much you need to use and how many applications that you get from each jar. You can have some fun with this and figure out how much per application.

For example, if you have a $20 jar of wax that provides 10 applications at $2.00 each, why not try an estate wax for just a dollar more per application?

I remember back about 10 years ago when I first used Pinnacle Souveran on a black car for a client I had just starting working for. The previous detailer would always use a paste wax but never let them know what brand he was using. All I know is that he left plenty of it in the cracks and around the emblems. We started out by doing a complete interior/exterior detail. Paint was clayed, I did swirl removal with the original Porter Cable 7424 and Four Star Swirl Remover, followed by Four Star's Pre Wax Cleaner. Once the paint prep was done I applied the Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax by hand taking my time and doing one panel at a time. (I know I know, this thread is worthless without pics) As I was getting close to completing the detail, the client came out into the garage and start yelling and raving to the point where it startled me and I jump up thinking there was an emergency. What happened was she saw her car and was amazed by the shiny rippling effect and was asking how I got her paint to look like that. Now we all know that with proper prep the paint should look clear and shiny but it wasn't until I applied the Souveran that the paint took on a deeper, wetter and glossy appearance with a richness in color that Souveran provides. I'm not sure that just any paste wax would have had the same appearance, especially on black and the customer could certainly tell a huge different after I was done compared to what the car looked like after previous details.

I'm going to steal a line that Mike uses:

"Find something you like, and use it often."

With the deals that Max offers to forum members and newsletter subscribers, the numbers that I mentioned earlier are even lower when you factor in the discounts and we can't forget those special occasions each year when he does those two for one deals! If you see a great deal on a premium paste wax, go ahead and give it a try. It may be the wax that you've been looking for.
 
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This is a very informative thread, and I would commend the OP for starting this. Someone said earlier that they thought we were aggravating the pros...I really don't think so. Everyone likes this civilized discussion of ideas here on this forum, and I appreciate everyone's input, especially the pros. They know way more than I do, so I cherish the opportunity to learn from them. Thanks for all the input out there. Keep it comin'!!!!

:dblthumb2:
 
This is a great thread guys and Bunky you nailed what I was thinking.

In addition to working here at Autogeek I'm a car guy and waxaholic too, and I have access to every wax that we offer. Im the MANIm the MANIm the MANIm the MAN

I've seen some good analogies and great points made so I'd like to offer up a few myself. For instance a VW Jetta and a Bugatti Veyron have numerous similarities such as wheels, tires, engine, seats, steering wheel etc. As much as they have in common, they are dramatically different with differences in performance and also in price. The Veyron isn't for everyone and the Jetta has more mass appeal because of the pricing and it's designed to be a daily driver. Both cars serve a purpose.

That's similar to how I look at paste waxes. There's one for everyone's budget and personal preference from entry level to estate waxes. Some people may not be able to see a difference in the same way that someone eating a steak at the Sizzler may be content but once they dine at an upscale steak house, the steak at Sizzler may lose some of it's appeal. Then again, some may like the price point and the service at Sizzler and that's what they like. Ruth's Chris may not be for everybody.

Upon close inspection of Fuzion at $175.00 taking the free refill into consideration, it's about $3.00 per application. On an average car you can get about 30 application from one jar.

Pinnacle Souveran is also about $3.00 per application.

Pinnacle Signature Series II is less than $1.75 per application.

When comparing various waxes, make sure to take into account how much you need to use and how many applications that you get from each jar. You can have some fun with this and figure out how much per application.

For example, if you have a $20 jar of wax that provides 10 applications at $2.00 each, why not try an estate wax for just a dollar more per application?

I remember back about 10 years ago when I first used Pinnacle Souveran on a black car for a client I had just starting working for. The previous detailer would always use a paste wax but never let them know what brand he was using. All I know is that he left plenty of it in the cracks and around the emblems. We started out by doing a complete interior/exterior detail. Paint was clayed, I did swirl removal with the original Porter Cable 7424 and Four Star Swirl Remover, followed by Four Star's Pre Wax Cleaner. Once the paint prep was done I applied the Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax by hand taking my time and doing one panel at a time. (I know I know, this thread is worthless without pics) As I was getting close to completing the detail, the client came out into the garage and start yelling and raving to the point where it startled me and I jump up thinking there was an emergency. What happened was she saw her car and was amazed by the shiny rippling effect and was asking how I got her paint to look like that. Now we all know that with proper prep the paint should look clear and shiny but it wasn't until I applied the Souveran that the paint took on a deeper, wetter and glossy appearance with a richness in color that Souveran provides. I'm not sure that just any paste wax would have had the same appearance, especially on black and the customer could certainly tell a huge different after I was done compared to what the car looked like after previous details.

I'm going to steal a line that Mike uses:

"Find something you like, and use it often."

With the deals that Max offers to forum members and newsletter subscribers, the numbers that I mentioned earlier are even lower when you factor in the discounts and we can't forget those special occasions each year when he does those two for one deals! If you see a great deal on a premium paste wax, go ahead and give it a try. It may be the wax that you've been looking for.

:applause::applause::applause:You totally hit the nail on the head Dwayne!! I have been following this thread, but have not posted till now. I think you ever so eloquently summed it all up. I wish I could have said it so well. (P.S. I love a great wax almost as much as I love a great steak). Great analogy!!
 
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I'm going to start saving and hope Max offers Fuzion on BOGO sometime this year. I already have M26, M16, P21s, and Pinnacle Souveran (which I have not been able to try yet), and I'm planning on getting Pinnacle Signature Series II and possibly DP Max Wax, but there's something about Fuzion that I find very appealing. BTW, anybody have any thoughts on Fuzion they would care to share?
 
I have some pinnacle souveran I ordered recently and am dying to try it. I also want to try some fuzion in the near future. I'm sad to say it, but I bought the car new and up until now Zaino is all I have used on it. Very excited to try out new stuff.
 
This is a great thread guys and Bunky you nailed what I was thinking.

In addition to working here at Autogeek I'm a car guy and waxaholic too, and I have access to every wax that we offer. Im the MANIm the MANIm the MANIm the MAN

I've seen some good analogies and great points made so I'd like to offer up a few myself. For instance a VW Jetta and a Bugatti Veyron have similarities such as both having wheels, tires, engine, seats, steering wheel etc. As much as they have in common, the similarities are dramatically different with differences in performance and also in price. The Veyron isn't for everyone and the Jetta has more mass appeal because of the pricing and it's designed to be a daily driver. Both cars serve a purpose.

That's similar to how I look at paste waxes. There's one for everyone's budget and personal preference from entry level to estate waxes. Some people may not be able to see a difference in the same way that someone eating a steak at the Sizzler may be content but once they dine at an upscale steak house, the steak at Sizzler may lose some of it's appeal. Then again, some may like the price point and the service at Sizzler and that's what they like. Ruth's Chris may not be for everybody.

Upon close inspection of Fuzion at $175.00 taking the free refill into consideration, it's about $3.00 per application. On an average car you can get about 30 application from one jar.

Pinnacle Souveran is also about $3.00 per application.

Pinnacle Signature Series II is less than $1.75 per application.

When comparing various waxes, make sure to take into account how much you need to use and how many applications that you get from each jar. You can have some fun with this and figure out how much per application.

For example, if you have a $20 jar of wax that provides 10 applications at $2.00 each, why not try an estate wax for just a dollar more per application?

I remember back about 10 years ago when I first used Pinnacle Souveran on a black car for a client I had just starting working for. The previous detailer would always use a paste wax but never let them know what brand he was using. All I know is that he left plenty of it in the cracks and around the emblems. We started out by doing a complete interior/exterior detail. Paint was clayed, I did swirl removal with the original Porter Cable 7424 and Four Star Swirl Remover, followed by Four Star's Pre Wax Cleaner. Once the paint prep was done I applied the Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax by hand taking my time and doing one panel at a time. (I know I know, this thread is worthless without pics) As I was getting close to completing the detail, the client came out into the garage and start yelling and raving to the point where it startled me and I jump up thinking there was an emergency. What happened was she saw her car and was amazed by the shiny rippling effect and was asking how I got her paint to look like that. Now we all know that with proper prep the paint should look clear and shiny but it wasn't until I applied the Souveran that the paint took on a deeper, wetter and glossy appearance with a richness in color that Souveran provides. I'm not sure that just any paste wax would have had the same appearance, especially on black and the customer could certainly tell a huge different after I was done compared to what the car looked like after previous details.

I'm going to steal a line that Mike uses:

"Find something you like, and use it often."

With the deals that Max offers to forum members and newsletter subscribers, the numbers that I mentioned earlier are even lower when you factor in the discounts and we can't forget those special occasions each year when he does those two for one deals! If you see a great deal on a premium paste wax, go ahead and give it a try. It may be the wax that you've been looking for.
Nice write up Dwayne, but it was your prep work that made all the difference in the before and after. Souveran on black= Stunning!
 
Nice write up Dwayne, but it was your prep work that made all the difference in the before and after. Souveran on black= Stunning!

:whs: Souveran...It's like candy for your black car...Nummy!
 
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there are expensive waxes just like there are expensive cars. Some expensive cars perform much better than inexpensive cars, and some inexpensive cars perform as well or better than expensive cars. I personally use inexpensive wax products but I always read about and would like to try these expensive waxes with fancy packaging to see what the hype is.
 
"Q: Why is Souveran so expensive?
A: The plain truth is production costs. Paste waxes are "cooked" in a steam jacketed kettle with the liquid wax being sent under pressure to a filling machine with 6 or more spigots. Wax jars are filled six at a time, go down an assembly line through a cooling tunnel where the top of the wax solidifies enough for a cap to be installed, past a labeling machine where a label is applied and then to final packaging. The Souveran formula, because of the various oils we use, is extremely finicky. We must maintain the temperature of the wax within 4 degrees C. from the beginning to the end of the pouring or we get mush. It also does not like forced cooling. We have to let Souveran air cool. Because the formula requires so much attention, Souveran is poured one container at a time. It is sent down a short assembly line to a flat table where it is allowed to air cool. When it cools in this manner, the center of the wax sinks slightly. This doesn't hurt anything but it doesn't look nice for a high quality wax to have a caved in center. To smooth the top, we pour the container 3/4 full, let it air cool and then run it through a second time to "top it off". In essence, we pour every container twice. The surface wax then air dries a second time, an "O" ring is installed, the cap is screwed on (by hand) and a front and back label is put on (again by hand).

We have to contract the pouring. We rent the kettle, filling machine, cooling table and usually two operators for "X" number of days. With a typical, automotive paste wax, one filling machine and operator should be able to pour and package 2,000 wax jars a day. With Souveran, the best we have ever accomplished is 200 jars a day and some days, as little as 100 jars. We have to amortize the cost of the equipment and labor over the number of jars we produce. That's why it's so expensive. Now we can take out some of the ingredients that make the formula so difficult to pour but we would loose the 3-dimensional, look-down-the-layers shine that Souveran is famous for."



taken from (great read btw) - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pinnacle-wax/8418-story-souveran-wax.html


Its so expensive cause the Sticker and lid are put on by hand. haha lol jk Man, i wanna use it soooo bad. :/
 
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Thats a pretty wide comparison. A better comparison would be buying Walgreens Ibuprofen instead of a bottle of Motrin that has equal size pills equal number and the box is almost identical. The ACTIVE INGREDIENT (Insert Carnuba) is the same in the same strength and quality only one is MOTRIN and one is pharmacy brand. The difference is in your mind and your pocket book. After an hour your Motrin Headache relief isnt any better than your Walgreens relief. lol

And finally I want to stress this is all IMO. And opinions are like.....lol Im the MAN
I don't think that's a valid comparison really.
Waxes have different ingredients added in an attempt to make them shine better and last longer. Fuzion has polymers added to it for example. Other waxes have different types of waxes and oils added to them (bees wax and montan wax for example) Supernatural supposedly has nothing added that isn't necessary to make it spreadable (no added scents or polymers etc). Some of the things they add to some waxes probably are expensive and no matter what your hobby/passion/obsession is there's always gonna be super expensive options.
Do you get the Canon Rebel T2i or the EOS 50D? Or the EOS 7D?
Do you go to Walmart and get a Maglite or do you go to an online store and get A Surefire?
Do you buy Tide or the cheapest detergent you can find?
It's all about how deep your pockets are and where your priorities are.
In the end it doesn't matter if waxes that cost more than $100 are any better or not because if it's that important to you (and you can afford it) you're gonna buy that super expesive wax and find out for yourself. If it isn't that important to you or you can't afford it it isn't gonna matter how much better anyone says these waxes are because you're not gonna buy them anyway...
 
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