1st Time DA Polish Project - Shadow Black Mustang

[PaulMys]

Absolutely start with white pads but don't fear orange pads if you need it.

Two words, over and over.

Test spot, test spot, test spot.................................

 

[Goonie75]

Yep. Test Spot for sure... orange wouldn't cut like I wanted in a BMW 745 Li we are doing. Test spot showed that..

Instead, MF pad followed by white pad was the sweet spot...

I'll post the project later but here's the b/a

Ryan

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[Jayfro]

Yep. Test Spot for sure... orange wouldn't cut like I wanted in a BMW 745 Li we are doing. Test spot showed that..

Instead, MF pad followed by white pad was the sweet spot...

I'll post the project later but here's the b/a

Ryan

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I look forward to seeing that!


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[Coatingsarecrack]

So obviously, the part that terrifies me the most is actually using a machine DA polisher, with "cutting pads", and a "cutting agent" on my car. I do understand that technique is everything and I have been watching a lot of the swirl remover videos to fully understand Mike's concepts on section passes, overlap, and "R" motion (do I have that right?).

The basic premise is pick a small spot, use your product, buff it off, and inspect the results. Swirls still there? Go more aggressive with either a more aggressively cutting pad, or cutting agent. Swirls gone? Then you are on your way to getting your system down pat.

But how do I know that I'm not starting at a place that is ALREADY MORE AGGRESSIVE than where "I'm at"? Is it possible that using a Orange Lake Country CSS pads with 3D Speed and a DA, might actually leave scratches behind, that weren't there before??? Since Orange is where I'll be starting, I want to make sure I'm clear here.

Thanks!

I used an orange CCS with griots fast correcting cream and it was fine slow overlapping passes with 2x2 sections. If light swirls and using AIO lake country recommends great pads.

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[gatornek]

2ft by 2ft? The info I got from Mike's vids thus far is 16x16 (inches) for just a regular spot. Do I have that right? Or is 16x16 more in line with 'test spot' size?

Do I make a smaller spot for testing?

If smaller:
a) how small?
b) how much polish? (for 16x16, I was planning on using Mike's "crossed lines" on the 5.5 pad)
and C) Do I still focus on 6-8 passes?

I appreciate the handholding for the noob.

 

[Paul A.]

HD Speed doesn't "cut" in the way you might be afraid of. Nor will an orange pad, especially on Ford paint. After you've done a test spot with Speed and white, inspect the results. If you didn't get what you wanted, try Speed with orange. Are the results better? If not I don't go much further with Speed. It's a cleaner sealant product and isn't meant for medium to aggressive cut corrections.

If you've tested Speed and still want more correction, I would be changing up my product to a light compound type product. A fairly light compound or medium polish with an orange pad may just be enough to level down those scratches. Then try Speed on a white pad to then refine what the compound/orange combo left if any DA haze needs to be cleaned up.

I would do a 2 step test spot...GG Fast Correcting Cream with an orange pad. INSPECT. Then HD Speed with a white pad ON TOP of the section you just did with the FCC. Now, how does THAT look?

I do my test spots at 16-24" square. I do anywhere from 4-7 passes with Speed then wipe off. Fast Correcting Cream for about 4-5 passes then wipe off. 6-8 is fine with Speed and I would do no more than 6 with FCC. Don't worry if it's 16X16 or 24X24...basically just concentrate on a small area for a test spot. With 5.5" pads and 50 percent overlaps 16X16 is a good area.

I'm a big Collinite fan and use it sometimes over Speed. FL does not treat carnaubas well and I find them to be extremely perishable in our climate. The sun's heat, UV, and pounding rains don't allow them to last very long. Having said that, Collinite is a hybrid wax and I've seen as much as 11 months durability on a customer's daily driven vehicle. That was with monthly washes. The more often you wash it the less it remains. As Mike P. says, it depends how you "touch' the paint!

 

[gatornek]

HD Speed doesn't "cut" in the way you might be afraid of. Nor will an orange pad, especially on Ford paint. After you've done a test spot with Speed and white, inspect the results. If you didn't get what you wanted, try Speed with orange. Are the results better? If not I don't go much further with Speed. It's a cleaner sealant product and isn't meant for medium to aggressive cut corrections.

If you've tested Speed and still want more correction, I would be changing up my product to a light compound type product. A fairly light compound or medium polish with an orange pad may just be enough to level down those scratches. Then try Speed on a white pad to then refine what the compound/orange combo left if any DA haze needs to be cleaned up.

I would do a 2 step test spot...GG Fast Correcting Cream with an orange pad. INSPECT. Then HD Speed with a white pad ON TOP of the section you just did with the FCC. Now, how does THAT look?

I do my test spots at 16-24" square. I do anywhere from 4-7 passes with Speed then wipe off. Fast Correcting Cream for about 4-5 passes then wipe off. 6-8 is fine with Speed and I would do no more than 6 with FCC. Don't worry if it's 16X16 or 24X24...basically just concentrate on a small area for a test spot. With 5.5" pads and 50 percent overlaps 16X16 is a good area.

I'm a big Collinite fan and use it sometimes over Speed. FL does not treat carnaubas well and I find them to be extremely perishable in our climate. The sun's heat, UV, and pounding rains don't allow them to last very long. Having said that, Collinite is a hybrid wax and I've seen as much as 11 months durability on a customer's daily driven vehicle. That was with monthly washes. The more often you wash it the less it remains. As Mike P. says, it depends how you "touch' the paint!

Thank you. This helps alot.

For a 'test spot', I'm supposing it might make sense to 'tape it off' as Mike does in his videos. That way, I should be able to see a CLEAR line of demarcation of where 'swirls/deffects' should end and a 'buffier gloss' begins, right?

For a noob, it might make sense to use the white, and see for myself. I posted pics of the car in GLARING SUNLIGHT at the top of the thread. I think the consensus was 'orange pads'.

Carnauba doesn't last long at all down here, but you are talking to someone who was willfully slapping on a fresh coat (at least on the roof and hood, and other 'upward facing' sections) of wax, by hand, every 6 weeks or so. I'd like to get farther and farther away from that routine, but feel that I need to build up to it. Right now, its just about two things:

1) Getting the beads of water to run off my paint better. AZ Paul has been telling me its surface tension. Hence, I've been wanting to deco and clay it. But if I go that far, then I want to make sure I polish it out defects, before I slap my wax on again.

2) Removing the 'swirling/defects' on a more permanent basis. Before, I'd just use the warmth and gloss of the carnauba to 'cover them up' so you couldn't really see them. But yeah, on cloudless days at 12pm, you can see some weird stuff on my hood if its been a few weeks since waxing.

 

[gatornek]

It's an AIO and if using an AIO then you dont want to go around 63x with orange and white pads.

If using orange then white might as well use a dedicated compound and polish.

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Sorry. Can you elaborate what you mean by this? Are you basically saying I want to make my 6-8 passes and no more, when using orange/white?

 

[gatornek]

Yep. Test Spot for sure... orange wouldn't cut like I wanted in a BMW 745 Li we are doing. Test spot showed that..

Instead, MF pad followed by white pad was the sweet spot...

I'll post the project later but here's the b/a

Ryan

Sent from my SM-G965U using Autogeekonline mobile app

I'm understanding, that this is going to take some better understanding of my car's paint after a couple of test spots, and it might make sense to have multiple producgts on board. Its intresting that the 'sweet spot' sometimes isn't necessarily just a particular pad and/or particular product, but a combination of many...in serial steps.

I'm thinking I'm understanding better of what I need to do.

I wonder if it make sense to get some GG Fast Correcting Cream to have handy, in case Orange/3D doesn't do quite what I need it to do (I am going to start with 3D/White on initial 'test spot') Maybe GGFCC/Orange before I do 3D/White would end up being the 'sweet spot' for me?

 

[gatornek]

I used an orange CCS with griots fast correcting cream and it was fine slow overlapping passes with 2x2 sections. If light swirls and using AIO lake country recommends great pads.

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These are the ones I'm getting.

(5) Orange
(5) White

and a few others.

You say LC CCS Orange with Griots FCC worked well for swirls on your Shadow Black Mustang? Did you have to 'fine it out' with a lighter pad or finer polish on a subsequent step? FCC is slightly more 'abrasive' than 3D, so I imagine, I should have no trouble with Orange/3D on my car?

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

These are the ones I'm getting.

(5) Orange
(5) White

and a few others.

You say LC CCS Orange with Griots FCC worked well for swirls on your Shadow Black Mustang? Did you have to 'fine it out' with a lighter pad or finer polish on a subsequent step? FCC is slightly more 'abrasive' than 3D, so I imagine, I should have no trouble with Orange/3D on my car?

For a test spot yes 16x16. My 2ftx2ft was for regular work.

I would order both correcting cream and fast correcting cream and try both. I ended up using the correcting cream with orange. I was not going for perfection but say 80%. I could tell whoever owned before me liked their free dealer washes.

The Griots creams are very popular ang highly recommended. I did not finish out with perfecting cream as I coated my car and used car pros essence.

If not wanting to decide on what sealant to use... read about Turtle wax Seal and Shine. Should be able to get locally at wall mart/autozone and is carnauba based sealant. It really works well just don’t over do on product. Look up on The forum. You could probably top whenever you feel with a carnauba paste wax.


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[Coatingsarecrack]

If you get Griots creams start with

1. white and correcting cream.

2. orange with correcting cream

3. White with Fast correcting cream

4. Orange with fast correcting cream

2 and 3 can be interchanged. I didn’t have white and felt green wasn’t aggressive enough. 2. Was my sweet spot.

Even though we have same paint don’t just do what I did as our level of swirls scratches could be different but also I’m from Washington our environments are totally different and could affect paint differently.

Once you find a combo acceptable no need to try more aggressive.




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[gatornek]

I've learned a lot more than what I did when I first started collecting items for this 'mini-project'.

I'm going to stick with the 'all-in-one polish/sealant' 3D Speed. I think using a 'polish' rather than a compound, and a Porter Cable 7424 with both foam cutting pads, and CCS pads might be a good wheelhouse for me right now. Depending on how the intital results go for my test spot, I might just do one panel, and then possibly rethink my approach then, if I feel I have to.

Right now I have (12) 5.5" pads. (6) are Thin Pro and (6) are CCS. Im starting to realize its all about the combination of pads + machine + product + paint condition. When I thought I was dealing with 2+2=4, we were actually dealing with f(x)=x2+5x=7 LOL

My point is: there are A LOT of variables for a noob to absorb.

I look forward to this. And all its going to end up doing, is get me to look at other products and compounds and the like....to see if I can further pursue that "sweet spot" combination. Hopefully I don't spend all my money before I get there. LOL



Last side note hand holding question: Lets say I get down to the ThinPro Orange on my PC and it ends up "micromarring" my paint, a subsequent pass with the CCS pads, SHOULD theoretically remove that "micromarring" by the more abrasive pad?

 

[LSNAutoDetailingLSNAutoDetailing is verified member.]

You’re way over thinking this, which is why I suggest the PC2474 or Griots G6 and Speed.

Both very comparable machines, with small 8mm throw for learning. Initially, I only recommend the Griots, because they have a lifetime warranty, no questions asked…

And not because I met Richard Griot (super guy)!!

Use the orange CCS pads, they’re pretty awesome... as you can see they are the majority of my stash.

Rupes up top:

When I started off learning, it was on this car that I purchased to be a project car… after watching a few Mike Phillips videos, and buying some stuff, like you did…my friend who is a service manager at a Ford dealership at the time, said what’s the worst you can do screw it up? It’s just paint… And paint is paint. He said if you screw it up bring it in and we’ll fix it..

Well as you can see, I didn’t screw it up

I mentioned HD speed, because it’s going to give you an incredible outcome, it’s super easy to use, super easy to come off, has a good protection element to it, and it is the least aggressive product. CCS pads are great, and the PC 7424 is incredibly safe machine to work with as long as you do proper section passes.

Keep it simple soldier! (KISS)




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[The Guz]

I've learned a lot more than what I did when I first started collecting items for this 'mini-project'.

I'm going to stick with the 'all-in-one polish/sealant' 3D Speed. I think using a 'polish' rather than a compound, and a Porter Cable 7424 with both foam cutting pads, and CCS pads might be a good wheelhouse for me right now. Depending on how the intital results go for my test spot, I might just do one panel, and then possibly rethink my approach then, if I feel I have to.

Right now I have (12) 5.5" pads. (6) are Thin Pro and (6) are CCS. Im starting to realize its all about the combination of pads + machine + product + paint condition. When I thought I was dealing with 2+2=4, we were actually dealing with f(x)=x2+5x=7 LOL

My point is: there are A LOT of variables for a noob to absorb.

I look forward to this. And all its going to end up doing, is get me to look at other products and compounds and the like....to see if I can further pursue that "sweet spot" combination. Hopefully I don't spend all my money before I get there. LOL



Last side note hand holding question: Lets say I get down to the ThinPro Orange on my PC and it ends up "micromarring" my paint, a subsequent pass with the CCS pads, SHOULD theoretically remove that "micromarring" by the more abrasive pad?

Read these to get a better understanding. Different products but the concept is the same.

How many pads do I need to buff out my car?

Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

Thin is in...

NEW! Meguiar’s Foam Buffing Discs

Review: Meguiar's D166 Ultra Polishing Wax by Mike Phillips

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...ation-mark-your-buffing-pads.html#post1640021

Mark Your Backing Plate - Makes it easy to see Pad Rotation

 

[gatornek]

You’re way over thinking this, which is why I suggest the PC2474 or Griots G6 and Speed.

Both very comparable machines, with small 8mm throw for learning. Initially, I only recommend the Griots, because they have a lifetime warranty, no questions asked…

And not because I met Richard Griot (super guy)!!

Use the orange CCS pads, they’re pretty awesome... as you can see they are the majority of my stash.

Rupes up top:

When I started off learning, it was on this car that I purchased to be a project car… after watching a few Mike Phillips videos, and buying some stuff, like you did…my friend who is a service manager at a Ford dealership at the time, said what’s the worst you can do screw it up? It’s just paint… And paint is paint. He said if you screw it up bring it in and we’ll fix it..

Well as you can see, I didn’t screw it up

I mentioned HD speed, because it’s going to give you an incredible outcome, it’s super easy to use, super easy to come off, has a good protection element to it, and it is the least aggressive product. CCS pads are great, and the PC 7424 is incredibly safe machine to work with as long as you do proper section passes.

Keep it simple soldier! (KISS)




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Me? Overthink?? Naaaaaaaahh.....

<wife snickers in background>

LOL.

I thinkk I'm fairly clear on what I need to do and I have all the things necessary.

For all intensive purposes you did steer me towards the Griots DA in conjunction with the 3D Speed at first. I was the one that elected for the PC7424 not really understanding that it might not be as effective with the 3D as a true 'one step'. I'll work my way up to the thinpro's on my test spot and report back the results.

My next post should hopefully be the 'show' from a 'show and shine' thread.

 

[gatornek]

Ok. Here we go. It was hot as hell out there today, as I didn't get a chance to start until mid morning....way too late. But I wanted to get it done anyway.

Here is another quick pre pic I took of the hood. The "swirls" are severe.
View attachment 67558

I washed and decontaminated the car fist.

Then I clayed the car first with Mother's Clay & Detailer spray. I found the claying much easier than I thought it was going to be.

Then I set up my first test spot on top of the hood with my tape.
View attachment 67559

With the PC set to 5, and with the confidence of Mike's recommendation, I went straight to the LC White ThinPro. I figured if I marred, I had all the CCS pads necessary to buff it out. I guess it was beginners luck, because I was really impressed with the results. When I wiped off the 3D Speed to reveal what was underneath, I was like "WOW!" Not sure if the pic does it justice (test spot is on the right), but I could clearly see the difference in the sunlight, and that was good enough for me. So away I went with white thinpro's on the hood, roof, and trunk lid of my car.

View attachment 67559

I guess the biggest problem I ran into was:

1) Balancing myself with one foot, either on my rear or front window, and the other foot on a step ladder so I can hit the roof, and the middle sections of my huge trunk lid. But I got it done. At the cost of my back! LOL

2) There were times when as I moved QUICKLY to spread the 3D around, before I get into my slow passes, I kind of splattered product around some.

3) And then obviously anything that had a lip or a ledge, it was hard keeping the PC spinning.

Let me tell you, by the time I got done with the 3D polish DA process, I was just about done. I was tuckered out. And I was feeling that maybe I'd skip the LSP since the 3D is a combo sealant. But then I popped open that Collinite Marque de Elegance, and man....that stuffed smelled so good, it made the whole LSP process that much easier.

I honestly can't believe I've been using Turtle Wax CArnauba all these years when there have been products like this around. WHAT. A. PLEASURE. Like rubbing butter on my car.

So anyway, here are some result pics:

View attachment 67560
View attachment 67561
View attachment 67562
View attachment 67563
View attachment 67564

 

[Jayfro]

Looks amazing, you did an awesome job that you can be proud of! Oh the "WOW" moment...isn't it cool?


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[gatornek]

Looks amazing, you did an awesome job that you can be proud of! Oh the "WOW" moment...isn't it cool?


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It really was. I had spent a lot of time truly worried about using a DA on my car. Turns out, there was nothing to worry about.

 

[SWETM]

It really was. I had spent a lot of time truly worried about using a DA on my car. Turns out, there was nothing to worry about.

You are not alone with when have used a polisher for the first time that it's not to been worried to used. The work came out great looking on your Mustang. And this by removing a very very little of the clearcoat.

Great that you are satisfied with the 915 and it's a hidden gem in the high quality of carnuaba waxes. Many goes with the 845 and if wanting a longer longevity 476s. But the 915 has almost the longevity of the 845 so I would go with the 915 any day. Since I live in a harsh winter weather environment the 476s is a great choice for survive the winter months without any problems with needed to be topped up. And is a well liked wax for the winter protection here in Sweden. Collinite 845 and 476s and 915 is great waxes and offers you to chose which is suited to your needs. Just top it up with another layer of 915 when you want or need to. And a thorough wash and do the baggie test and if passed wax on.