2000 Red BoxsterS

Anthony Orosco said:
I use the wax (OCW) because it works great. I have been greatly satisfied with the overall look it gives me.

I have also been happy with the longevity. I get at least 2 to 3 months out of an application. I don't use it in conjunction with any other sealers, polymer or carnauba based. I use it as a stand alone.

Now the area of "longevity" is subjective for who knows if the product is still there? Beading alone can't be the determining factor, nor can slickness. A product may be still on the surface without those factors.....so it comes down to personal preference.

In regards to the PoliSeal. It is a polymer product, not acrylic (by the way, AIO has next to nil in terms of acrylic protection) with an added carnauba. The amount of carnauba added is very slight and only added so it will work with other carnauba based products.

So based on protection PoliSeal would be the better choice over AIO. I also find it less of a hassle to work with and I am finding, as have others, that it seems to clean up trim and such nicely. I don't notice any staining of trim....but this may change as I do more cars with it.

PoliSeal will also correct paint where the AIO is pretty weak, unless doing single stage oxidation removal. PoliSeal is NOT a pure polymer product but rather designed for the car enthusiast that may not have a polisher. What we found though through testing was that it makes on hell of a "one step" for both wholesale and retail detailers...both by hand and machine (rotary also).

If you want something more along the lines of a true polymer, with no carnuaba, then you may want to try my sealant. I will be getting some more beta samples by Friday of the New Year and hopefully the tweaks will fix the issues I was experiencing. If all goes well I'll need some beta testers.

Thanks,
Anthony
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I dont know that you actually answered my questions .... Not that thats wrong, but based on your many Optimum posts and clearly working with the designer on product development, I would like a more candid response. I like the polishes and the 4in1 product (god does it stink in smell however) , but find other products in the line to need refinement to move into top 10 positions especially the spray wax.

1. How do you "know" or "feel" that Optimum Spray wax is still working after the first wash. You are correct in that the beading falls off immediately, and slickness is gone also. Infact, I can name numerous QD'ers that actually offer the same feel, look, and appearance and really are not sold as a true spray wax. (we wont get into VOC regulations, and how a spray wax can differ from qd'er versus say a paste wax in relation to solvents so sometimes more is in a name versus bottle). I just dont get the "look" that you describe, it fails to add substantial gloss or reflection, and looks rather mundane IMO. What other subjective/quantatative manners do you use to gauge the product as still working ??

2. You discuss AIO versus Polyseal as I used it in description. We know infact that a acrylic based sealant is traditionally more durable (longer protection not necessarily better protection)than carnauba based products. I would argue that Polyseal and AIO are actually two very different products and I used in error. AIO is a paint cleaner with some protection matching most carnaubas when used alone. It has very little abrasive ability, but use chemical strippers as was based on a Carlack product from the 70's. Werkstatt moves into the same real development but uses newer Carlack product development and polymer technology to increase the look while matching the longevity. (it is not my product of choice, but I would clearly offer Klasse AIO to most as a top10 offering for those that must AIO)

Polyseal really seems to be more akin to Poorboys Polish w/ sealant, or in this case A polish with carnauba. You discuss staining, but I have used AIO successfully in past with no staining. I have also used it as a car soap and washed an entire vehicle with no stains and what appears to be added protection. I have also used the product alone, and seen protection for terms equal to most pure carnaubas (4-6 weeks). So I believe you offered that Polyseal used only enough carnauba to enhance or work with other carnaubas, so it is designed as a polymer hybrid ?? Thats what I was really trying to ask... I really dont personally see the need for another AIO product from any manufacturer. Why move to boutique products that specialize in each area, and then settle for an All-In-One product ?? My second part was more hidden, do you feel if Poly-seal was used alone it would outpace any of the other AIO type products on reasonably nice paint?? (Klasse, Poorboys PWS, Werkstatt, Acrylic Shield amongst others)

4. You suggested above that you dont use any combo's in your work. Does that mean you DONT use poly-seal and then OCW?? Or are you going from Optimum Polish straight to the OCW product ever since this product was developed in your personal work?? The reason I ask, is obviously using the poly-seal under OCW should enhance its durability and likely its look.... so are you using Poly-seal, yes or no ??

3. New question ... you discuss "your" new pure sealant. Is this another product Optimum is bringing to the market ?? Are you the beta tester ?? Are you involved in Optimum in more ways that just using the product ?? Anotherwords, are you bringing your own line to market or just hyping someone elses ?? I know thats a hard question, and not meant to invoke attack, but a question I feel needs answering since you offer the product in reply so often.

Again not challenging the outcome of your work (pics are nice enough) but really want to get into your head as to why you are so pro-Optimum only. Obviously as a professional detailer you want repeat business .... so your going to use the cheapest material in bulk, that looks the best, and offers the best bang for the buck. Why is that Optimum ?? Couldnt you get the same results with Duragloss Aquawax over a common cleaner wax ?? Finishkare 425 over Acrylic Shield ?? Crystal Mist over Poorboys PWS ?? Having tried numerous combo's and products over the years, it catches me off guard since our thoughts differ so drastically on at least one product in particular (OCW) and I truly value your opinion and experience.
 
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Man, what a sweet job! The car looks outstanding. I don't think anything sweeter then a red boxster. How long have you been using a Cyclo? I just got a rotary and order my pads last week. Is there any tips you can give me? I'm stepping up from a PC to rotary. Thanks for sharing your details with us. Outstanding work!
 
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1. How do you "know" or "feel" that Optimum Spray wax is still working after the first wash. You are correct in that the beading falls off immediately, and slickness is gone also. Infact, I can name numerous QD'ers that actually offer the same feel, look, and appearance and really are not sold as a true spray wax. (we wont get into VOC regulations, and how a spray wax can differ from qd'er versus say a paste wax in relation to solvents so sometimes more is in a name versus bottle). I just dont get the "look" that you describe, it fails to add substantial gloss or reflection, and looks rather mundane IMO. What other subjective/quantatative manners do you use to gauge the product as still working ??
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Well I tried to reply to this as "subjective". I personally get beading for alot longer than a week when I use OCW. I average at least 2 months on the cars I care for on a regular basis. Others claim to get longer periods while even others claim to get 2 weeks tops. What's the determining factor in this? I have no idea.......no idea why there is such a broad difference in results. You claim you don't get the "look" you desire yet I am very satisfied with the look and feel, although at first when I got my very first sample of OCW I laughed at it and pretty much made my mind up that it was junk without ever trying it.

In my work "gloss and reflection" are in the area of proper paint prep. Wax, whether it be a paste wax, polymer or cream wax, is just a sacrificial barrier between my polish work and the elements.

2. I believe you offered that Polyseal used only enough carnauba to enhance or work with other carnaubas, so it is designed as a polymer hybrid ?? Thats what I was really trying to ask... I really dont personally see the need for another AIO product from any manufacturer. Why move to boutique products that specialize in each area, and then settle for an All-In-One product ?? My second part was more hidden, do you feel if Poly-seal was used alone it would outpace any of the other AIO type products on reasonably nice paint?? (Klasse, Poorboys PWS, Werkstatt, Acrylic Shield amongst others)
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PolySeal is a paint cleaner, paint polish and polymer sealant with added carnauba. The addition of carnauba is 1) to work with other carnuaba products and 2) to add that sought after "wet look". So if you want to call it a "hybrid" I reckon that may fit.

Optimum isn't moving into boutique products. In short, PoliSeal is the result of a product developed as a quick one step for another company. David sent myself and Ron a sample, we suggested some improvements and tweaks, the end result being a true one step product. I know from my personal experience that PoliSeal will out work AIO and Poorboys PWS but I have never used any of the Werkstatt products. My partner Ron though has and he states that PoliSeal is far easier to work with and feels slicker. In terms of looks he gave the edge to Werkstatt on some colors, PoliSeal on others. Again all subjective.

4. You suggested above that you dont use any combo's in your work. Does that mean you DONT use poly-seal and then OCW?? Or are you going from Optimum Polish straight to the OCW product ever since this product was developed in your personal work?? The reason I ask, is obviously using the poly-seal under OCW should enhance its durability and likely its look.... so are you using Poly-seal, yes or no ??
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I like to mainly just seal the paint and get it done as I spend so much time polishing and trying to correct the paint. I don't want to spend another hour or more waxing and/or sealing. OCW is my main go-to sealer.

Lately because I have been doing more and more used cars for my local Porsche dealer I have turned to PoliSeal as the paint just needs to be "sellable". So instead of doing a 2 step machine polish with OCP and a rotary and then my Cyclo I can usually do a one step with either my rotary or my Cyclo.

I have layed down OCW on top of PoliSeal and they work together just fine but again it's not something I do on every car as once it's sealed...at least for me, it's sealed. FAR TOO many guys (and gals) out there are doing thier polish work and then laying down 1 AIO, 3 coats of some polymer and 2 or 3 layers of some paste wax then take pictures of the finished work in the shade and everyone sits back and "Ooh's and Ahh's" the super wet, super reflective paint. That's totally ridiculous IMHO. Just prep the paint, seal the paint.

When people state they do all that work for "durability" I kinda chuckle because these are the same people who can't seem to leave their cars paint alone for more than 2 weeks as they are always trying something new, or some new combo looking for that ever elusive "magic bullet".


3. New question ... you discuss "your" new pure sealant. Is this another product Optimum is bringing to the market ?? Are you the beta tester ?? Are you involved in Optimum in more ways that just using the product ?? Anotherwords, are you bringing your own line to market or just hyping someone elses ?? I know thats a hard question, and not meant to invoke attack, but a question I feel needs answering since you offer the product in reply so often.
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The sealant is my idea but I am by no means a paint chemist so I told David what I wanted, how I wanted it to look, to be applied, etc. He took it from there. I had samples over a year ago and while the durability was just insane it did not have any slickness to it at all and it was difficult to apply. So it was placed on the back burner for a bit because of the OCP and Hyper reformulations. Recently David had time to do some more developing and he believes he made a great breakthrough in terms of certain additives....he uses big words and stuff and confuses me....I just told him I was excited to try it out.

So *IF* the sealant works as planned (in my head) then it will be my product with the Optimum label. I will name the product and yes I will make some profit from the sale of it as will David as he designed it.

I do not get any money from any product maker although I do get, from time to time, product at little to no charge. I do have an Optimum distributorship for all of Texas BUT I just don't have the time to set it up as I would like and in truth have made about $200 last year in sales:D Pretty pathetic! So my goal is not to make money selling for anyone but rather using their products to enhance my work first and foremost. If I make a few bucks on the side, ehh...cool.

I use Optimum pretty much exclusively because they fill a wide range of need. Years ago in my "product box" I carried several Hi-Temp levelers, Pinnacle Cleansing Lotion, Hi-Temp's polymer, Menzerna IP, PG, and FP. I carried Menzerna FMJ along with 5 different paste waxes, Poorboys 1, 2, 3 and VM plus Meguiars #3, #9, some 3M. That' no lie.

I now carry Optimum Polish, Optimum Hyper, PoliSeal and OCW, that's it. I get more done in less time and save a crap load of dough plus I save alot of time cleaning up as the Optimum line creates such little mess and dust. For me it's a no-brainer.

I carry one dressing for interior (besides Leathermaster) and two tire dressings, Poorboys and Optimum's Tire Gel which is applied via air compressor and paint gun. I am also carrying right now some Sonus products but those are for testing purposes only right now for TOL.

So my "product box" is no longer a footlocker but now more like a shoe box:D It's nice to know though that not everyone thinks or works like me as that would be a boring place in the detailing world. I am not against trying new stuff as long as it is cost effective and works and I appreciate the questions, no offense taken on my side.

Hope those answer your questions, Happy New Year!
Anthony
 
thank you ... thats exactly what I wanted. I truly wanted your take on the line. I am sorry to hear the sealant coming is not yours specifically, but interesting none the less.

Have you tried the newer "polycharged" additives that the "other" guy is offering. Having scored some "under the table" I can tell you that it should kill the durability factor issue. I too have always found the durability issue to be quite ridiculous, but was something that one crowd in particular uses as it true benefit. Now with a quick mix, everyone "can" have durability equal to the other guys and truly get back to look , and outcome.

Thanks again .... I appreciate your comments and candor. With you working closely with David and Optimum , well I suspect we will all see some better products and user friendly offerings.
 
sparkie said:
Man, what a sweet job! The car looks outstanding. I don't think anything sweeter then a red boxster. How long have you been using a Cyclo? I just got a rotary and order my pads last week. Is there any tips you can give me? I'm stepping up from a PC to rotary. Thanks for sharing your details with us. Outstanding work!
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Thank You Sparkie,

I have been using a Cyclo for at least 14 years now and just love that machine. I work now closely with Cyclo and help them out in areas of testing and advice.

Tips for rotary use? Yeah, pretty much everything you read is useless.

Too many well meaning detailers out there fill the forums with bad rotary advice. They say, "always keep your pad flat" I say...Baloney! I keep my pad with a slightly open face...meaning I buff with my pad at a slight angle.

They may reply that using your pad that way will cause swirls......I say again Baloney. Swirls are micro-scratches in the paint caused by using too abrasive of a pad/product and then not properly finishing the job. No one sands down wood with 80 grit paper and then leaves it like that, why? Because it's filled with huge sanding marks. Same idea transers to paint work with a rotary. The finer the pad/product the fewer the swirls.

Don't use a "death grip from hell" on the rotary. This causes you to be stiff and slows down your reaction time....not to mention one hell of a sore arm the next day. Too many people use the handle on the rotary as a steering wheel, that's not what it's for. That handle is basically there for a place to put your other hand....OK, seriously it is used for balance, not steering. You steer or move the rotary with your whole upper body. You want to keep centered over the rotary as much as possible. Meaning you want to avoid over extending your reach as you can easily lose control of the rotary as it grabs an edge, emblem, wiper blade, etc.

Keep the pad moving, but not all eratic like.....just a nice steady pace of movement. The paint should be toasty warm to the touch after polishing, not so hot that you can't touch it, that would be "burnt toast" then :D

Go to a body shop and get a hood or door panel to practice on. Use RPM"s no higher than 1200 to start with (there is no need to go any higher than 1800 rpm's for most paint correction period).

Puposely BURN the paint on those test panels. You'll notice that as you burn paint you may also warp your foam pad....doing this will teach you want to look for in burned paint. Buff up or into edges, learn to trigger or "feather" the trigger around small and tight areas.

There is so much to learn but trial and error will be your greatest teacher......just don't learn by trial and error on someone elses paint!

Hope that little bit helps you out,
Anthony
 
Thank you Anthony, thank you so very much! This dose helps a lot! Please keep them pics coming. We love pics on this forum. I do enjoy looking at your work. Thank you again for your comments.
 
Anthony, Thanks for your rotary tips. I just detail my own cars and I have been reluctant to really use my rotary on them. I have quite a bit of experience buffing out cultured mable with it which you can also burn. I would like to get more experience using it. A couple of weeks ago I asked if any forum members had any cars they wanted me to practice on but know one came forward. Getting an old hood I could practive on is a good option. I don't even what to practice on my own cars let alone someone elses.
 
Anthony, this is some awesome advice on the rotary. Remember guys, this man has been doing this for YEARS!

Glad to have you here bro.
 
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